• January Turning Challenge: Thin-Stemmed Something! (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to John Lucas for "Lost and Found" being selected as Turning of the Week for January 13, 2025 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Spindle roughing gouge on spindle work.

I

Ian Robertson

Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
111
Likes
1
Location
Tooradin, Australia.
Website
ubeaut.com.au
Not wishing to hijack another thread http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?p=82591#post82591 I will start a new one here.

So that you don't have to search for the posts I have copied them here.

Originally Posted by MichaelMouse
Flute up hacking off chips from the middle not whittling off shavings from the end. Not one of theirs, but the guy who wrote the piece on SRG has the same problem.
Click to expand...
My Reply:
A spindle roughing gouge, when used for roughing down is presented to the work at right angles, the flute facing upwards, handle low.

You can use the whole cutting edge by rotating the cutting edge, still at right angles to the work.

It can also be used to get a very clean cut by presenting the tool at 45 degrees to the work and using the cutting edge like a skew chisel provided that the edge that you are cutting with is supported by the tool rest.



Originally Posted by Ian Robertson View Post
A spindle roughing gouge, when used for roughing down is presented to the work at right angles, the flute facing upwards, handle low.
Click to expand...
MM's Reply:

Really? Do you stuff the tip of your knife into a piece of wood and stab, or do you slice at a skew angle to direction of travel as you whittle? Same applies here. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n...eelandPare.mp4 You want to put your off hand over the gouge rather than under, as here for clarity.

Not to mention you get a smooth surface for less effort and danger as well.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...with-Rough.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r-and-Peel.jpg

Doesn't matter what it is, knife, plane, chisel or gouge. When it's wood versus edge, slice and skew will do the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMouse View Post
Really? Do you stuff the tip of your knife into a piece of wood and stab, or do you slice at a skew angle to direction of travel as you whittle? Same applies here. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n...eelandPare.mp4 You want to put your off hand over the gouge rather than under, as here for clarity.

Not to mention you get a smooth surface for less effort and danger as well.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...with-Rough.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r-and-Peel.jpg

Doesn't matter what it is, knife, plane, chisel or gouge. When it's wood versus edge, slice and skew will do the best.
Click to expand...
My reply:

Thousands of production turners have got it wrong for hundreds of years?

What you are basically doing is a finish cut.

Originally Posted by Ian Robertson View Post
Thousands of production turners have got it wrong for hundreds of years?

What you are basically doing is a finish cut.
Click to expand...
MM's reply and the one that made me start a new thread:

Nope, they shaved downhill with all their tools. Basic principles again. Finish quality at roughing speed? Guess that's what old Frank Pain meant when he said the wood would let you know how it wishes to be cut.

The problem with "Joe says" as justification is, as always, that Joe may not have figured it out.

Here's another way to rough down a cylinder, shown slowly. No credit claimed, because, as above, the boys at High Wycombe and elsewhere had been making "finish cuts" on riven wood this way for a long time. http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...inderRough.mp4 When you're making chair parts on piecework, finishing cuts are bread on the table.
Click to expand...
The boys at High Wycombe as you class them realised a long time ago that waste removal is just that, get rid of it as quick as you can and the quickest way is by using the Spindle roughing gouge at right angles, handle low so the bevel rubs.

The finishing cuts were bread on the table (as you say) is why they were limited to about the last 2 passes.

That video of the feller using a skew chisel to rough down is plain showing off. That is a finishing tool on spindle work.

If you are going to quote something get it right. On page 15 (fig 3) and page 17 (Fig 5) and again in the large picture on page 18 of Frank Pains book it clearly shows the gouge at right angles to the work.

His other favourite sayings were cut the wood as "it likes to be cut" and "let the bevel rub". It is the truism of spindle turning that you cut down hill.

As you seem to be fond of quoting from books here are a few more and they all show the Spindle Roughing Gouge at right angles for the roughing cuts.

Pleasure and Profit from Woodturning by Reg Sherwin pages 42-43.

Woodturning Tips and Techniques by Carol Rix pages 76-78.

Woodturning by Phil Irons (two books in one) The techniques section 9.

Learn to turn by Barry Gross pages 44-45. Of interest is the last photo on page 45 (Photo 2.17) where he shows doing a smoothing or finishing cut. Look familiar.

Just as an aside, I was taught by one of the High Wycombe boys over 30 years ago and have been a production turner ever since.
 
Ian

I've seen several extraordinary turners use the spindle roughing gouge as you describe.

Also saw a guy from H&B turn a major league baseball bat in about 3 minutes using only a spindle roughing gouge.
He was about 80% straight on as you describe from square to rough shape.
He angled it for sizing the handle
He turned it flute down to cut the pommel at the knob end. And used the wing like you described for the finish cut.
Sanded with 220 and done.

What you described works well.


Al
 
Last edited:
The point everyone seems to forget is that people use whatever "works" for them. I could strip a chair with a piece of glass way back when I worked in a furniture restoration business growing up. Why would I? Because an old timer taught me it could be done and not have any effect on the patina if done correctly. Is it an accepted practice? Not in today's world.
How about the Indians turning with their feet. I sure can't do it and would probably lose a toe and have an OSHA violation if I was employed in a woodturning shop.
The whole point is, if you are comfortable doing it "your" way then don't let anyone else tell you you are doing wrong(just be safe). And people shouldn't try to enforce that "their" way is the "right and only" correct way. There are always other ways.
 
Brian McInturff said:
The point everyone seems to forget is that people use whatever "works" for them.

The whole point is, if you are comfortable doing it "your" way then don't let anyone else tell you you are doing wrong(just be safe). And people shouldn't try to enforce that "their" way is the "right and only" correct way. There are always other ways.
Click to expand...

I've always used the roughing gouge as MM does........now, my attention is focused on a new method (for me), and I'm going to experiment with it the next time I use a roughing gouge on spindle work.

Time and again, this forum has made me aware of new and different ways of doing things that I wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise....... I am not new to woodturning, but I hope I can always be open to other ideas, methods, and equipment. Sometimes, I change my own ways, sometimes not......but, am always the better for the exposure.

......thanks Brian and Ian!

ooc
 
Yeah my grandfather used to use glass to scrape wood. The freshly broken edge of a piece of glass is good and sharp. When it dulls, break it again to expose a fresh edge
 
Brian McInturff said:
The point everyone seems to forget is that people use whatever "works" for them. I could strip a chair with a piece of glass way back when I worked in a furniture restoration business growing up. Why would I? Because an old timer taught me it could be done and not have any effect on the patina if done correctly. Is it an accepted practice? Not in today's world.
How about the Indians turning with their feet. I sure can't do it and would probably lose a toe and have an OSHA violation if I was employed in a woodturning shop.
The whole point is, if you are comfortable doing it "your" way then don't let anyone else tell you you are doing wrong(just be safe). And people shouldn't try to enforce that "their" way is the "right and only" correct way. There are always other ways.
Click to expand...
I could not agree more and like Odie I have changed some ways of doing things because of new technology or a better idea.

By the same token some methods that have been in use for a long time and have been there because they work, and work well.

In my job, waste is something that only inhibits the form below and is removed as fast as I can.
 
The 'Big Ugly' tool is a traditional tool used by the coastal Oregon Myrtle wood turners. I consider it to be the forerunner of the carbide tipped tools. A piece of tantung steel silver soldered onto some bar stock. Tantung is almost as hard as carbide, but you can sharpen it on standard grinders. It is a scraper. Well, they would turn light houses with it; roughing, finish cuts, and long delicate finials with beads and coves. Left me open mouthed when watching a master of the tool being used.

There is no one right way.

robo hippy
 
I'm surprised Alan Lancer hasn't commented...why use a spindle roughing gouge when you can use a large skew? 😀 Sorry I'll be quiet now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top