soaking in dishwashing liquid

[Gary Chapman]

Last night I read an article about turing green to 1/2 inch and then soaking your bowl in 3 to 1 mix of water and liquid soap to stableize the moisture content. They then let it soak for 3 days and then dry for three days with great success from drying without cracking and little warping.
Does anyone have any success using that method? What are the drawbacks,the problems, or anything else to consider.
I personally turn rough, wax,bag and let dry over time but this method would speed up my turning. Gary Thanks

 

[john lucas]

Seemed like too much work and mess for me. a 1/2" bowl will dry by itself in about a week in my shop. You do get warping but I don't believe the soap soak will change that.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Forget that you ever saw that article.

 

[n7bsn]

I really never tried the method, it didn't make sense to me

I once had the opportunity to discuss "Drying" methods with a honest, real world expert.

He laughed at LDD (liquid Dishwashing Detergent)

He did know about using DNA (De-Natured Alcohol), but noted that the industry didn't use it due to it's expense and very unpredictable results. In that some sample of a given wood took X amount of time, while a different sample grown under different conditions would require a different time. The industry need predictable results

 

[Dave Ogren]

LDD soaking

I turn to a finish thickness, soak for 3 days to a week or more in 2 to 1 L.D.D. then hose off and bag. Seems to work well. Robo Hippy says that it ( the soak) only helps sanding not less cracking, not sure. Good Luck,
Dave

 

[KellyDunn]

Gary, Ron Kent came up with that and folks do use it. I am a production turner so wish to offer a bit of advise. Do a lot of roughout. That way you will have more blanks drying than you can finish. Come up with a schedule of how many blanks to rough and when. Or even as one turner I know he roughs a couple bowls or so each day then gets on to finish work. In my case I have so many pieces not only roughed but kiln dried that if I did not rough another one I probably have five years worth of turning.
If you are waxing the work why are you bagging it also? Make it easy on yourself. But if you like that method keep it up.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I really never tried the method, it didn't make sense to me

I once had the opportunity to discuss "Drying" methods with a honest, real world expert.

He laughed at LDD (liquid Dishwashing Detergent)

He did know about using DNA (De-Natured Alcohol), but noted that the industry didn't use it due to it's expense and very unpredictable results. In that some sample of a given wood took X amount of time, while a different sample grown under different conditions would require a different time. The industry need predictable results

The recommendation is for hand dish washing detergent, not machine. Madge's hands were kept soft because hand washing detergents contain humectants like glycerol. The bigger glycol and triols are hygroscopic, and have a higher boiling point than water, so they hang around while the water leaves. Ethyl alcohol evaporates faster than the water it mixes with, so it gives no protection. LDD is PEG "extra lite," as it bulks a bit to keep initial surface checking at bay while the piece dries. No initial check, no growing check or final crack.

Robo Hippy claims the humectants are a sanding aid. Probably because the surface stays a bit softer as far as the alcohol soaked in. Should shed dust from the paper as well as a stearated surface, too.

Ask your expert about Dalton and Raoult's laws. No "reliability" involved, just false hope.

 

[robo hippy]

Yea, like others have said, I have used it for a while. I turn green to final thickness (1/4 to 1/2 inch), and let them dry and warp, then sand and finish. After a couple thousand bowls, it does make them a lot easier to sand out, but does nothing to drying time, warping, or crack prevention. I use cheap brown soap, and mix half and half with water. Soak for 24 hours, and rinse them off lightly. It was developed by Ron Kent for dealing with Norfolk Island Pine, and if you have ever tried to sand out pine, you know why. It does keep the abrasive discs cleaner, they last longer, wood doesn't tend to burn or burnish if you are pushing too hard or the paper is getting dull. It does pull some color, and after a while, I dump it on an ant hill, some weeds, or down the drain. Don't know that it does anything to the ants or weeds other than annoy them.

For crack prevention, make sure to round over rims, and I stretch out a couple of wraps of the stretch plastic film around the rim, most of it on the outside. This has worked far better than bagging for me. I do start them out on the floor for a few days, then up on a shelf. Dry and ready to sand in 10 to 14 days.

robo hippy

 

[James E Gaydos]

Ron Kent, used Costco brand liquid dish soap. There is a lot of info on the web about this process, and the use of various different soaps and the addition of alcohol to the mix. Never tried it.
Jim

 

[Bill Boehme]

Not that I would use the stuff in either case, soap and detergent are different critters. But most people will continue calling detergent "soap" and vice versa ... and everybody will still know what they mean. When I was an aircraft owner, many maintenance guys and pilots called "ashless dispersant" oil as "ashless detergent" oil. Since there is such a thing as "detergent" oil, using the wrong kind could have more serious consequences than washing your hands in the wrong kind of soap or detergent. Oh well, I don't doubt that I have committed many malapropisms.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to use soap on dishes. The principle behind detergent (alkali) use is that it and grease makes ... soap!

 

[Bill Boehme]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to use soap on dishes. The principle behind detergent (alkali) use is that it and grease makes ... soap!

Well, perhaps not the kind of hand soap that we use today anyway with all of its extra additives. However, my grandparents (and parents when they were younger) used home made lye soap for everything -- bathing, laundry, dishes, floors, Model T, etc. The right combination of lye soap and elbow grease could get anything squeaky clean.

The types of soaps and detergents used for cleaning are both surfactants, but they act differently in cleaning stuff from your hands.

A bit of trivia: There are other types of soaps other than those used for washing your hands. For instance the grease used to lubricate machinery parts consists mainly of an emulsion of metallic soaps such as calcium or lithium and mineral oils. Sometimes you see a bearing or other moving part go dry when the emulsion breaks down and the oil leaves the soap. That can happen when the part gets too hot or if the speed of a bearing is outside the rated operating conditions for the grease. When you get grease on your hands then you might resort to hand soap to remove the metallic soap and oil.