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Supplemental Heat in the Shop, Pros and Cons

L

Laurence Giglio

Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
45
Likes
1
Location
Mesquite Tx
If you have supplemental heat in your shop, what do you use, what do you like, what dont you like and what would you have done differently?

I have an insulated shop including walls, ceiling and an insulated garage door, but there is no added heat. Lots of times in Texas, we dont need added heat in winter, but since my days at the lathe are limited, I want to take advantage of every moment I have before I start taking pain meds when my time at the lathe will end. To that end, I dragged out my 25 year old Kerosun kerosene heater today and fired it up. It will get toasty in about an hour, but I am thinking of adding something more permanent, either ceiling mounted propane or a natural gas heater. I have access to NG lines and exterior wall and/or ceiling for venting. Electric units are not being considered.

Pros and cons to each? If I use the propane system, I would have to add large 30 pound bottles since I dont have room to add a larger tank. But then that sort of works in that its a pay in advance system. A NG line runs through the garage so that would be the better option. Any help here from yuse guys on this one?
 
You are talking heating systems that put their exhaust IN your shop?

Not my first, or even second choice.

Besides putting CO2 and H2O in the shop, they also have a flame, in the same space as what ever finish you are using.

I would only consider a heating system that doesn't "combust" in the shop.

I use electric heat, I have the funds set aside to switch to a "mini-split" heatpump (so I also have A/C), but haven't done it yet.
 
If I had your situation, I’d go with a high-efficiency natural gas unit, no question. You’ve already got the supply system in place and the cost to operate is the best option.

The kerosene burner puts a lot of moisture in the air which may lead to rusting problems on your tools. Whatever heater you put in the shop should be vented to the outside - carbon monoxide headaches are horrible and I’d assume dieing from CO poisoning is no picnic either. Plus Kero is very expensive over time. Propane: unless you have a large storage tank, that too will be expensive.
 
I have a small electric oil filled type heater in my shop. It does keep it comfortable at around 60 even on our cold days (here that means freezing/32 degrees or so) running on fairly low temperature settings. I would not want any flame any where near my shop, or anything that would exhaust into the shop. You may want to consider that your insulated garage door is really very poorly insulated as there is metal that runs from outside to inside, and that transmits cool or heat. I removed mine, or at times put a bunch of moving blankets over it. That made a big difference. If you have the money, there are a lot of electric units that heat and cool, and can be pretty efficient.

robo hippy
 
n7bsn said:
You are talking heating systems that put their exhaust IN your shop?

Not my first, or even second choice.....
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The old time unvented space heaters did put carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and water vapor in the air, but the modern vented heaters send the combustion byproducts to the outside. My home uses natural gas for the heating unit of the central HVAC system. However it is cheaper and less trouble in the shop to use electric heaters so that is what I have and it works well. I use the Vornado thermostatically controlled heater which is 1500/750 watts and has a small digital display that allows you to set the temperature as well as reading the room temperature. I like them so much that I have a couple for the garage in addition to one in the shop. My shop is well insulated and one heater is sufficient to maintain a comfortable temperature.
 
I will look at NG units that are vented outside and a unit that even gets combustion air from the attic. The propane bottle type that sit on the bottles are inexpensive but they put water vapor into the shop. As robohippy said, while the garage is insulated, tight it isnt. The garage door is loose since its an electric opener kind. So water vapor will get dried out by the colder temps that filter in when the unit is off. But thats why i am looking at vented units. I will search some more. Long range winter forecast for Texas is drier and warmer winter. Maybe this week is the coldest we will get, but I need to stay turning as long as I can.
 
I am in the same situation, upgraded the air conditioner a few years ago to plumb into the shop. With the upgrageded door, I am at 60 with it being 37 outside (today). Still manageable, but it is easier to take off clothes than add for warmth when it comes to turning.
Summer, I have the door open up to the 90s then close the door and try the house central air, but turning in the winter don't like to have jackets on to turn, the ramifications of catching the clothing aren't worth it.
I have a propane heater (ceramic) for winter that I store in the attic until needed and it works well. This is combined with the house heater. But if I had the option I would add a Modine hotdawg heater for winter. When I did my research it seemed the best option. Not terribly expensive. In my area when you plumb into the NG it costs $250 for a pressure test plus the plumber.
For me it wasnt worth the cost, but for you it may be.
I guess if I didn't have to pay the cost for the test, it would be worth it.
The other option would be to go with a combo unit that heats and cools, might be the same cost
 
When I built my shop, I insulated well. In the winter, have an small electric heater that keeps the shop warm. Did have a wood burning stove to heat with and burn the scraps, but did away with it and in it's place is a medal lathe/milling machine. 😀 Also added 1 inch Styrofoam to the roll up garage door on the west side of the shop, after doing this had to adjust spring tension for the little added weight of the foam. And put foam stripping around the door opening inside of the shop to make it a tight fit so I wouldn't loose my heating in the winter or cooling in the summer.

Gary
 
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I have a small (3' high x 18" deep x 3.5') natural gas unit in my shop. The flame is run inside a contained unit and the air of the shop is forced around that unit. There is a 3 to 4" hole in the wall that is the air intake and exhaust. I believe it is made by Empire....but it has been in use for 12 years and I do not remember exactily. My shop is 24'x40' and is totally insulated and the heater will run you out if you forget it is on. Really a nice heater and no chance of burning "dust" or fumes from inside the shop. Very efficient.

I found out about it from an article in Fine Woodworking in the late 1990's or so.

I was going to put in a woodburning stove, but decided the open flame was not good in the shop and it took up a lot of room due to clearances needed.
Good luck.
Hugh
 
Alternate

I have an electric heat pump. Works well in the south. As to Robbo's mention of the energy bleed on metal garage door is correct. My exception to this is my door was not insulated. I went to a foam supply shop and got 1 1/2 inch thick styrofoam. I cut these to fit into the spaces between panels and glued in with construction adhesive/ What a difference. Not as good as a wall but much better than it was.
 
I too have my lathe in my unheated but well insulated garage and have been pondering this same question, but unlike most of you, I'm in Montana. I have found, the single best, easy, cheap aid to turning in cold weather, is a stocking cap. Like they told us in the Boy Scouts, "If your feet are cold, put on your hat." The hat adds about 10 degrees to the comfort range. (but I'm still saving my spare change for a gas heater with an enclosed burn chamber.)
 
Gerald Lawrence said:
I have an electric heat pump. Works well in the south. As to Robbo's mention of the energy bleed on metal garage door is correct. My exception to this is my door was not insulated. I went to a foam supply shop and got 1 1/2 inch thick styrofoam. I cut these to fit into the spaces between panels and glued in with construction adhesive/ What a difference. Not as good as a wall but much better than it was.
Click to expand...

Basically the same thing I did to the garage door to my shop, really helped. That and weather-stripping the door trim.
 
Dean Center said:
I too have my lathe in my unheated but well insulated garage and have been pondering this same question, but unlike most of you, I'm in Montana. I have found, the single best, easy, cheap aid to turning in cold weather, is a stocking cap. Like they told us in the Boy Scouts, "If your feet are cold, put on your hat." The hat adds about 10 degrees to the comfort range. (but I'm still saving my spare change for a gas heater with an enclosed burn chamber.)
Click to expand...

Dean, I've spent too may winters in Montana and more so Bozeman to even consider being in the shop in Dec/Jan when the high for the day is -30.
 
here in Northern Ontario the heating Season starts mid sept and winter is upon us from mid November. I use to heat my shop by kerosene before I got back into wood working and every that could rust did and pretty bad. Since returning to wood working I installed a wood pellet stove. I went the extra mile and cost and installed a vent kit that allows the stove to pull the combustion air from out side. It has worked well for me. At $6.00/ 40 pound bag in the spring and fall a bag will easily last week and in the middle of winter it cost $3-4 /day
 
I should have mentioned my shop is only serviced by 40 amp so electric heat is not an option. and with a 3 mile water crossing there is no natural gas and propane would be to cumbersome to haul in and out
 
wood heat

My shop is a 12' x13' walled off portion of the garage, which also contains the wifes pottery room. No cars! I use an air tight wood burner with certified chimney & it works great. I even have a fan to blow warm air into the pottery room. Winter temps generally around 0 to 10C and at 10 degrees it is shirt sleeves in 15 minutes or less.
Blank trims add up & burn well.
 
n7bsn said:
Dean, I've spent too may winters in Montana and more so Bozeman to even consider being in the shop in Dec/Jan when the high for the day is -30.
Click to expand...

Ralph, I can't tell you how much I hate 38 degrees and rain. You can't DO anything outside and the cold just burrows into your bones. With snow, you stay dry and go play. If it's been below 0 over night, you'll get sunshine the following day. You moldy coastal types can't imagine how much sunshine warms you, but the first Spring day it's sunny and 50, the local college students will be out sunbathing. :cool2:
 
Shop Heat and Air Condition

Check out a mini-split air conditioner and heater. They are wall mounted units that do not require any duct work. Fan inside. Compressor outside. I installed a Fujitsu 18,000 BTU/hr cooling unit in my shop. It's a heat pump system. Keeps the shop cool in the summer and warm in the winter. It's supper efficient. SEER = 19.2. You can check them out at http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/wallmounted_landing.htm. There are other brands, but I found Fujitsu had the product that met my needs. - John
 
I use either Propane or Kerosene in my shop. Most people don't like the smell, doesn't bother me. I keep the floor clean 3 feet around either one of them and have never had a problem. I use both because it's a pain to drive in to town to get more Propane so I keep kerosene handy. Sometimes my local places run out of Kerosene so It's handy to have the propane.
Neither one is what I'd really like. I'd prefer a good heat pump but monetarily that isn't going to happen in this shop. Maybe the next one.
I did look at heating with wood but my insurance company said no. Turns out now I have so many tools I don't have the space to put a wood heater anyway. If I get a bigger shop I will heat with wood even if I have to go looking for a new insurance agent. It just makes too much sense since it's easy to get free wood around here. At least if you have a truck and chainsaw.
 
Dean Center said:
Ralph, I can't tell you how much I hate 38 degrees and rain. You can't DO anything outside and the cold just burrows into your bones. With snow, you stay dry and go play. If it's been below 0 over night, you'll get sunshine the following day. You moldy coastal types can't imagine how much sunshine warms you, but the first Spring day it's sunny and 50, the local college students will be out sunbathing. :cool2:
Click to expand...

I have some old photo's (taken when I lived in North Hedges Hall) of some young ladies sunbathing on a snow-drift. Some more taken of the tennis courts with 12 ft piles of snow and people play tennis....
Of course it was in the low 80's (we had three feet of new snow right before Easter, then it got warm, real warm).

My dad told a story about when his father moved out here from Montana, writing back about all the crazy people out doing things in the rain. A year later, so was my grandparents. Just like (well anywhere) you adjust and realize that you have to do things in the "normal" weather.

I do miss real spring, but I don't miss real winter.
 
I use a small electric heater of 1500 watts. When the shop gets warm, I shut it off as the heating element could collect dust. My shop is almost a one car garage. I have split lines- one for lights and small electric tools. The other is for the bigger things like lathe, TS, planer. I don't run the big stuff at the same time. 40 amps should be OK- just watch what you run. If you wanted to get bigger, have a 240V line run for a larger space heater.
 
John you mentioned

I did look at heating with wood but my insurance company said no.

I don't know about the USA but in Canada and wood burning pellet stove is considered the same as a gas fireplace and uses the exact same venting and exhaust fume do not exceed 300F. I had not problems with the insurance

PS how do you do quotes
 
let there be heat

My shop is 15 x 18 about half of the garage- attached to the house and well insulated. I have settled on a 4400 watt 220v portable heater. The garage never drops below 40 or so even on sub zero days without the heater and the heater gets things warm enough to work, 65 or so, in half an hour. I'll flip it on when I get home from the 925 and by the time I kiss the wife, scratch the cat and change my clothes it's starting to get comfy. I figure it costs me 40 bucks a month or so in the cold months. Money well spent for me.....
 
I am leaning towards a Mr Buddy propane style heater, as its cost is low, and there is no installation costs. Considering its for no more than two winters, it offers portability that my wife may use in the futuire if she moves her leather and other crafts towards the garage when i am gone. The considerations of adding water vapor to the garage using propane is there, but with the wide 16 foot garage door and the draft that it has since its a loose fit I think would disapate the mositure to levels no worse than north texas spring time humidity. Besides in winter the outside air is much drier at the outside temps, and when the two mix, the garage moisture should get soaked up. I keep the lathe ways waxed. Yeah, in a longer term situation the combined Fuji wall mounted heat pump allows both heat and cooling in a single unit. But its not a long term I have.

I always thought of the wood burning stove as a way to go, since us turnings do generate a lot of scraps. But that would require too much room that I dont have.
 
Vornado

Hi, I'm thinking of putting an electric heater in my two car partially insulated garage here in southeastern Pennsylvania and I've seen that several people talk about Vornado. Does anyone have experience with them? There are a number of models - should I go with the largest?

Andy
 
I have about five or so of the Vornado heaters (I've lost track). I have one in my small shop and two in the 3 bay garage. I leave them on 24/7 for several months each winter. The model that I like is in the link that I posted above. I also have one of the kind that doesn't have a display that shows the set temperature and actual temperature -- It costs less and is OK once you find a comfortable setting on the dial.
 
I have a Modine Hot Dawg ceiling mounted heater. I went with the closed combustion version so I don't have to worry about fumes and an open flame. I use propane as my fuel source, but I believe it also comes in a Natural Gas version. I use less than 160 gallons of fuel a year (in Massachusetts) keeping a minimum tempurature of 50 degrees in a 1000 sq-ft well insulated detached shop.

Peter
 
I live in northern Michigan so below zero temps are quite common in winter. I know that my solution isn't practical for everyone especially those of you in the south but I have an outdoor wood furnace that I use for my main heat in the house. It circulates hot water from the furnace to the house and then a radiator type unit pulls the heat from the water and circulates it as forced air. My wood burner sits between my house and my workshop so I branched off another line to my shop. I had an old furnace that I kept when I upgraded the one in the house and I used that to put the heat exchanger in. My shop is 30' x 30' and even on sub zero days it never gets below freezing even with the heat off just because the hot water is continually circulating. I just prop the vents open and there is a natural flow of air past the exchanger. Turn the blower on and in five minutes you are in your shirt sleeves. I cut my own wood for heat and I really don't see much difference in the amount that I use to heat my shop also. The added bonus is that there is no flame or fumes.
 
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Richard, an OWB is hardly a solution for adding a little heat to a chilly shop. Very expensive initially, especially if you put tubes in the floor like I did. That being said, I'm about to feed mine and get a big smile on my face when I go into the 75 deg. shop.
 
I went around about my options for heating my shop (after it was insulated and decked). Wood heat would be the cheapest because of my axis to firewood, but in the time is would take to heat up the shop (15x30) I would be out of time to turn or do what ever I want to do out there.

I thought about propane, since we don't have natural gas, but could imagine the expense to trench in a 300' line to my tank or having to constantly change BBQ bottles. So that was out.

I ended up buying a hang on the wall electric forced air furnace off of eBay. It doesn't take up a bunch of space and since it was a 10,000 btu unit with 2 separate coils, I just unplugged one of them and now it's a 5000 btu furnace with a spare coil! I went ahead and ran 3 vents with flex duct into the attic area, but I could have just lowered it and let it blow out the top. It also has a filter and an AC coil pre-installed (if I ever move from a window unit AC to a condenser)

I keep the thermostat set at 50 or so and when I go out there I bump it up to 65-70 and within 10 minutes it is perfect out there. Get ready to leave and it's bumped back down to 50. No flame, no fire. It works very well and I am glad I bought it.
 
Supplemental heating

Laurence, you mentioned 'no electrical', I am not sure why but it is an ideal low cost option. I live in Arkansas with about the same weather conditions as you and also have an insulated 2 car garage for workspace. For the past 15 years or more I have used a 4 ft. long 220 volt radiant heater suspended from the ceiling near the back wall to more than amply heat my shop. Radiant heat warms the object, not the air, floor included. No flames, odor, fumes, or any combustible items to mess with. Heat is instant with a flick of the switch, very low cost of operation, and virtually no maintenance, no moving parts etc.

I urge you to look into this for your winter enjoyment. A good place to start is: www.fostoriaindustries.com,,, Fostoria Industries, 1-800-495-4525. Also TPI Corporation, 1-800-682-3398.

Hope this will help you, Clint Merrill
 
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