Three quick questions........

[Odie]

1. Do you think it would be ok to finish a salad bowl with cured Watco Danish Oil, and do a Beale buff with only the Carnauba wax? (No EEE, or White Diamond) This would be for sales purposes, and the intent is to state the finish is non-toxic.

2. What is the cause of the dark staining on this Birds Eye Maple bowl. (see photos) It doesn't appear to be sapwood, and I'm hesitant to call it spalting.

3. What is the proper spelling..... "Birdseye", or "Birds Eye"......?

thx ko

 

[hockenbery]

2. What is the cause of the dark staining on this Birds Eye Maple bowl. (see photos) It doesn't appear to be sapwood, and I'm hesitant to call it spalting. .? thx ko

My guess is either water stain or iron stain.
Often when trees have a small hollow where a limb broke off it will fill with water.
This black water moves into the tubes and creates a verticle stain If a nail or spike or other iron is imbedded in the wood the water passing past the iron makes a black stain above and below the iron.
This is similar to the way ambrosia forms in wood as the stains are carried up and down from the beetle holes

Could be heartwood

 

[Jamie Straw]

1. Do you think it would be ok to finish a salad bowl with cured Watco Danish Oil, and do a Beale buff with only the Carnauba wax? (No EEE, or White Diamond) This would be for sales purposes, and the intent is to state the finish is non-toxic.

2. What is the cause of the dark staining on this Birds Eye Maple bowl. (see photos) It doesn't appear to be sapwood, and I'm hesitant to call it spalting.

3. What is the proper spelling..... "Birdseye", or "Birds Eye"......?

thx ko

1. Dunno
2. Looks like color change I've seen in older maple, dunno
3. Technically, should be bird's-eye, possesive+compound modifier, but that may not be the common presentation.

 

[Richard Coers]

Carnauba wax water spots very easily, wouldn't use it. Watco is mostly solvent, not sure I would use that either.
The dark staining is either heart wood or mineral streak.

 

[Odie]

Carnauba wax water spots very easily, wouldn't use it. Watco is mostly solvent, not sure I would use that either.
The dark staining is either heart wood or mineral streak.

Looking closely, the dark stain isn't related to the grain, so I'd rule out heartwood, and sapwood. I think a mineral stain is a reasonable assumption. I needed some sort of explanation, for listing purposes.......and, couldn't decide what it was exactly. I simply called it "color".

Danish oil is commonly used for salad bowls, and it's marketed as non-toxic after curing. I've been thinking of returning to D.O. after doing some experimenting with a couple FDA compliant Butcher Block oil finishs......which imho isn't as good as the DO.

As far as the Carnauba wax goes, my thought on that is to just get the bowl sold.....after that, I would suggest using mineral oil after each use. I'm really not sure if that's a good plan, at this point.....but, the Carnauba wax does seem to photograph a little more aesthetically pleasing. The photos are my only means of showing my bowls online.......so, they must be as appealing as I can make them.......😉

ko

 

[chrisdaniels]

odie don't forget what most people do to maple trees! they tap them, once you tap a tree even after you remove the tap, the sugar still flows and can discolor the wood, i'd call it sugar stain but of course it's more accurately called mineral stain.

The proper name is Bird's Eye maple, because it looks like a bird's eye, hence the bird is the owner of the eye. The largest supplier of Bird's eye maple in the world lives about 10 miles from me so i'm in there all the time BSing with him.

As for the finishing I only use danish for the artistic pieces and go with walnut oil on the utility bowls, better safe than sorry. Also the carnuba wax is my choice for the bowls people will use regularly because of it's hardness and durability but if it's a show piece renaissance wax is supposedly the best for show (gaurds against fingerprints the best).

Chris

 

[Richard Coers]

You can go ahead and use the carnauba to get it out the door, but you'll likely get a call asking why there are cloudy spots on the finish. Your choice. From Russ Fairfield on another forum, older post of course,

The problem with Carnauba and water spots are 2. If it is a pure hard Carnauba applied with a buffing wheel, there is too much wax on the surface and the wax particles are not compacted as tightly together as they could be. If the surface feels like wax and is sticky, there is too much wax. Buffing with the stiff brush will both remove the excess wax and compact it on the surface.

The only reason that Renaissance works better is that the Microcrystalline wax is a smaller particle, and it therefore compacts better than the larger Carnauba particles and there is less chance for water to get under it and ruin the gloss.

To those who don't believe that scrubbing wax with a stiff bristle brush, I can only say - Don't knock it until you have tried it. The French still use wax as a finish, and they scrub it with a brush made from Goose Quills. That is a pretty harsh treatment, but the wax loves it.

The other reason that Carnauba fails when we use a paste wax is because the paste is a combination of Carnauba, and softer paraffin or beeswaxes to make it easier to apply. You might as well be using plain paraffin or beeswax. Again scrubbing can improve the surface, but it will never get the same quality as a pure Carnauba that is applied with a buffing wheel and then buffed with a stiff brush.

 

[Odie]

Thanks for your inputs Richard and Chris........

I've heard others comment about their satisfaction with Mahoney's walnut oil finish.......and, I just put some of it on my CSUSA wish list. I'll give this a try after my next order with them.

I want to wax an African Mahogany salad bowl in the next couple days. This bowl already has the Danish Oil applied. I wouldn't want to take a chance on the water spotting issues with Carnauba wax, so will use some of the Lemon Oil Wax that I already have on hand for this one.

Is anyone using the Renaissance wax for bowls? Can this be used with the Beale buffing system?

ko

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Odie.....someone has a class action suit against starbucks over the amount of ice used in their drinks.......I would only sell decorated bowls or non-food bowls......just saying

that is an interesting and nice figure in the bowl.....do you know where it came from?????????

 

[Odie]

Odie.....someone has a class action suit against starbucks over the amount of ice used in their drinks.......I would only sell decorated bowls or non-food bowls......just saying

that is an interesting and nice figure in the bowl.....do you know where it came from?????????

Hi Charlie.......

I suspect this Birds Eye Maple bowl came from N.E.USA, but that is just a guess. I have no additional information on it, other than it was purchased from CSUSA a few years back.......

ko

 

[hockenbery]

You can go ahead and use the carnauba to get it out the door, but you'll likely get a call asking why there are cloudy spots on the finish. Your choice. From Russ Fairfield on another forum, older post of course,

We all miss Russ. He would be pleased to know he lives on in cyberspace

 

[dbonertz]

Odie, check your private messages.

Dale

 

[john lucas]

Odie as a photographer I can tell you that I used to shoot a lot of work before they put the really glossy finish on so that it photographed without that nasty glare. I've also done it the other way where I put something like Johnson's paste wax on to make it more glossy, then removed it when I was done with Mineral spirits. This was usually done for special purposes but it works if need be.

 

[chrisdaniels]

interested to hear about this solution, I have carnuba wax and I have the microcrystaline wax paste as well as the walnut oil/wax finish. that stuff looks great on bowls but it's pretty pricy so I don't like using it on anything that's not a food bowl. if that wax can be used with the bealle system I would assume you would just wipe the wax on as a last step, let it dry for a few minutes and use a buffing wheel or bowl buff that doesn't really have anything on it. like a dedicated one just for that wax?

 

[BobCoates]

Odie,
I posted a question to Watco about their Danish oil and they said it has not been certified as food safe. That was a bummer, since I had used it on furniture and found it a great product. They suggested that the butcher block oil that they sell is certified food safe. I used it on several bowls and then started having problems with it skimming over in the can and finally not being able to get it mixed. I asked them about it and they offered no help, but offered to refund the purchase price.
I had been using Tried and True danish oil (lee valley or woodcraft) which is food safe when cured and has a satin finish. I like the product.
I am also trying General finishes for salad bowls. I have finished one bowl, and started one coat on a plate. It seems to have a semi gloss and can build coats to get smooth finish. I maybe applying it too heavily since it seems to take two days before I can put on another coat. Will see after more use.

Bob

1. Do you think it would be ok to finish a salad bowl with cured Watco Danish Oil, and do a Beale buff with only the Carnauba wax? (No EEE, or White Diamond) This would be for sales purposes, and the intent is to state the finish is non-toxic.

2. What is the cause of the dark staining on this Birds Eye Maple bowl. (see photos) It doesn't appear to be sapwood, and I'm hesitant to call it spalting.

3. What is the proper spelling..... "Birdseye", or "Birds Eye"......?

thx ko

 

[robo hippy]

Well, the stain I would guess is either mineral caused, which can run the full length of the log, or can be infection or disease related and in green wood it usually smells sour.

For finish, I now use the walnut oil from The Doctor's Woodshop. He has 'micro-agregated' carnuba wax in it. He did explain how the carnuba was particles flow and bond and all that, and from my point of view it made sense. Simple version, his carnuba wax and oil mix flows on evenly and you don't need heat to make it bond and spread evenly.

True Bird's Eye, is similar to medullary rays, and they radiate out from the pith of the log. If you view it from the side, it looks like a percussion cone. Many will call all the spots in burl birds eye, and it does look similar. What you have I would call burl blisters, which when heavy. look more like the 'quilted' type of maple and very 3 dimensional looking, and maybe more figure than actual burl. Probably safe to call it any of the above...

robo hippy

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Odie,

That's a heck of a nice bowl!

I'm with John on photographing the bowl before the carnauba, because in my experience, too, the carnauba just brings out the glare like crazy. Maybe you've had better luck there. In my experience, the carnauba looks great in person and helps sell a bowl, but I've had to tell people that it can't really last.

As for foodsafe Watco DO, this is just my take. My family and I eat over 95% organic, homegrown, or wild food—so when I think "food-safe" I think no petroleum products, no mechanic driers etc. The folks I know who eat organic would say the same.

I'm just trying out the Tried & True Danish Oil and the Varnish. I'm happy with both so far. It isn't fast, but if you have the space, it seems great.

I'm a big fan of walnut oil. The Doctor's stuff is great. I like the Oil and Wax combo, too, though I haven't done extensive testing on how the carnauba holds up. The Doctor's walnut oil is very clear and keeps the wood clear. I've switched to Mike Mahoney's because it's a little darker and my woods here in Alaska are very light, and to my eye benefit from the small degree of darkening that Mike's offers. I'm also happy to order Mike's oil 2 gallons at a time with USPS flat rate shipping of less than 20 bucks.

Good questions and answers. Thanks all.
Zach

 

[Bill Boehme]

1. Do you think it would be ok to finish a salad bowl with cured Watco Danish Oil, and do a Beale buff with only the Carnauba wax? (No EEE, or White Diamond) This would be for sales purposes, and the intent is to state the finish is non-toxic.

2. What is the cause of the dark staining on this Birds Eye Maple bowl. (see photos) It doesn't appear to be sapwood, and I'm hesitant to call it spalting.

3. What is the proper spelling..... "Birdseye", or "Birds Eye"......?

1. I seem to recall that in a previous thread that Rustoleum said that WATCO finishes were considered "non-toxic" for use on furniture, but not considered "food safe" as in safe for use on products that come in direct contact with food. WATCO Danish Oil is basically a mixture of linseed oil, varnish, and Stoddard Solvent. Regardless of whether it is food safe, it isn't isn't very durable in contact with liquids. I think that there a number of better finishes for salad bowls.
2. I agree with Al. In this part of the country, white oak trees commonly have hollows or other defects where water collects and turns very dark. I see a bit if an inclusion in the dark area of that bowl. So I would guess that it might come from breaking down the fatty acid extractives in the wood. Regarding the ambrosia maple stain ... that is caused by the ambrosia fungus which is carried by the ambrosia beetle.
3. Take your choice. I've seen it as birdseye, birds eye, bird's eye, and birds-eye. However, I've never seen it spelled as "bird eyes" which seems to be more linguistically correct. Just for fun, here are some others:

• Birdseye, Indiana
• Birdseye, Utah
• Captain Birdseye the mascot of BirdsEye frozen foods
• A.K.A. Birdseye, a 2002 film starring Fred Ward
• birdseye cloth, a type of cloth with a repetitive diamond weave pattern
• Tom Birdseye, author of numerous children's books
• Birdseye maple (the reason for your question)
• the musical notation for a fermata is commonly called a burdseye

 

[Odie]

Out of curiosity, for the past couple hours, I've been surveying wooden bowls described as "salad bowls" on Etsy. I've discovered a variety of descriptions of the finishes used. Many have vague descriptions that don't really tell you what the finish is.

There are 53 pages, and 2,518 results for "wood salad bowl". I gave up after about 7-8 pages of reading the descriptions......

This is what I've found:

water based polyurethane
walnut oil + carnauba
no description (6)
flax seed oil and shea oil
bees wax and oils
no finish, bare wood
food safe bowl finish
linseed oil and bees wax (2)
bees oil
general finishes salad bowl finish
walnut oil (4)
danish oil (3)
salad bowl oil
olive oil
all natural finish
bees oil and wood preserver
food safe moisture resistant
food safe oil finish (2)
kerfs wood cream
butcher block oil
natural finish
food safe finish (2)
walnut oil and bees wax
tung oil
bees wax
salad bowl urethane

As you can see, there is a big variety of finishes these turners have used for their salad bowls. This is probably a good cross-section of the finishes used.....

ko

 

[chrisdaniels]

i'm a research nerd and have looked up the same thing you did on etsy and researched about a dozen other sites that sell wood bowls and the like. some of the articles i've read on the subject say that it's best to be as descriptive as possible but to also include a very common meaning of the same thing such as instead of putting "oil" put "FDA Certified food safe 100% Natural Walnut oil" Makes people feel more informed and for people that do eat exclusively organic they can easily identify your product and not have to look further into it if they want to know more. just my $.04 (I charge extra)

Chris