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Static!!!

W

Wilford Bickel

Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Messages
282
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Location
Alpine, AL
I had a shocking experience last night!! 🙁 I was sanding a platter and had worked my way through the grits to the point I had started using my 3M/Norton scrubby type of pads. After using the pads I reached up to my VSD controller and sparks went off worse than my electric fence!! 😱 It was enough of a charge it confused the VSD controller and the lathe actually stopped. I killed the power to the lathe, let the controller clear and when I turned the power back on the controller was fine. 🙄 At least I know my ground is good on the wiring!! :cool2:

I had on rubber sole boots and was standing on rubber matting. After this happened I kept one knee touching the lathe frame and had no more problems. Has anyone else had this happen? I wonder if I need a ground wire attached from the lathe to my body somewhere - I've seen electronic repair use them in the mills to prevent such static discharges. I want to stop this from happening again because first off it HURT and secondly I don't want to damage the controller.

Wilford
 
We are dryer than normal right now Jeff and we had our first day about 75 degrees. I was not using a sander just sanding by hand. I played around with it and it appears the scrubby type pads were the static producers as I could touch other machines in the shop and spark like when you walk in sock feet across carpet in the winter.

Wilford
 
I've never even heard of that happening except from a couple of magazine reports. It would be a good procedure to keep a dust collector on just in case the spark decided to get worse.
 
Had the DC going with the collection hood on the lathe pulling - thank goodness!!! 🙄 We normally stay so humid around here that static is just not a problem - mold and mildew are the usual problems we fight!! I think that the small jumper wire with the little alligator clips will be attached between lathe and my clothes with the clip touching the skin some way before I hand sand or use the scrubby pads again - at least until our humidity goes back up! Just another little safety problem for everyone to consider!!

Wilford
 
Happens to me all the time, but much milder. The plastic in the scrubby is what helps the charge build up. I get it from cloth backed sanding pads too. No problem with paper though.

Dietrich
 
when working on the lathe I always have the DC on and the static that it alone creates can shock you. They recomend wraping a ground wire around the hose and then grounding it so the dust in the hose doesn't blow. I guess what I'm saying is ground everything even yourself. A shocking experience is not good for anything or anyone.
ken
slippery rock, pa
 
Urban Myth

Kenneth Hertzog said:
when working on the lathe I always have the DC on and the static that it alone creates can shock you. They recomend wraping a ground wire around the hose and then grounding it so the dust in the hose doesn't blow. I guess what I'm saying is ground everything even yourself. A shocking experience is not good for anything or anyone.
ken
slippery rock, pa
Click to expand...

Ken,

It is quite impossible to ground a DC hose by wrapping a copper wire around it (or through it or any other way). The hose is a very good insulator (as is the PVC piping) and will prevent any such effort. The good news is that while mild static charges may well build in a "plastic pipe" dc system, the spark, while enough to startle you, is far from HOT enough to start combustion in the debis stream of a home/small shop wood dust system. This bit about small shop DC systems "blowing" etc. is in the same class as Spanish Fly; has never happened and the guy who told you he saw it, didn't. If someone tells you about such an "event," ask them for the address and contact the fire department(s) that covers it. You're going to find zip, because there has never been such an occurance documented.


Wilford,

Being in the NE, I get zapped all the time by my lathe; usually when, while cleaning up chips and dust with the dc hose, I casually touch the lathe. I can avoid it by giving Baby a quick pat every once in a while during vacuuming! 😀

M
 
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Static Ground

I have not had a static charge buildup on or near my lathe, but it has occurred from sawdust being sucked into my shop vac plastic hose. If you could tolerate the nuisance factor, Radio Shack sells a wrist grounding strap/flexable wire to discharge static while working on computers. I used to use similar straps while working on aircraft electronic systems where one ZAP could fry a $300,000 unit or $2,000 circuit card. Other than the wire getting in your way, it would be a bad day if it were wound up in the lathe/wood (and your hand/arm with it). Still, if my lathe had an electronic speed controller, I would not wish to inadvertently fry it due to a static discharge from my finger.
 
Lot's of static this time of year in the Northeast

I haven't had a problem turning, but the buffing wheels on the lathe, the mdf honing, and the vacuum all have charged me enough to get a couple of good zaps over the past month.

The only way to eliminate the problem is to be grounded. The ground strap will work. The other options I have found are anti-static/anti-fatigue floor mats and anti-static floor paint.

Jeff
 
Like Gil said - my main concern is damaging the VS controller. I was getting a real sick feeling in my stomach till it restarted las night. I waited and saved too long to zap it now!! I am going to experiment with a grounding strap attaching low on the lathe stand and hooking to my waist band or leg when sanding with the pads. I don't want it anywhere near the arm area to get wrapped up in the turning. I'll report back in a few days as to how this works. Static should not be a problem when our summer sauna gets started here in Alabama!!

I think the biggest shock of it all last night was at first I was scared the 220 Volt feed was grounding out through me! 😱 Once I got it through my skull that it was just static my reaction to it almost became funny - about as funny as getting into the electric fence!! 🙁 It is something to keep in mind as more of our woodworking equipment starts using electronic controllers static and grounding may become more of an issue.

Wilford
 
Static

I always fear sparks igniting in my dust collection system!!! I have gates at my Sorby, belt/disc sander, planer, jointer, band saw. I have connected all these with aluminum 4" stretchable dryer ducting, so grounding is automatic...have all grounded to the main sucker motor (outside the shop) and that is hooked to a copper rod driven into the ground. Also clip to my body and to hose inlet when possible.....better to be safe than sorry!!! You guys (and gals) do not be so laid back about dust explosions!!!!! I have seen the results in dust systems going POW in more than one cabinet/ woodworking shop...not a pretty sight!!!! Yup it was blamed on static!!!!
 
Where there's spark....

Mark Mandell said:
Anyone who may be concerned about static electricity and dust collection systems should read Bill Pentz's paper on it at the following link
Click to expand...

So we can forget about the static discharge from a DC igniting the dust in the collection pipes or the bag. Urban legend. Myth. Fine. (never believed it myself)

Anyone have any data on the static discharge from a DC igniting something a little more flammable? Such as that old gym sock in my hand soaked in Behlen's Woodturner's Finish which seems to be about 90% alcohol? 😱

Besides the DC causing sparks in the shop I was really shocked to discover (oooh, bad one) that my new Beall 3-On buffer turns me into a human vandergraff generator. Sparks zap between my hands holding the work and the banjo. If I get my foot real close to a ground source I can feel the sparks zapping from my big toe right through the shoe to ground. Now that's interesting.
 
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Turn more green wood

When I'm working with green wood, I have exactly the opposite problem -- the humidity gets too high in my shop. I occasionally have to open both doors and let the breeze blow through just to get rid of some of the humidity. (Get a nice plume of "steam" when I do that.)

Try turning some green wood and leave the shavings on the floor. Or better yet, get a load of wet shavings in the shop-vac and keep it running to really extract the moisture from the wood and humidify the air. Of course it's best to choose pleasant smelling wood!
 
pencheff said:
If I get my foot real close to a ground source I can feel the sparks zapping from my big toe right through the shoe to ground. Now that's interesting.
Click to expand...

Eureka! Greg's found a new cure for athlete's foot and toe nail fungus!! 😀

Greg, on your other issue (alcohol vapors, etc.) there are, I believe, formulas for how much of the particular vapor in a given volume of air is required for it to be what is called an "explosive atmosphere," but you'll have to look them up. Worth noting that the most powerfull non-nuclear weapon we have is still the fuel/air bomb called the "Daisy Cutter" that explodes by vaporizing a flammable liquid and then igniting the vapor.

Guess that's why the can of finish says "Use Only In A Well Ventilated Area".

M

PS Read a news article where police found a car with all of its windows blown out, doors bulged, and roof pushed up by about a foot. Turned out the occupants were transporting a party balloon filled with acetelyne gas in the back seat. The theory was that the balloon rubbing against the car's surfaces created enough static to create a spark that was sufficient to pierce the thin wall and ignite the gas. Scratch one Toyota. Amazingly, it appears the Darwin Award candidates were not killed, but did suffer "schrapnel" injuries.
 
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Wilford Bickel said:
Like Gil said - my main concern is damaging the VS controller. I was getting a real sick feeling in my stomach till it restarted las night. I waited and saved too long to zap it now!! I am going to experiment with a grounding strap attaching low on the lathe stand and hooking to my waist band or leg when sanding with the pads.
Click to expand...

With all the low voltage circuits in a controller, it's a real possibility you could ruin one, but you'd almost have to touch it, rather than the metal in the lathe, which should be grounded through the cord. Goes to the same issue that others keep mentioning of "grounding" the dust collection. You can ground a conductor, but not an insulator. Anyone with doubts can ground the reinforcing wire in the collection hose and experience the low-humidity poke.

Do double duty on that grounding strap, and make it a pull-out. If you jump back from the lathe, it turns off.

Used to love the static experiments in elementary science. I'd take in some amber from home and use it and fur/hair to make the static, then tell the kids the Greek word for amber - Elektron.
 
Wilford,

Mark is correct just pat the lathe from time to time. I do it often enough that it has become habit and I don't even have think about it. 🙂
 
I now live in South Louisiana, where static electricity cost too much for us to afford. But I handled electricly fired munitions in the Air Force and learned how to make a personal ground. I also used this when I was stationed in the north central US where static buildup would drive you crazy. I found a nice piece of braided copper wire, like you use for a grounding strap on auto equipment. I would put it around one ankle, with a rubber band garter, and let it drop out my pants leg to the concrete. Never a shock. This was an Air Force form 1000 deal and I got a $3000 bonus for this idea. In that case it was a matter of life and death, just like woodturning.
 
Captain Eddie said:
I now live in South Louisiana, where static electricity cost too much for us to afford. But I handled electricly fired munitions in the Air Force and learned how to make a personal ground. I also used this when I was stationed in the north central US where static buildup would drive you crazy. I found a nice piece of braided copper wire, like you use for a grounding strap on auto equipment. I would put it around one ankle, with a rubber band garter, and let it drop out my pants leg to the concrete. Never a shock. This was an Air Force form 1000 deal and I got a $3000 bonus for this idea. In that case it was a matter of life and death, just like woodturning.
Click to expand...

Capt Eddie gets $3000 for the idea - we probably had to pay $5000 apiece for the rubber bands!! 😀 😀

I did not think Central Alabama could buy static like this either but we must have really hit a dry air period!! 🙄

Wilford
 
Wow, I got it the other day while using the Bealle. It felt like someone was flicking my back pocket. At the time I was convinced my woodworker grandfather (dead 30 + years) whose pipe smell occasionally shows up in my shop had tapped me. I'm kinda glad to know it was static!! At least I have an explaination for the taps, now if I could only explain the pipe tobacco smells. (I don't smoke).
 
Wilford Bickel said:
we probably had to pay $5000 apiece for the rubber bands!!
Click to expand...

Wilford,

You are referring to the Individual Issue Elastomeric Induced Static Supression Devices right?

😀

M
 
Leslie S said:
now if I could only explain the pipe tobacco smells. (I don't smoke).
Click to expand...

Were you turning Cherry? First time I turned cherry I was immediately transported back in time to my grandfather's living room by the aroma. He always smoked Cherry Blend pipe tobacco.
 
Greg,
Both times Grandpa "came to visit" I was turning small pices of yew into small boxes. If I were inclined to guess I'd say he likes the look of the wood. Interesting how intense our sense of smell is.
 
Captain Eddie said:
I would put it around one ankle, with a rubber band garter, and let it drop out my pants leg to the concrete. Never a shock. This was an Air Force form 1000 deal and I got a $3000 bonus for this idea. In that case it was a matter of life and death, just like woodturning.
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough, it shouldn't work (but probably does). Having been in many a grounded labs and computer integration center, they either ground you to a table, with a ground running to an earth ground, or an antistatic floor. In the latter, the floor is tested for conductivity and they use either antistatic floor wax, or esd floor tiles and carpets. The entire floor is then hooked to an earth ground. I have been there when they do random testing and close certain portions of the floor because the wax is too thin. Each tech tests his ankle straps in the morning and signs a log to prove they grounded properly. (ISO logs)
Then each cart has a drag chain for grounding.

I would guess in munitions environments, they use pretty hefty ESD procedures now.
 
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