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Tailstock Riser Block

Wyatt Holm

Wyatt Holm

Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
230
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6
Location
Southern Utah
Has anyone mounted a bed extension on the outboard side of there lathe, and mad a tailstock riser block? I have a Vicmarc vl300 and I am considering doing it but I would first like to hear some advice or instruction on how to build a tailstock riser block; and to make it line up perfectly with the spindle.
Thanks
Wyatt
 
There's been no response to this in a couple days, so here goes:

This is one of the more confusing questions I've seen in quite a while.

If you're after a lathe with a larger swing, why not just make same-thickness riser blocks for both the headstock and the tailstock? An underslung bed extension for outboard turning introduces additional complexity for support, and either way, you'll still need a higher toolpost.

I'm not familiar with the VL300 except for catalog pictures, so possibly I've misunderstood your intent. Possibly so have you. (No offense).

Joe
 
I would agree with Joe. I have looked at moving my bed extension down. I have a 3520A powermatic. I would have to drill the holes or buy a new 3520B leg standard from Powermatic. I thought about adding riser blocks to the tailstock to sit on this. It's kind of short so I wouldn't be able to turn very long stuff using the tail stock but it would give me about 30" swing. I could probably add 5" riser blocks to the headstock and tailstock and make a tool rest extension and have 30" over the bed.
I made 4" riser blocks for an old 12" lathe, out of MDF. It worked pretty well but did have a little more vibration. I think If I decide to go that route with the Powermatic I will weld up some 1/2" plate steel and then take it to a machinist to have both surfaces ground flat and parallel and to mill out some openings to fit the headstock and tailstock. this would be considerably more solid than wood and probably wouldn't be that expensive to do.
 
I've a Stubby 750 that I put 2" riser blocks on, but only for the headstock. That was mostly for oval turning, but I hadn't used my tailstock for years anyway, so I'm not worried. What are you going to turn that needs a tailstock and risers on a VL300 anyway?
 
I want to turn big bowls, like Ed Moulthrop. I also want to turn table tops.
 
However it might be accomplished, I doubt that tailstock support will find the rigidity sought for turning something really, really, big between centers. Ditto for the higher toolpost.

It would probably be better to use a faceplate of adequate stiffness (with waste block(s) if needed), and a free-standing toolpost. This is how one of our WT club members makes large bowls and platters on the club's pattern-maker's lathe. This is also substantially the same method used by the team in my earlier response (t=5419). I've attached a couple pictures (Sorry for the hand-held quality).

Regarding speed and unbalance, the VL300 may go slow enough to use a procedure like I recently used on my little old HF34706 inboard: I had a horribly unbalanced piece mounted between centers. I let it drift to identify the heavy parts, marked them, and trimmed them off with a Lancelot cutter in a right-angle grinder. When it was sort of balanced, I attached an auxiliary rotisserie drive for 5rpm turning, and continued trimming with the Lancelot. Finally I was able to use the lathe's normal lowest speed of 600rpm for normal turning. In my remarks at our club's Show'n'Tell, I said, "Before I finished this piece, it almost finished me; on a few occasions, I was ready to throw myself under the next bus that came by." Obviously I didn't, and the piece came out right good. Gallery picture pending.

The Lancelot is a miniature chain saw, with action similar to Arbortech. A chain saw would also work, and all these tools should be regarded with immense respect and caution. And some practice cuts on scrap for familiarization with their behaviors.

Joe
 

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I am no fan of freestanding toolrests. Probably because I've used them and seen them used. I want my toolrest referenced to my lathe, so when the lathe goes east, the rest follows. I believe the commercial folks at Oneway have the right idea when they reference the post to a bracket bolted on the ways of the lathe.

I mounted my banjo to the table that the old Delta was bolted on, and it worked fine.

As to the size of the pieces, probably good to remember that Ed used PEG-softened and lubricated wood and some sort of large-plan Oland tools to do the job. Believe his favorite was "the lance," if memory serves. Lots of strain. Probably more than I would want to put on a 1 1/2" spindle.

Riser blocks would certainly work as well on the tailstock as the head, where the real strains would be placed, so I see little problem there. Some lathes in the past offered them as options, and they worked well.
 
Thanks for the information, but I still have not quite got my answer yet. I want to know some instructions on how to set this up if anyone has. The idea is similar to how the oneway big turning atachment is, partly where I got the idea. I also saw a review of a PM3520 with it mounted lower, and I thought I could do a similar thing with my Vicmarc. I also have(well had) an old outboard stand I bought used(outrageous price nearly 400 dollars and it is a piece of junk, even after my modifications.) If someone could tell me, or give Ideas of how to center it.I could figure out how to build one, I have good friends and know machinists who could help. But the adjustment in aligning the riser block with the spindle is where I am somewhat lost for ideas.
Thanks in advance
Wyatt
 
I can think of two ways to do what I think you are asking for--where you have your outboard bed extension all set up, and want the tailstock to be aligned exactly with the headstock, correct?

This is just a brainstorm, I haven't actually done it so you can take it with a grain of salt.

Get one of those double-ended alignment shafts, with a Morse taper on each end--one sized for the headstock, and one for the tailstock. Or, if there is no MT socket on the headstock's outboard side, have one of your machinist friends make one with a suitable end to fit that part of the spindle.

The idea is to have the tailstock hanging in mid-air over the bed extension, while you fabricate the riser block. Start with a pre-made metal baseplate that fits the bed, and a machined base for the tailstock itself to sit on (mounted on the tailstock), with a gap between the two. You decide how big that gap is, depending on the space available and the method used to fill it in.

To fill in that gap, the two methods I can think of are:

1.) Welding -- carefully tack welding sections of plate between the bed baseplate and the tailstock plate, to ensure they stay aligned before the final full welding.

2.) Building up with a plastic setting material -- epoxy, polyester resin, bondo, or cement. Yes, cement, like the same stuff sidewalks are made of. I have seen articles in old mechanics mags from the 30's and 40's featuring shop tools with the mechanical workings encased in cement bodies. Even a precision horizontal milling machine. Was it Robert Rosand who constructed a massive bowl turning lathe in his basement with a cement body? Time came after some years of use that it had to go, he or whoever it was had to get a jackhammer to remove it. Beauty of this method is, the parts stay in perfect alignment while the cement or other filler material sets and you don't have to worry about warping and movement of the parts as with welding.

Either way, just use the same locking mechanism for the tailstock, but with a longer bolt--making sure there's a space for that when you fill in that gap.
 
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It's simpler than that. You have to cut a slot in the top of the riser to house the tailstock which has a tenon that fits into the lathe bed. All you have to do is cut the tenon in the bottom of your riser parallel to the slot in the top. This is easily done on the table saw if your riser has square sides.
If you mill the slot it's also quite easy because you can cut the slot in the top and then indicate in an alignment bar on the compound to clamp the riser to in order to mill the tenon on the bottom of the riser.
If you use the double ended morse taper you have to have some sort of adjustment such as slots or leaving a part loose until it is aligned, then tighten everything down. If you make it out of wood simply mill a piece of wood to fit the gap in the bed. Mill the bottom of the riser flat. set the tailstock and riser on the bed with the double morse tenon in place. Now put glue on the tenon part and slide it up between the bed. Let it dry and it's perfectly aligned.
 
Won't you still have to make some accommodation for locking the whole assembly to the ways? And to make the TS usable on both the inboard and outboard ways an extension of the locking bolt with perhaps a coupling nut or the added expense of a second TS would be necessary. Never having done or seen this done I'm just sort of thinking out loud.
 
You do have to redo the whole locking mechanism for the tailstock. On some lathes it's just a matter of buying a longer bolt and swapping some parts but on some that use more complicated cam operated pieces is could be a problem if you don't know a machinist.
 
Could you show me some pictures of what you are talking about John?
 
Wyatt I've been meaning to explore this with my Jet mini anyway so here are some photos of the riser I made this morning. It took about an hour to make all the parts. I glued up some baltic birch plywood and then cut it to the proper length and width for the headstock and tailstock. Then I cut dado's in both sides. One is for the tailstock to fit and the other is for a piece of wood that will fit in the lathe bed gap. I glued the wood into the riser block.
Then I drilled a 1" hole for the tailstock locking bolt. I have a lathe and mill and could have just made a new longer locking bolt to replace the original but decided instead to make a short connecting bolt because this is something you could make with a drill press, 10mm metric tap.hacksaw and a file. I drilled a 5/8" piece of steel rod and filed flats on 2 sides. Then hacksaw'd it off tapped it for the 10mm. I threaded a nut and the new connecting bolt onto the original tailstock lock. Then I cut a short piece off a 10mm bolt and inserted this thread onto the connecting bolt. Reassemble everything and I'm done.
I'll drill and glue up the riser for the headstock on another day. When done I'll have a 12" jet mini.
 

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Looks interesting John,
My riser block needs to be a lot bigger. I think I will make it out of cast iron(I have a friend who has furnace and can make castings😀). I thought that I could probably build the riser block, mount the tailstock onto it, and then before I even mount the extension on the lathe, put some sort of box or platform under it so I can adjust it left, right, up, and down until I get perfect alignment, then bolt it on. I thought that if I just put a separate clamp block and the top of the riser similar shape as the bed ways then it work fine. Well tell me what you think.
Wyatt
 
Wyatt If I build one for my Powermatic I will weld up Iron plate and then have it machined if I can't do it myself. It should be really simple for a machinist to mill both surfaces flat and cut the slot and on side and tenon on the other. That would solve all the alignment problems.
I don't think alignment is critical for this operation because all your going to be doing is using the tailstock to hold things secure.
 
A double ended no.2 Morris Taper has been mentioned for hanging the tailstrock out in midair while you measure the size of the tailstock riser you have to make. One of these is supplied in the Nova live center system, and I used it when making a riser for my tailstock. So,, if you have a friend with a Nova, you can probably borrow this piece of equipment.
 
I don't believe I would try to hang a powermatic tailstock in mid air. At best it would just sag slightly. They weigh 57lbs.
 
john lucas said:
I don't believe I would try to hang a powermatic tailstock in mid air. At best it would just sag slightly. They weigh 57lbs.
Click to expand...

I don't hardly care to lift it anymore, much less leaving it to dangle in the breeze supported only by an M2-taper. 😛😀
 
Hanging in midair might work, but my lathe has 24" swing so it is a fairly heavy tailstock.
 
Tie a rope to the hub of the tailstock wheel (not the rim, that might stress it too much) run that up to an overhead eyehook, and back down to a counterweight roughly equal to the tailstock's weight.

This crazy idea is offered up as an alternative to painstakingly measuring the exact height from the extension bed to spindle center, and the exact height from the original bed to center to find the riser height--then more painstaking measurements to get the horizontal alignment. If you happen to have the needed measuring tools that will get you to within .005" or so, then you should be set.
 
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