Source for M2 tool steel

[Tom Lewis]

Does anyone know of a good source for M2 or high speed tool steel. I would like to make some lathe tools but the few sources of M2 steel I found priced the steel so expensive that I could buy lathe tools outright for about the same price as the steel.
I have made lathe tools out of O1 tool steel and it works well. If I can't find a good M2 source I will make future tools out of the O1 steel.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Any particular size and shape?

You have the facilities to heat treat M2?

 

[Mark Mandell]

Tom,

You'll find a bunch at McMaster-Carr's site in rod sizes up to 1-1/4"; 5/8" runs $66 for a 3 foor length.

Steve's question is,however, a very good one as this stuff comes annealed and must be heat treated and tempered. That will take an electric kiln that can hold a accurate temp in the mid teens; not something you can do with a touch or a home kitchen oven.

What tools are you thinking of making?

M

 

[stvrowe]

Steve & Mark both have good points. I make tools out of O-1 and A-2 tool steels and not the greatest for woodturning. I checked into M-2 but after reviewing the process required for heat treatment and tempering, I decided against it. I do have a heat treat oven and M-2 is beyond the capabilities I have. Also, based on the cost for HSS materials it is more cost effective to purchase the tooling outright. I have seldom seen HSS materials sold as surplus so you will pay a premium for them.
Steve

 

[Gynia]

You can send out the tools you shape to get heat treated.

In the latest "American Woodturner" there is an article on making a pyrmid tools. That article mentions a source of heat treated HSS.

Dixie Industrial Supply, Inc 800 - 422 - 2616 dixiesupply.com

Good luck

Richard

 

[Tom Lewis]

Thanks for the help. To try to answer the questions, I have made knives for over 25 years. I have made and heat treated my own damascus. I have heat treated O1, 5168, 1095, 1084, L6, and probably some others. I have several forges, and a 100 lb. power hammer to draw out the tangs. I also have a heat treating kiln, and tempering oil.
I have not checked into the tempering procedure for M2. It may be that It is too complicated for me. I also make knives out of ATS-34. This is a stain resistant high carbon steel. I don't try to heat treat those. I send them to a heat treater named Paul Bos. He has the latest in heat treating equiptment and always does a good job.
As far as the tools I would make, I need to make some more scrapers. I need the steel to be maybe 3/8 thick and from 1/2 to 1" wide. Length does not matter that much as long as it is long enough. I made one set out of 01. I followed the demensions given in some of the lathe tool catalogs and now feel I made them too short. The scrapers work good, I just need them to be longer. It may be that I will need to use 01 again.
Since I was going to make more tools I thought I would try M2.
I read the article in American Wood Turner and sent for the Dixie Industrial Supply Catalog. The problem is, I can't find M2 listed in this catalog.
Everywhere I have seen M2 listed it is too expensive for me to make tools out of since the lathe tool catalogs sell finished tools for about the same price as the raw material.
Thanks for the replies, Tom

 

[Steve Worcester]

It took awhile (had to go into the wayback machine) but here is a source for generic heat treating data sheets for different kinds of steel. Keep in mind that steel has risen in price dramatically in the last year.

http://www.buffaloprecision.com/data_sheets/data_sheets_cp.htm
They do also sell steel, and this particular brand could probably be found locally as well.

 

[Hugh]

I am not an expert on tool steel or anything like that. But I have made tools out of 5 - 10% cobalt steel tool bits which I purchased from MSC and Enco. What I have done is purchase the long tool bits (6" or 8"). They come in various sizes - 1/4" square and larger. I have used both the 1/4" & 3/8" square stock. These are tool bits and are already hardened. I just make a tool handle and then grind whatever type of tip I want. I think I got the idea from Myron Curtis at one of the AAW symposiums. Fairly inexpensive and fairly good steel.
Hugh

 

[Tom Lewis]

Steve, thanks for the site on heat treat specifications. Evidently M2 steel is a much more complicated steel than I thought. I had never seen heat treat specifications on M2 steel before.
Hugh, I also have made tool bits out of 1/4 inch metal lathe tool bits. I really like the way they work. I have also used carbide inserts and they work well for rough work like taking the bark off a piece of wood. Also if you hit a nail with the carbide insert, you don't damage your tool.
Thanks for the help. Tom

 

[Greg Smith]

HSS source

If you are only looking for a limited supply it shouls be easy. If you live in a medium size metro area look for used tool supliers they often have bins of tools that can not be sharpened or scrap. Also some production tool suppliers have discontinued stock. I have found boxes or metal lathe cut-off tools for $1 each they are 8 in long and 1 in wide by anything to 3/8 thick. they are great 5 and 10 percent cobalt. I shape them with a cut off wheel and grind to final shape.
So check out your metal working industrial base.

 

[Ken Grunke]

I had to re-awaken this thread with some suggestions.
You can solder small HSS rectangular toolbits to the end of a heavy mild steel bar, even the heat from silver solder is not enough to adversely affect the temper of HSS.

About 10 years ago I bought some HSS planer blades from a fellow who advertised in the AAW Journal classifieds, Frank Lynn. I believe he still advertises there. The blades were 12" long, 1" wide and 3/16" thick--I think they were $10 each.

First, I would approach a cabinet shop or sharpening service to ask if they have any old HSS planer blades that have outlived their usefulness. Possibly even free.

I was just looking at one major supplier of toolbits, http://www.mscdirect.com/ and for sure, the price of steel has increased a lot!

 

[Martin Braun]

Ken - When you say silver solder, do you mean the same kind of procedure as soldering plumbing pipes? Have you done this and if so, can you provide basic details? Is it durable? I've soldered pipes before, so this may be a lot easier way to put HSS on cold rolled, etc. than I thought. Up until now, I was thinking brazing was the way to go, and trying to read up on that on the web.

Up until now, my homemade hf tools involve drilling holes & trying to precisely grind the HSS bit to fit, and then putting CA glue. The grinding has to be very carefully done, because the CA can't take up too much slack in my experience.

 

[john lucas]

I looked into heat treating M2 when I wrote my article on making tools. As everyone before me said I found it far to complicated for the average home user. Knife makers however are a different breed and you could probably handle it if you have the equipment.
I found it easier to use pieces of planer blades for the tip. You can drill them with special drill bits made by Mad Dog tools and I think the other company is Artu. These actually abrade their way through instead of cutting. You drill at high speed and when the drill starts to get red hot it starts drilling through the steel. Pretty bizarre.
The other method is to silver solder. I've done this with smaller cutters like the 3/16" square HSS cutters. I don't know if it's strong enough to hold with a large size piece of steel used as a scraper.
To make tools using the 3/16" square tool bars I drill a 1/4" hole. They usually fit in this. If not you can just knock off a very tiny bit from the corners. I either glue them in the hole with CA glue or drill and use a setscrew.
Silver soldering is similar to sweating a pipe but higher temperatures. I use a MAPP gas torch. You have to heat it red hot.
A scraper cuts by using a burr. None of the steels hold a burr for every long. You have to re-establish the burr often so it's really not a problem for me to make the tools out of whatever I have that will harden.

 

[Ken Grunke]

Martin, as John says, silver solder is high temp, much higher than plumbing solder which I have also used with success but did not put it to a rugged test to see how well it would hold. I think plumbing solder or 100% tin solder sold for aluminum should work in most cases. Whatever you use, it's important to degrease both surfaces and use a flux. Silver solder uses a borax flux, while I'd use plumber's acid paste flux for the low-temp stuff. Acetone, lacquer thinner, or denatured alchohol are good degreasers, or even nail polish remover for lack of anything else.

 

[Dave Roller]

Does anyone know of a good source for M2 or high speed tool steel. I would like to make some lathe tools but the few sources of M2 steel I found priced the steel so expensive that I could buy lathe tools outright for about the same price as the steel.
I have made lathe tools out of O1 tool steel and it works well. If I can't find a good M2 source I will make future tools out of the O1 steel.

Tom, try these people in Troy, MI. They will have anything you want. Ask if they have any end pieces in the length you need. Should be cheaper.

www.highspeedsteel.com

800.521.1410

 

[Paul Engle]

As for the shorter hss , one could buy the shorter as in tooling and make a holder for it like the carbide insert stuff, I have some 3/4/ inch hhs M4 and carbide inserts ,made a holder for it to run in my pipe collet handle ( 1/2" & 5/8 ") . We do not have to have a 10 inch long piece of steel to stick in a wood handle, a lot of systems today use very short pieces held by much cheaper steel in a very cheap wood handle. Just a thought....from an x machinest.