Time to jump to a full size machine.

[Joe Gorman]

I have been thinking about a new machine for quite a while and have decided that I will make the jump in the next week or two.

Just by reading, I have narrowed my selections to a General 25-650 or a Powermatic 3520.

Price being a major consideration, I was initially leaning toward the General; I also considered the swing and doubt I would be turning larger than 16".

There is a dealer about an hour away that handles both brands and I will be visiting the store in the next couple days.

Any opinions you folks might want to share would be appreciated.
That includes other machines I should consider... 16" swing, vs, power and Price of around 3500 or less are my needs.

Thanks Joe G.

 

[hockenbery]

Joe
Swing is always about 2-3" bigger than the biggest piece you can turn easily on the machine. while it is possible to turn an 11and 3/4" diameter bowl on a 12" lathe the piece has to be round and centered when it goes on and you have to take the piece off the lathe to move the tool rest from one side to the other. for 16" bowls you'll want a 20" lathe.

We have a General 260 and I have turned a lot on the Powermatic.
Both are good machines. I'd give an edge to the Powermatic.
THE GENERAL: has a little more room if you work close to the head stock. The tool rest moves easier, Tailstock is lighter, tool post lock is better. you have an outboard threaded spindle 1 1/8 x 8
The POWERMATIC: the tailstock locks better, handwheel is bigger.
I like the powermatic base I like to move close to lathe and having it open underneath is a plus for me. I like the powermatic controls more. Changing belt speed rangess is much easier on the powermatic.

Consider the Jet 1642 it is a good machine too. will do a fine job on bowls up to 14" diameter. That is a big bowl.
When we got the General I had to do a little grinding with a dremel on the inside of the tailstock casting to allow the ream to retract smoothly.

happy turning,
Al

 

[MichaelMouse]

Much as I hate to disagree with an AAW advisor, you can certainly turn a full 16" if the ways permit. Isn't a cinch, but can do it. You can expect to lose close to a half inch in 16 if you TDT, as the wood will distort some in drying. So if you consider your tailstock a necessity, you're pretty much limited to a dry 15 1/2 over the ways. If you can do without, you can get one of the lathes with a sliding headstock and jury rig your own toolrest, or you can get one with a rotating headstock and use the existing rest within limits while turning clockwise (in "reverse"). Expensive alternatives in both types allow a secondary toolrest point registered to the lathe and its movement.

Moving the rest from one side of the work to another or swing over toolrest is not a consideration if you turn bottom out and remount to hollow, of course. Nor is it of consequence if you swing the head of the lathe.

Which leads me to suggest the Nova 16-24-44 with the 44 option and reverse. Of course you'll have to use one speed at a time, but I think you'll find even the most rabid critics of non-VS lathes usually mention that they have no idea what speed the piece is turning, just that it seems good. Eight choices on the 1624, or infinite with good low end on a DVR. If you go to the mechanical rather than the electronic speed, you'll have about a grand extra to get some other necessities.

 

[Charles Henderson]

After endlessly researching for over a year I ended up with a PM 3520b. I might not have gone with that lathe without the incredible deal I got. I only paid $2890 and received the 18" bed extension with it. I didn't have to pay shipping either as I was taking it home with me. All together I saved roughly $1200. That means the Jet bandsaw I also bought was essentially free to me (plus extra goodies).

I had previously planned on buying the Jet 1642EVS - 1.5. I didn't find out until right before the symposium that I could go ahead with a 220 line (we had insurance issues with the 2nd line). That was the best lathe I could find that will run on 110.

I've turned on an older version of that General, and found it to be an excellent lathe, but I'm not sure it compares to the PM. It's very capable, but the PM has some definite bonuses, especially the sliding headstock.

 

[Mark Warden]

I also did alot of research before buying the 3520B.Here is a page you can compare all the specs in one place http://www.woodturner.org/resources/LatheSpecs.pdf
IMO the 3520 is in its own class it shares capabilities with lathes costing thousands more.It has the mass to handle the larger unbalanced pieces so you can go from chainsaw to the lathe if you don't have a band saw.And although your not thinking you want to turn bigger than a 16" bowl you might want to turn a square piece or winged,off center piece that you need the extra swing for.I can't tell does that General have a solid spindle the specs give a through size for the tailstock but not the headstock? It also looks like it uses a 2 piece banjo setup.Both big negatives in my book.If your checking prices goto http://toolnut.com/ they had the best price when I bought mine and great service.

 

[john lucas]

I went with the extra mass of the 3520. I had a 16" lathe and it walked while spinning out of balance pieces. The 3520 will turn an out of balance 12" piece at a much higher speed which makes roughing out bowls much more pleasurable. In fact I still added #300 of gravel to the base to help this.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I remember the upgrade from my Delta to the Oneway (my first one). Better than buying a new car.

 

[n7bsn]

Joe
The GI 25-650 was on my "short" list until I read a review that pointed out that while the 25-650 has a 1-1/4 head stock, the interior shaft is reduced to a 1 inch dia.

Another review ( in FWW) had the Nova 1624-44 as the "Best Value" and the PM as the "Best"

 

[Joe Gorman]

Well I made the jump and landed on the PM3520.🙂 IMO when side by side with the General, it became an easy decision.

Thanks for all your comments... as usual lot of good input.

 

[john lucas]

You will love it. When I made the jump the lathe was a lot more expensive than I could really justify. I gulped, bit the bullet and did it. I hate buying things on credit but I put a little bit of this on my card and sweated a lot. It's the best money I've ever spent and was worth the gamble.

 

[hockenbery]

Mr mouse,

Seems like you just restated what I said. where do we disagree???

Swing over the banjo is the limiting factor for being able to move the tool rest form one side of the work to the other with out removing the work.

As you approach the capacity of the lathe you have to get the work more nearly round before mounting and you lose the ability to move the wood to line up the grain.

-al

 

[MichaelMouse]

Joe
Swing is always about 2-3" bigger than the biggest piece you can turn easily on the machine. while it is possible to turn an 11and 3/4" diameter bowl on a 12" lathe the piece has to be round and centered when it goes on and you have to take the piece off the lathe to move the tool rest from one side to the other. for 16" bowls you'll want a 20" lathe.

We disagree that for 16" bowls you want a 20" lathe. As I said, you can do 16 (or in my case, the 3000 being a 400mm, NOT a 16", 15.75) on a 16" lathe. Wood is dry, saw is sharp, circle jig in use, can do.

For example, here is a 15.75 piece of formerly wet birch turned with heart down, where it will lose maximum dimension across the grain. The short dimension is now ~14.5, though the long is still as originally turned. If it were heart up, the piece would make 15 or more.

Final is ~14.5 as you can see from the freshly oiled final turning sitting out in the sun. Why move the rest if the bowl centers so easily when reversed? Seems to make the swing over banjo irrelevant for anything but spindles.

 

[robo hippy]

One interesting thing I discovered about my old PM 3520A was that center was actually 10 1/4 inch making it a 3520.5 inch lathe.
robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

We disagree that for 16" bowls you want a 20" lathe. As I said, you can do 16 (or in my case, the 3000 being a 400mm, NOT a 16", 15.75) on a 16" lathe. Wood is dry, saw is sharp, circle jig in use, can do.

You quote where I said "you can turn an 11 3/4 inch bowl on a 12" lathe". It can be done.
I think you give up a lot when you try to turn a 15"+ bowl on a 16" lathe.

1. the blank has to be round. Pretty much eliminates a chain saw prepared blank. I have been known to trim a mounted blank with a grinder or electric chainsaw to let a blank rotate.

2. You don't have the room to line up the grain. A repositioning of the tail stock to line up the grain may take a half inch or more from the rim.

3. Turning the rim and foot requires taking the bowl off the lathe. You can't easily turn the rim and foot if the piece won't swing over the lathe. It is difficult for me to judge the curve if I don't have the rim defined.

4. Your center post method works fine for you but lots of people like to core a 14" bowl and maybe a 12" bowl from their 16" bowls. Using the center post method adds the limitation is giving up the two smaller bowls.
When I have a great piece of wood I'd want the smaller bowls.

A 16" lathe is great for 14" bowls. You can turn larger ones but you begin to make concessions in process and lining up the grain. in my opinion most folks will find it more difficult to turn a bowl that gets within 2" of the lathes capacity.

happy turning,
Al

 

[MichaelMouse]

We disagree that for 16" bowls you want a 20" lathe. As I said, you can do 16 (or in my case, the 3000 being a 400mm, NOT a 16", 15.75) on a 16" lathe. Wood is dry, saw is sharp, circle jig in use, can do.

You quote where I said "you can turn an 11 3/4 inch bowl on a 12" lathe". It can be done.
I think you give up a lot when you try to turn a 15"+ bowl on a 16" lathe.

1. the blank has to be round. Pretty much eliminates a chain saw prepared blank. I have been known to trim a mounted blank with a grinder or electric chainsaw to let a blank rotate.

I guess you missed what YOU wrote and ignored what I wrote as well. The 20 for 16 is YOUR quote. I said nothing about 12.

As to the rest, well, you seem more interested in assertion than comprehension.

Anyone who would like some valid methods for getting pieces larger than their bandsaw's height circular within an eighth, PM me.

 

[jack richington]

Joe, how much $$$ do you have & wish to spend? If you will not wish to turn bigger than 16 (give or take ) then why not the Jet 1642..I bought mine a year ago and am pleased as punch..extremely nice for the $$$$..middle of the road in size & price and I got the 110v...I haven't bogged it yet...I just could not see spending 3500.00 and the need to hire someone to move a huge lathe into my shop..I could wire in a 220v line, but really don't need more than the power this unit uses...choices are hard with all the lathes available...but this choice I am pleased with😀

 

[Joe Gorman]

Jack, I already made the jump and bought the 3520b. I had been looking for quite a while and talking with my club members and the bbest turners were using Oneway (too many $$$), Powermatic (not as many $$$) ad General (close to the $$$ of the PM).

I went with the PM, I got it for $3100... a lot of money but I believe it is worth it. I haven't picked it up yet but it comes in one box and in 3 pieces. I will need help getting in into my shop but I will have a couple guys on hand to assist.

I haven't picked it up because my NEW SHOP wasn't ready but it is now so I will bring home tomorrow. Yeah I have been spending money like crazy... doing my bit to stimulate the economy. Bought the lathe locally and had the shop built by a local guy... both of these were real happy to get my business.

I felt it was now or never... not getting any younger and want to enjoy myself for te time I have left... now wish I did this 10 years ago.

Anyways that is my story and I am sticking to it... 😀

Cheers Joe G.

 

[hockenbery]

Joe,
you'll be happy with the Powermatic.

-al

 

[Joe Greiner]

Two Banjos

Just a tiny bit off-topic, but a second banjo could eliminate the problem of re-mounting the workpiece to move the tool rest, if there's enough real estate on the bed. And it could enable use of a longer (two post) tool rest for long spindle work. AFAIK, for most machines currently in production, such parts are available for "repairs."

 

[jack richington]

Terrific

Jack, I already made the jump and bought the 3520b. I had been looking for quite a while and talking with my club members and the bbest turners were using Oneway (too many $$$), Powermatic (not as many $$$) ad General (close to the $$$ of the PM).

I went with the PM, I got it for $3100... a lot of money but I believe it is worth it. I haven't picked it up yet but it comes in one box and in 3 pieces. I will need help getting in into my shop but I will have a couple guys on hand to assist.

I haven't picked it up because my NEW SHOP wasn't ready but it is now so I will bring home tomorrow. Yeah I have been spending money like crazy... doing my bit to stimulate the economy. Bought the lathe locally and had the shop built by a local guy... both of these were real happy to get my business.

I felt it was now or never... not getting any younger and want to enjoy myself for te time I have left... now wish I did this 10 years ago.

Anyways that is my story and I am sticking to it... 😀

Cheers Joe G.

Glad you could afford to buy the lathe you wanted and are all excited by your purchase ..this addiction is...well, terribly addicting!!! Congrats:cool2:😉😀

 

[Charles Henderson]

Congrats to you, Joe. You certainly won't be disappointed.

I highly suggest the 18" bed extension. I've been using it at the end of the bed, so I have a place to slide the tailstock. I haven't had to pull that monster off the lathe, yet. Maybe someday I'll turn something big enough to mount it in the lower holes.