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the red in box elder

Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
27
Likes
54
Location
Elkins, Arkansas
Lately I've seen some spectacular box elder pieces offered for sale. I have always been cautioned that the red will fade in time and have hesitated to sale box elder unless the buyer was aware that the red would probably fade . Is there a process for retarding or stopping the fading that I need to know. I hope so and that someone will share it.
 
Hi Greg

I am not aware of any finish that you can use that will permanently keep the red color in box elder. There are some finishes you can use that will slow the fading, like a UV Spar finish, but eventually even that will fade.

I know of some turners who have used red aniline dyes or other colors to 'paint' over the natural red to augment the coloring. I have done it, but it looks exactly like what I did -- in other words, it looked like I used a dye or other color to 'paint' over the red. I think that if you are skilled with using an air brush, the effects would be much better.

Any box elder turnings I've sold were always with the warning that the red will eventually fade. If the buyer was still interested, I advised them to keep the piece away from direct sunlight -- good advice for all wood in general.

Hope that this helps.
 
Thanks Donna, that's basicly what I do also. I like the fact that the red in box elder is part of a natural process and will change over time. I also advise buyers to keep all wood out of direct sunlight and encourage them to enjoy the patina that a well cared for bowl will develope over time.
 
I agree with what's been said. I tried air brushing the red but it takes more practice to get it really right so it doesn't look fake. Kept in the house out of direct sunlight the red lasts quite a while. My oldest piece is 5 years or there abouts and it still looks pretty good. The red might not be as bright as it was in the beginning but I'm not sure.
I did a test a few years ago and did not find a finish that would keep the red in direct sunlight. In direct summer sun the red would fade in 24 hours with the best UV finish that I tried only extending it by maybe a day.
I am also a little leary of selling things like Box Elder, Osage Orange, and Padauk until the color changes a little. Fortunately I don't sell much of that stuff so it really hasn't been a problem. It's just something I want to be aware of and know what to tell the customers.
 
I am also a little leary of selling things like Box Elder, Osage Orange, and Padauk until the color changes a little. Fortunately I don't sell much of that stuff so it really hasn't been a problem. It's just something I want to be aware of and know what to tell the customers.

I was aware of the Padauk's tendency to brown with time, but I wasn't aware of what happens with Osage Orange........so, tell me what happens with Osage Orange.

My dentist bought an Osage Orange bowl a couple years ago.....hope I don't have to do any "splaining"......! 😱

ooc
 
Osage color shift - Not Box Elder red (...which also shifts to brown!)

I was aware of the Padauk's tendency to brown with time, but I wasn't aware of what happens with Osage Orange........so, tell me what happens with Osage Orange.

My dentist bought an Osage Orange bowl a couple years ago.....hope I don't have to do any "splaining"......! 😱

Odie:

Osage orange (Maclura pomifera) will undergo color shift from the bright orange you see following fresh cuts of the wood to a light chocolate brown, with little, if any, hint of orange when the color has finally shifted and is "stable". It becomes a brown wood, eventually. The same is true for mulberry (Morus spp.) which is in the same family (Fig/Mulberry family; Moraceae)- this wood also shifts from a bright yellowish color when freshly cut, to medium brown when the wood's color has finally "matured".

The related species known as Argentine Osage Orange (Maclura tinctoria) is said to retain its orange/yellowish color longer than M. pomifera. I've tried side-by-side tests of woods of both species, and to a limited extent this is true, however even the vibrant yellowish-orange color of M. tinctoria will eventually shift to become more brownish over a year or two, but does retain some "yellow", despite the general color deepening toward brown.

Yes, I think you might have some splainin' to do - You might want to do this AFTER your dentist is done doing any drilling or other potentially painful procedures....😉

Rob Wallace
 
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Odie:

Osage orange (Maclura pomifera) will undergo color shift from the bright orange you see following fresh cuts of the wood to a light chocolate brown, with little, if any, hint of orange when the color has finally shifted and is "stable". It becomes a brown wood, eventually. The same is true for mulberry (Morus spp.) which is in the same family (Fig/Mulberry family; Moraceae)- this wood also shifts from a bright yellowish color when freshly cut, to medium brown when the wood's color has finally "matured".

The related species known as Argentine Osage Orange (Maclura tinctoria) is said to retain its orange/yellowish color longer than M. pomifera. I've tried side-by-side tests of woods of both species, and to a limited extent this is true, however even the vibrant yellowish-orange color of M. tinctoria will eventually shift to become more brownish over a year or two, but does retain some "yellow", despite the general color deepening toward brown.

Yes, I think you might have some splainin' to do - You might want to do this AFTER your dentist is done doing any drilling or other potentially painful procedures....😉

Rob Wallace

OK, thanks Rob.....

Too bad about that......Osage Orange is such a strikingly beautiful color......sure hate to lose it! 🙁 I hope, in the least, the brown color it shifts to is pleasing.........

I meant to comment about this before, but I recently tracked a very beautiful piece of Box Elder on ebay auction. That one piece of wood finally sold for well over $200......wow! 😱 Woodturners were going crazy over that one! I wonder if everyone who bid on it were aware of the inevitable color change that will happen......????? 😕

Now that we're on this subject, is there any other woods that have dramatic color changes? Mentioned, so far, is Box Elder, Padauk, and Osage Orange.

I guess you could say all wood will have some amount of color changes, but my question is concerning woods with "dramatic" changes......

ooc
 
Odie I'm sure there are other woods. Those are the most dramatic that I've used. Purple heart will turn brown when you turn it, then it will go back to purple when UV light hits it. It will stay that way for many years but eventually goes back to brown. Padauk is kind of the same way. It's incredible looking right off the lathe but gradually goes from that almost orange color to a rich looking burgundy. It does take year or so.
Here is a quick shot of 2 osage orange pieces that I have purposely left in indirect sunlight on the kitchen table for the last 6 months. The middle piece was just freshly turned. I should have put finish on it because it gets much more yellow.
 

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My son has brought me 3 pieces of osage orange-in branch-logs- from Kan. in the last 6 months. The color is beautiful and the small pieces I have turned sold quickly. I have 3 "baby" bowls on my finishing table as I type. The colors (which are like the ones I have already sold) are more brownish rich red rather than yellow-not as yellow as yours John. Nice whitish creamy sap wood. AM I ( the wood I mean)STABLE??????? Maybe they were yellower before I put oil on , tho.
I;ll have to get back to turning mulberry again-I have some trees on my property and next door. I didn't like the color of yellow and crotch figure-too much bark. Reminded me of my grade school oak desks!!😱Gretch
 
This is the Osage Orange bowl my dentist purchased sometime in 2008. It appears to have quite a bit more depth of color than the pieces you show, John.....but, could be differences between cameras, lighting, etc.

I'm sure this is Argentina Osage Orange.....that might be the difference.

I wonder what this bowl looks like now......😕 ?????

ooc
 

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Odie-mine looks more like yours than John's except I think your picture is overly "red". John, your yellow in the annular rings is wider than mine.-(looks like my mulberry) i.e the orangy brown is much wider (say 1/4") compared to the yellow stripe(spring wood? that is 1/16" in some years. Other years are wider. Mine are wet with oil right now. Maybe I'll photo and try to post. Gretch
 
osage orange color

Here are the 3 pics I took yesterday of Kan osage orange. HAS IT (color) STABLIZED?? . It has taken me forever as I am computer illerate and camera illiterate (altho I am taking a photo course next wee for 4 sessions with a wildlife photographer)
 

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Here are the 3 pics I took yesterday of Kan osage orange. HAS IT (color) STABLIZED?? . It has taken me forever as I am computer illerate and camera illiterate (altho I am taking a photo course next wee for 4 sessions with a wildlife photographer)

Nice work, Gretch......

I wouldn't know if the color is stabilized, but how long ago did your Osage Orange trio come off the lathe?

If the color has stabilized, I'd be very happy with what color they have turned to......still has that vibrant orange color that makes this species so special.

The picture of my Osage Orange bowl was probably taken within 30 days of completion.......so, is pretty much full original color. If yours is an example of what to expect, I'm not going to worry too much about it. I believe what you see in my photo is very close to the actual color in my bowl......I don't believe I've added any red to it.

It was said that it will "brown".......but, I don't think that's an accurate description of what you are showing us........:cool2:

ooc
 
Time since turned

Nice work, Gretch......

I wouldn't know if the color is stabilized, but how long ago did your Osage Orange trio come off the lathe?

If the color has stabilized, I'd be very happy with what color they have turned to......still has that vibrant orange color that makes this species so special.


Odie-I turned them about 10-15 days ago- Took 4-5 days to "dry" (after a coat of sanding sealer, and then wt sanding to 600.) Then 2 coats of Danish oil a few days apart. After a week I put a coat of Walnut oil 3 days before these pictures were taken. The wood in the 2-3 ft log may have been cut 6+ mos before after the tree had fallen over according to my son. If you compare John L's osage the yellow bands are much larger than mine or yours. Gretch
Gretch
 
This is the Osage Orange bowl my dentist purchased sometime in 2008. It appears to have quite a bit more depth of color than the pieces you show, John.....but, could be differences between cameras, lighting, etc.

I'm sure this is Argentina Osage Orange.....that might be the difference.

I wonder what this bowl looks like now......😕 ?????

ooc

I've noticed osage browns over time, even to a greenish color. That suggests that it is the shape of the bowl that is most important. Does anyone know if black locust browns over time? I just ran into a lot of it.
 
Black Locust

Douglas,
Yes the black locust do darken too, but not nearly as much as osage orange. Funny you should ask, it is what I've been turning yesterday and today. As soon as you put a finish, oil or even just sanding sealer, it is going to look darker, first yellow and then it will keep deepening to a golden brown as it ages, I like the looks of it after a year or so, pretty much what it is going to be.
Jorge

Haz plantado un arbol?
 
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