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Staying warm

pencheff

pencheff

Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
224
Likes
1
Location
Lancaster, PA
Website
www.gvpencheff.com
How do you heat your shop?

My shop is the better part of an uninsulated two car garage with all my machinery in one bay and my bench and other assorted doo-dads sharing the other bay with the wife's car. We don't have Minnesota or Maine class winters here in Central PA but it definitely gets cold out there. Up until a couple years ago I would just give up woodworking for the winter months, but when the kid was finally out of college and I went bonzo buying new machinery and tools my woodworking interest skyrocketed and I can't get the monkey off my back. Woodturning is now making it an obsession. (you all just knew that was gonna happen didn't ya? And you didn't warn me!) So in January of 2003 I bought one of those contractor type kerosene Reddy Heaters to take the chill off. It works but man is it loud and man does it smell, so I'm looking for an alternative.

We have an all electric house so natural gas heat is out. I guess I could go the propane route but I think that would be a real bother. Is it?

Anyone using electric heat in a similar situation? How about those "radiant" heaters?

Any and all input is very welcome.
 
Insulate, Insulate

Greg,
I urge you to insulate the garage first. Then consider a small "window-type" A/C/Heater unit with thermostat control. If no windows, cut a hole in wall and frame for A/C unit. Am on my third shop with this type unit, and would do another the same way. Good insulation is the key. When not using the shop I turn the unit off or turn the heat down to 65 on cold nights, or turn the A/C up to 80 on hot days. It only takes a few minutes to bring the temperature up or down to comfortable level, and the operating cost is almost negligible compared to the house. Much of the year the shop will remain near comfortable temperature with the unit off. Hope this helps.
 
Greg I live in Middle Tennessee and last year had an uninsulated 2 car garage. I tried heating it with a big kerosene stove and a smaller Propane space heater. I simply couldn't work out there for more than a few hours. On one day I ran the heaters all day and night and only got the shop up to 48 degrees.
I paid $600 to insulate the shop and you would not believe the difference. It was 29 degrees last week and I was able to get the shop up to 60 degrees by later in the afternoon. I think if I run both heaters it will get quite toasty in there.
I am currently buying a used central heat and air heat pump. I am going to try to install it sometime this summer. I think that will do the job nicely.
I did purchase a small window airconditioner this summer and that worked great. The insulation makes a huge difference. Bit the bullet and do that if you possibly can.
 
Greg,

I have a similar situation here in NJ. No natural gas so I went with an 5kw electric unit heater made by Qmark MUH072. I'm heating a partially insulated 450 sq ft detached building. I use the kerosene ready heater to pre warm the shop before I go out there and turn it off and the electric on while I'm in the shop. Electric is expensive but the only other choices are to install natural gas or a propane unit heater which I do not know anything about the cost to run.

If you decide to buy the electric unit heater, go for 10kw. The 5kw is a little weak so it runs longer. You want single phase 208 volts unless you have 3 phase where you are.

There are many available. Manley, QMark, Dayton and Berko to name a few. I bought QMark simply because I found a great used unit on Ebay for $100. This unit cost $500.00 new.

Do a " Electric Unit Heater" or "Gas Unit Heater" search on the internet and you will find many to choose from. Here is one link to get you started.www.heatersplus.com

Good luck!

Ed
 
How big's your shop?

Insulation first, of course. Then, as you're in a high fire risk environment, I have a prefference for the electric heaters that circulate hot oil through radiator vanes. Set it on a thermostat that turns it on in early morning so that it's warm for you later on.

I'm also in a garage, although mine is a basement garage under the house so insulation comes with it (i.e. dirt). There's also a vent to the furnace that I poach off of some times, although the back bedroom gets cold awfully fast when I do this. Don't tell my wife, she thinks it a draft.

Dietrich
 
Living in Alaska and not having more than a handful of days warmer than 0 degrees F in Ocotber and November I think this is an area I can comment on. Just insulating will make a huge difference. As far as heater I have had experience with two electric ceiling mounted heaters (while in Minnesota) they worked very well. I can't remember the brand but I could find out if needed. I remember the biggest point being no open flame and specially designed for work around dust. The ceiling mount really worked well.

Another option that I use when it gets towards thirty below here is to put on long unerwear and use a long sleeve smock. My shop is not attached to the house so I have to walk outside to get there. By accident I found that wearing an old pair of pac boots (Ice Kings in this case) really helped keep me warm. The accident was me being to lazy to walk back to the house to get my tennis shoes.

Just remember that some finishes and glues don't do very well if they freeze. I try and make sure that kind of stuff is stored on an inside wall.

Happy trails and stay warm.

😉
 
dkulze said:
How big's your shop?
Click to expand...

Right, should have been more specific. This is a circa 1979 two car garage which means ~22' x ~24' with 7'6" ceiling. If it were a circa 2004 garage in one of the McMansions they build in this area it'd be 30' x 35' with 12' celings 🙄

The garage is one half of our "daylight basement" in a Bi-Level type home. It is uninsulated but the walls are concrete block on the inside, brick on the outside, so it's not as bad as if it were an uninsulated frame structure. Of course none of that matters when the wife comes home from work on a 10 degree February day and pulls her Pontiac block-of-ice into "the shop." If insulation is a must that's gonna have to wait until next year. We've been planning to have new garage doors installed then so might as well do it all at once.

I'm leaning towards Ed's solution, pretty much seconded by Dog's Minnesota experience. I've been researching those ceiling mount forced air heaters on the net but just wondered if the electric models work as well as the similar looking gas models. I'm sure one would work as well as the kerosene torpedo I use now, only without the constant roar and stench.

Do I have to get one of the "explosion proof" types because of airborne dust?
 
PA winters

I have my shop in my 2 car garage under the house and just had new garage doors installed. Now I don't use the garage as a car barn anymore, haven't for years. That is what the driveway is for... The new garage doors have made a huge difference. My old doors were cheap uninsulate ones that leaked air all around the door and thru the panel seams. We had a good cold spell over thanksgiving and my garage without turning a heater on was just fine. Before the garage doors it would have been very cold in there. If you buy doors don't go cheap. I bought insulated 2" thick doors with good weather breaks between the panels and I think I has and will make a big difference
 
Infrared quartz shop heater

Hey All,

I was out shopping for a heater a few weeks ago and the rep at the local store suggested the Marvin Infrared quarts heater (example: http://www.mwenergy.com/heater.html) My lathe is in a large warehouse space in which its impossible to heat the air. It stays around 50 degrees generally, and this does a WONDERFUL job of keeping the 10 foot area around my lathe toasty warm (too warm at points) - plus, no exposed flame, cheaper than gas/LP or Kerosene, nothing to refill, no stank, and its warm instantly. I can't say enough good things about it. I've also purchased an oil filled radiator with a timer/thermostat for a future space in which I'll have a controlled volume of air which I can heat. All of which should be pretty safe.

Devon Palmer, Columbus Ohio
 
I am in the process of building a 24'x24' garage just to use for my shop. I'll be painting this weekend and moving in next week (I hope).

I made sure it was well insulated, have a 2" thick clad garage door, double glass windows and am heating it with a Modine "Hot Dawg" heater hung from the ceiling in one corner. As I am adamant about controlling dust, I opted for the furnace that uses inside air for combustion. Several of my friends use these same heaters in their shops without problems. My unit is sized quite large for the space it needs to heat so it brings things up to temp fast and then runs infrequently.

I ran the natural gas and electric from the house but at first I did consider LP for fuel as it it much easier to plumb since it can be done with copper tubing.

It has only gone "operational" in the last few weeks so I don't yet know what my utility costs are going to be for the winter. At least I won't have to go to the garage, barn and basement to use my tools anymore 🙂
 
heating

I think over buying ie a heater to large for the space is a bad idea. Modern heating systems are designed to be efficient by having to run longer at lower loads the problem with oversizing the unit is tha it will run less and therefore probably not heat the room to the same even level that a heater would if ran a longer time and at lower rate.
 
devonpalmer said:
... and this [radiant heater] does a WONDERFUL job of keeping the 10 foot area around my lathe toasty warm (too warm at points)
Click to expand...

Devon, that's another idea I have been toying with because it looks so simple to install and the power requirements are e.z. I've read or heard or picked up somewhere that this kind of quartz radiant heater doesn't heat the air like the other units we've been discussing but rather heats the objects around it. i.e. it heats you and it heats your lathe. Have you found this to be the case? Because for the most part it is me that I need to heat 😀 I don't mind so much if the air I breathe is a bit chilly and this certainly would be a painless way to go. No need to call in an electrician to run a 220V circuit, etc.
 
Question

Every heating method relys on some heat exchange ie the air or some method that heats for instance your lathe via radiation, your lathe or you inturn will lose heat to some other unheated object in the room that can carry temperature. Eventually the whole room comes to some equilibrium. What am i missing. Is this like the microwave?
 
I actually had the same problem with the cold coming in when the doors open. Quick solution; built a dividing wall. Just ran a quick frame up, hit it with pressboard, and hung a long shower curtain for the door. Presto-bango, works like a charm. Also controls the dust and gives you a much smaller profile you need to heat.

Dietrich
 
djb,

I didn't mean to imply that I went with a unit too big for the space. I went with the size reccommended by a friend who is a heating contractor. I offered him the installation job but his quote was too high sooo...I did it myself for half his price. (another of the many reasons this project is so far behind schedule...DYI... 😱 )

In any case, your point is right on.
 
Jim,
When my wife Carol retires soon, I just may think seriously about spending the worst of our winter season doing just that. If I moved the shop, I'd have to add air conditioning to it for year 'round use, right? 😀

PS: is there anything you can add to my post regarding carrot wood?
 
djb said:
Every heating method relys on some heat exchange ie the air or some method that heats for instance your lathe via radiation, your lathe or you inturn will lose heat to some other unheated object in the room that can carry temperature. Eventually the whole room comes to some equilibrium. What am i missing. Is this like the microwave?
Click to expand...

David,
You and your lathe and other objects that absorb the radiant heat will not re-radiate sufficient energy to heat the air and more distant objects in the room to a comfortable temperature. The heater operates at a high temperature in order to radiate energy at a given rate. You and your lathe are at a much lower temperature, and therefore you re-radiate heat at a negligible rate compared to the heater. As mentioned, it can be a good method to create a "comfort zone" in a small area where you are working, but may not be suitable for an area where one is doing finish work. Maybe someone else has some experience with this latter situation.
 
I do live farm enough in the North end of Florida that I have to deal with some heat issues, although not like you probably do. The down side is my AC runs most of the year, today while most of the country was in a cold snap I had the AC running. Part of this is due to my new 16x32 shop having 2x6 walls with good insulation. Also used two layers of sheetrock for noise suppression (fussy neighbors) and insulation. In my old shop, also half a garage, I used that "blueboard" styrofoam-like stuff over the block walls. It worked wonders for insulation. I also cut some into panels to fit on the garage door using constuction adhesives. Worked good and the cost was much better than buying a new door. For heat I use a heat pump but I think most of the heat in there is just electric strip heaters. One other suggestion would be to put down some floor matting to stand on. I have covered my entire floor with 1/2" interlocking mats from Home Depot (or Sam's) and it sure makes a difference in sound, insulation from my feet to the concrete, protection for anything I drop by accident, and is sure easier on the feet. A huge amount of cold radiates from the concrete so covering it is a giant help.
 
I'm in the planning stage for a new shop, hopefully for next year. I'm going with in floor radiant heat. Since I all ready have the outdoor boiler its pretty much the only answer. Right now the current shop has a woodburner in it
 
quartlow said:
I'm in the planning stage for a new shop, hopefully for next year. I'm going with in floor radiant heat. Since I all ready have the outdoor boiler its pretty much the only answer. Right now the current shop has a woodburner in it
Click to expand...

Under the wood over the concrete? Concrete isolated from the ground by a couple inches of foam?

Floor radiant is great for full-time occupied spaces, much less efficient at warming up cool ones than something that produces an abundance of warm air that can be mixed mechanically with the cold. Might want to split your options with the outside boiler and add a heat exchanger with a fan behind it to warm for the occupant, and let the floor keep things above the dewpoint.
 
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