• January Turning Challenge: Thin-Stemmed Something! (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Scott Gordon for "Orb Ligneus" being selected as Turning of the Week for January 20, 2025 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Steady rest for hollowing

Breck Whitworth

Breck Whitworth

Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
325
Likes
737
Location
Gulfport, MS
Website
www.woodtreasuresbybreck.com
I want to know if anyone has a set of good plans for making a steady rest for hollowing and a source for good wheels for the jig? Any experience from those who have made or used one will be appreciated. I have looked at the carter jig for about $359. and the Robust one for about $450. These are a little too expensive for me without saving up for a while. I have a PM 3520B lathe and am handy with making stuff. What I don't want is junk nor do I need a top of the line piece of equipment.
 
I am in the process of designing one myself. I am an electronic/mechanical engineer. I will be sharing the plans when I am done. Trying to target < $100 but could go to $150, but it will be very well build and easy to use.
I found some nice steel rings from McMaster-Carr that are easy to modify to get the outer hoop of the center steady. The rest can be made from aluminum extrusions that you can order pre-cut from Misumi for the arms and use the track nuts to connect and use for clamping the arms.

Rings:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#duct-rings/=phtby2

Pre-cut extrusions:
http://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302369620/?KWSearch=aluminum+extrusions
 
you can buy the wheels directly from one-way, same as on their bowl steady, they leave no mark that can not easily be sanded away, much easier on the wood than skateboard wheels

in fact, their bowl steady works fine for hollow forms, the wood is supported at the point of cutting
 
Last edited:
This thread isn't about how to use a steady rest for hollow forms, but if you build your own, it doesn't come with instructions. Probably the most important thing about their use is that when setting the wheels to make contact with the wood, they should be set so that they are in good contact, but they should be exerting as little force as possible onto the wood -- ideally just a couple ounces. If the wheels are set so that they are pressing significantly against the wood, it will create more problems than their use is intended to prevent. If pressure is applied by the rollers, then it will tend to deform the wood slightly as it rolls past and this increases as the wood gets thinner. The deformation leads to vibration which makes the hollowing cutter chatter on the interior and it is a snowball effect of things going downhill from there. Also, when hollowing, run the late at low speed. I use less than 500 RPM and sometimes less than 100.
 
Bill Boehme said:
This thread isn't about how to use a steady rest for hollow forms, but if you build your own, it doesn't come with instructions. Probably the most important thing about their use is that when setting the wheels to make contact with the wood, they should be set so that they are in good contact, but they should be exerting as little force as possible onto the wood -- ideally just a couple ounces. If the wheels are set so that they are pressing significantly against the wood, it will create more problems than their use is intended to prevent. If pressure is applied by the rollers, then it will tend to deform the wood slightly as it rolls past and this increases as the wood gets thinner. The deformation leads to vibration which makes the hollowing cutter chatter on the interior and it is a snowball effect of things going downhill from there. Also, when hollowing, run the late at low speed. I use less than 500 RPM and sometimes less than 100.
Click to expand...

Thanks bill since my new articulating hollowing system from Monster hasn't arrived yet I really do appreciate the advice.
Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond: John I believe I will use the last set of plans you sent, that system looks the best to me and the angle flange is still available at a reasonable price, and I have I pray just enough experience working with metal to build this.
 
C Style Steady

Hey Breck.
I don't have plans but here is a link to the one I made.
I wanted to make one that wouldn't interfere with the travel of a laser along the edge. With a solid one, that I made earlier, I was in the dark as far as it blocked the laser for about an inch or so and had me guessing there so this is what I came up with.
I'm not sure what the spindle height of your lathe is but I bought the wheels from Lee Valley and they turned out to be too large for my 16" Oneway. I wound up going to a thrift shop and buying a pair of roller blades which have smaller wheels giving me the ability to support larger diameter work.
Whatever way you go good luck. My steady works so well that while turning I sometimes forget it is even there.

http://woodbowlsandthings.wordpress.com/2012/12/
 
Pete Blair said:
Hey Breck.
I don't have plans but here is a link to the one I made.
I wanted to make one that wouldn't interfere with the travel of a laser along the edge. With a solid one, that I made earlier, I was in the dark as far as it blocked the laser for about an inch or so and had me guessing there so this is what I came up with.
I'm not sure what the spindle height of your lathe is but I bought the wheels from Lee Valley and they turned out to be too large for my 16" Oneway. I wound up going to a thrift shop and buying a pair of roller blades which have smaller wheels giving me the ability to support larger diameter work.
Whatever way you go good luck. My steady works so well that while turning I sometimes forget it is even there.

http://woodbowlsandthings.wordpress.com/2012/12/
Click to expand...

Pete, Thank you because a good friend who has been doing hollow forms for quite a while also mentioned to me the blind spot that most steady rests create for the laser. Your idea prevents any conflict with the laser. I will attempt to build one that incorporates your idea using the basic design I got from David. Everyone here has been great. Seriously thank you all!
 
The laser arm on the Monster system can be adjusted vertically. This will allow you to run it under the closed ring but still over the workpiece. Shouldn't be an issue.
 
Pete Blair said:
Hey Breck.
I don't have plans but here is a link to the one I made.
I wanted to make one that wouldn't interfere with the travel of a laser along the edge. With a solid one, that I made earlier, I was in the dark as far as it blocked the laser for about an inch or so and had me guessing there so this is what I came up with.
I'm not sure what the spindle height of your lathe is but I bought the wheels from Lee Valley and they turned out to be too large for my 16" Oneway. I wound up going to a thrift shop and buying a pair of roller blades which have smaller wheels giving me the ability to support larger diameter work.
Whatever way you go good luck. My steady works so well that while turning I sometimes forget it is even there.

http://woodbowlsandthings.wordpress.com/2012/12/
Click to expand...
Peter, your steady is a beaut….. I am going to have a go at it.
Thanks for posting.
 
Steady

Hey Mike and all who like my design.

Thanks for the comments.

There are a couple of things I would do differently if I was to rebuild my steady.

I would, as Mike suggests, rotate the wheel locations a little to put one wheel closer to the centre height of the lathe. BUT I am not sure that the purpose of a steady is to support the turning at the cutter but more likely to provide general support to minimized vibrations.

The second change I would make would be to have the 'foot' support, that is above the ways much shorter on the tail stock side. I don't think I am explaining this well but what happens when I use my Kobra is that after I get the hollowing done near the top I like to move the Banjo as close as I can to the turning. At present, the width of my banjo at the ways prevents me from getting the rest as close as I would like, unless I move the rest toward the head stock. Make sense?

The one other change I would make would be to have the slots for the sliders that hold the wheels on the tailstock side of the steady. This again allow me to get the wheels a little closer to the tailstock.
 
Pete do you find the three large wheels work better & have you considered smaller wheels to allow a larger hollow form, and was the 3 wheel plan because of the open area instead of 4? Just curious since I am in the researching stage. Sorry about all the questions but if you don't know something it is best to go to an experienced source to find out.
 
If you are wanting something to dampen vibrations, then I suggest what John Lucas has recommended -- use rubber bands around the turning. I don't know if Rockler Hardware still carries them, but I have a bag of really heavy duty rubber bands that I bought there for holding odd shaped glue-ups. They are about 5/8" wide and much thicker than a standard rubber band. I don't see a great need for a steady rest for hollow forms under about eight inches tall and a diameter under six inches.

A steady rest is primarily for supporting tall and/or large diameter hollow forms. They do provide some vibration damping, but it can be counterproductive to try to stop vibrations by increasing the wheel pressure against the wood.

Things like lathe speed, diameter, wood thickness, diameter and height of the turning, and cutter force all contribute to the vibration frequency and amplitude. When the wheels of a steady rest are also considered, things can get rather complicated. Obviously, the force exerted on the wood by the cutter is the primary cause of vibration, but if one or more wheels are exerting significant force against the wood, they are also contributing to the vibration. With light force they basically act as snubbers, but with heavy force they may in some situations actually add to the amplitude of the vibration.

From an engineering perspective, avoiding a design that contributes to "standing waves" is one way to help reduce vibration problems. Without going into a long dissertation on the subject, standing waves are most likely to occur and be reinforced when a structure is supported at equal intervals or intervals that are even-harmonically related (meaning multiples of 2). I have noticed that most steady rest designs, whether commercial or home built have the wheels spaced at equal intervals -- usually 90° or 120°. I don't really see a problem with that, but I believe that they might be a bit more effective as vibration snubbers if the spacing were to be deliberately made so that they do not support standing wave conditions.

With respect to an earlier comment about locating a wheel position close to the cutter location, I think that having the wheel located 30° to 45° away might be just as, if not more effective.
 
"standing waves"......interesting

i not being an engineer, have never heard of this.....i do find that my one way single point bowl steady (adjustable 2 wheel--one point) works better than my homemade 3 wheel plywood contraption

most likely because of "standing waves", never knew why, just that it was so, thanks Bill
 
steady as she goes

I had the guys where I work cut me a 16" ID, 20" OD disc out of 3/8" steel, along with five 8" pieces of 1-1/2 x 1/4 flat stock 9" long with nice long slots for adjustment. Nice to have an industrial laser outside my office door and a bunch of CAD geniuses upstairs. 🙂 I trimmed a flat spot on the disc and welded a piece of 1/2" steel to form the base and made a block to fit the bed on my 1640. I used skateboard wheels for the rollers. It seems to work well for me and the 5 spots give me adjustment options. I seldom use more that 3.
 
You have to be careful if you use in-line skate wheels, especially used ones. The can be very soft compounds. Get the hardest ones you can if you insist, but guys like Steve Sinner will tell you they are too soft. He uses a very hard plastic wheel.
 
Just me

Breck Whitworth said:
Pete do you find the three large wheels work better & have you considered smaller wheels to allow a larger hollow form, and was the 3 wheel plan because of the open area instead of 4? Just curious since I am in the researching stage. Sorry about all the questions but if you don't know something it is best to go to an experienced source to find out.
Click to expand...

Hi again. My comments are not based in engineering or science just my own humble experience.
I used 3 wheels because of the opening but I don't see any reason not to use more wheels if they don't interfere with the laser arm or where it falls off the piece. I noticed no difference between the larger (Lee Valley) wheels and the roller blade wheels. I don't production turn and have not noticed any problem with soft wheels. In fact they tend to mark my turnings a little even with light pressure I would be reluctant to try hard wheels which I would 'guess' might compress the wood fibers more. The rubber band idea seems really smart. I'm gonna try to find some.
 
Pete Blair said:
... I used 3 wheels because of the opening but I don't see any reason not to use more wheels if they don't interfere with the laser arm or where it falls off the piece.
Click to expand...

I don't think that there is much difference between using three or four wheels. With four wheels there would be two wheels directly opposite each other and since we don't have a good way to make the forces exactly equal that might be a situation comparable to the reason that a three legged stool often works better than the four legged kind. Something to think about and scratch your head anyway.

Pete Blair said:
... I noticed no difference between the larger (Lee Valley) wheels and the roller blade wheels. I don't production turn and have not noticed any problem with soft wheels. In fact they tend to mark my turnings a little even with light pressure I would be reluctant to try hard wheels which I would 'guess' might compress the wood fibers more.
Click to expand...

I would think that the perceived advantage of larger wheels is that they would be turning slower. The disadvantage might mean that the maximum diameter of a hollowform is less depending on the design. Whether this means anything is more reason for head scratching.

I have the Steve Sinner hollowing rig and the Robust steady rest. The wheels on the Sinner steady rest look like they are harder than those on the Robust steady rest. The wheels on the Robust sort of resemble industrial grade skate wheels. Brent English assured me that they are NOT skate wheels. The bearings are higher quality, the "rubber" is harder, and they are a bit larger than skate wheels.

I attended a demo by Steve Sinner at SWAT a couple years ago and one thing that he suggests is to have a slightly raised ring about 3/4 inch wide at the largest diameter of the hollowform (the wheels should always set to run at the largest diameter). The raised ring only needs to be about 1/32 inch or even less and it is easily sanded away after the hollowing is finished. That should take care of any skid marks or other marks left by the wheels.

I'm not convinced that the small interruption to the laser beam caused by the steady rest is a problem. With some large steady rests such as the Robust, you might even be able to position the laser inside the ring -- depending on what you are turning, of course.

Pete Blair said:
... The rubber band idea seems really smart. I'm gonna try to find some.
Click to expand...

I could not find them on the Rockler web site, but it looks like Woodcraft carries something similar:

heavy duty rubber bands
 
Rubber Bands

A time-honored expedient for rubber bands is inner tubes, cut across the torus. Usually more resilient than real rubber bands anyway. Adjust the width for strength and stiffness. Use car or truck inner tubes for large sizes, bicycle for smaller. In between, use a bicycle tube cut on the bias, with fairing curves at the entry and exit of the cut.
 
Trailer inner tubes are cheap and come in various sizes. Something else that I've never tried, but have thought about in the past is to cut long rubber rings around the circumference of an inner tube and make several wraps around the turning. Trouble is that I never have an inner tube handy when I think of using that trick.
 
Last edited:
Bill Boehme said:
..
I attended a demo by Steve Sinner at SWAT a couple years ago and one thing that he suggests is to have a slightly raised ring about 3/4 inch wide at the largest diameter of the hollowform (the wheels should always set to run at the largest diameter). The raised ring only needs to be about 1/32 inch or even less and it is easily sanded away after the hollowing is finished. That should take care of any skid marks or other marks left by the wheels.
Click to expand...

That is how he can get away with harder wheels. If you don't do this (a raised band then cutting it off flush in your finishing process) then you get crushed fibers which will stand out proud when finished, or you get rubber embedded in the wood that will interfere with your finish, potentially.
But if you are using a laser, you also need to compensate for the raised band of wood.
 
John Nesmith said:
Can you explain the rubber band technique please?
Click to expand...

It is pretty simple. Just get some big fat rubber bands and wrap them around the exterior of a hollow form while hollowing the interior. They are good for absorbing some of the high frequency vibrations that causes chatter. John Lucas posted the tip and a picture in this thread on the How To's, Tips, and
Techniques forum.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top