smothing out a bowl, catching, and using a bowl gouge.

[calvinjanes]

i have trouble getting the inside of a bowl nice and smooth. i usually use ridges and gouges inside and i was wondering if anyone could give me help on this.

every time i go to finish smoothing out the outside of a piece, even with a freshly sharpened tool, ill get a bad dig and take off a crumbly, torn out quarter of an inch of material. its really frustrating and i cant figure out why it happens. almost always on the last cut even with a VERY VEERRYYY light cut. can anyone try to explain why this happens and how to prevent it.

i recently got some bowl gouges (thank you so much steve!) when i cut, mainly with the 5/8ths inch it seems to walk back and forth on the wood, and i cant figure out why or how to stop it.

i do not have any local clubs or classes i can take, and i have nobody to talk to in person around me that has ever tried turning so any would be appreciated.

 

[Dale Jablonski]

Calvin, it sounds like your having trouble riding the bevel angle and are therefore catching the wood at the wrong angle. Is your light adequate? Have you looked at some of the video's that are out...Lyle Jamieson has a good one that I used and I'm still very new to turning. Wish you luck!

 

[calvinjanes]

i cant afford any videos, and my lighting is... to say the least, annoying. i will have to dig out an old animal light and put it on the wall or something... maybe just hanging from the ceiling. i do think that riding the bevel is part of my issue. ill have to work on that and keep pluggin away at it. thanks for the advice.

happy turnings
calvin

 

[Allen Howell]

Turning problems?

Calvin, I am a relatively new turner too, but I can tell you that (1) watching live demos is most helpful, even if you have to travel a distance at least once to see an expert do it, (2) there are a bunch of free vids on YouTube and other on-line sources that will help some, (3) check out your library (maybe they have one book on turning anyway).

I was using my roughing gouge and scrapers for everything I did because I was always getting catches with the bowl gouge. I was lucky enough to be able to join two clubs recently that have a demo each every month. I also got to go to the Woodworkers Show in Tampa for some demos, and a day at a David Ellsworth session. I came away from the last two events with a much better idea of what "riding the bevel" meant and since then, I have turned 5 green bowls without a catch! Not that I won't ever get another catch, but I will know what I did wrong next time I get one.

Hope this helps.

 

[Odie]

i have trouble getting the inside of a bowl nice and smooth. i usually use ridges and gouges inside and i was wondering if anyone could give me help on this.

every time i go to finish smoothing out the outside of a piece, even with a freshly sharpened tool, ill get a bad dig and take off a crumbly, torn out quarter of an inch of material. its really frustrating and i cant figure out why it happens. almost always on the last cut even with a VERY VEERRYYY light cut. can anyone try to explain why this happens and how to prevent it.

i recently got some bowl gouges (thank you so much steve!) when i cut, mainly with the 5/8ths inch it seems to walk back and forth on the wood, and i cant figure out why or how to stop it.

i do not have any local clubs or classes i can take, and i have nobody to talk to in person around me that has ever tried turning so any would be appreciated.

Calvin......

Really hard to say for sure what your problem is without being there......

Sometimes newer turners think their tool is sharp, when it could be much sharper.......this will require more pressure than is necessary than for a good cut with a sharp tool. (I am one who thought my tools were sharp.....and then my sharpening technique got better......several times!)

......Not saying your tool isn't sharp, but it would cover the kind of problem you are having. Just a guess on my part.

ooc

 

[Gregg Adams]

Hey Calvin
I'm very new to turning bowls, but I was having that problem to a tee with a new bowl gouge which is my first bowl gouge. I was mostly having that problem when I was roughing out the inside of the bowl, and every now and then on the outside. I finally discovered that I was catching on the "ears". Not sure if that would be the correct term. I gave it a fingernail profile grind, and I haven't had a catch since. This may not be the problem for you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Take care,
Gregg Adams

 

[Bill Boehme]

i have trouble getting the inside of a bowl nice and smooth. i usually use ridges and gouges inside and i was wondering if anyone could give me help on this.

The inside of a bowl is tough to do and I still have the greatest difficulty with that part. Remember that when you turn the inside of a bowl, the point of contact that the tool makes with the wood need to be ABOVE the centerline (this is the opposite of the exterior where the contact point needs to be BELOW the centerline). When using a scraper, remember that in addition to cutting above the centerline, the tool needs to be angled downwards (the back of the handle is higher than the cutting edge). Also, the toolrest needs to be very close to the wood in order to have the best mechanical advantage which translates into better control of the tool.

every time i go to finish smoothing out the outside of a piece, even with a freshly sharpened tool, ill get a bad dig and take off a crumbly, torn out quarter of an inch of material. its really frustrating and i cant figure out why it happens. almost always on the last cut even with a VERY VEERRYYY light cut. can anyone try to explain why this happens and how to prevent it.

i recently got some bowl gouges (thank you so much steve!) when i cut, mainly with the 5/8ths inch it seems to walk back and forth on the wood, and i cant figure out why or how to stop it.

Sounds like you might be using it as a scraper rather than a cutting tool. Also, tool holding technique and how the cutting edge is presented to the wood are both critically important. There are stable cutting positions for the tool edge where the direction of force as the wood rotates past the tool edge goes directly through the point where the shank of the tool makes contact with the tool rest. When the cutting edge is not supported in this fashion, there will be a resulting rolling moment that you will be constantly fighting to maintain control of the tool. Smoother control can also be maintained when the heel of the tool handle is firmly planted against your hip and you use your whole body to move the tool through the cut (it's somewhere between swinging a golf club and dancing).

i do not have any local clubs or classes i can take, and i have nobody to talk to in person around me that has ever tried turning so any would be appreciated.

Woodturning professional and instructor, Nick Cook, somewhat tongue-in-cheek says that the "last cut" is where mistakes always happen so the solution is to not make that last cut. There is a lot of truth in what he says. Always plan on making just one more cut, but then don't do it and you will be OK.

You could search the Internet for woodturning videos, but I don't know if you would find very many that are truly helpful. Also, consider that spending $35 or so for a video is a lot less than the cost of any turning tool -- and at this point worth far more than any tool that you have bought. The best tool in the world is worthless if you do not know how to use it correctly and no tool, by itself, is going to solve your turning problems.

 

[Gynia]

i cant afford any videos

The answer is very simple when you see it but very difficult to explain without moving pictures.

One bowl can easily be sold for the price of a video. A bit of a catch 22. Can't afford a video but a video will more than pay for itself.

BTW you are most likely presenting the tool with the flute open straight up and the tool perpendicular to the surface you are trying to cut.

The flute should be open at about a 45 degree angle (with 90 degrees being pointing straight up). The tool should be angled so that the angle of the tool on the flute side of the tool is about 135 degrees with respect to the surface being cut. Hold the tool parallel with the floor. The tool should not be cutting. The heel of the bevel should be in contact with the wood. The sharp tip of the tool should be away from the wood ever so slightly. Slowly reduce the 135 degree angle until the tool starts to cut. At that instant where cutting starts you are "riding the bevel". Maintain that angle with respect to the wood and you will be "riding the bevel". As you can read this is difficult to understand. Hands on training will make this simple to understand. Watching someone do this will make it slightly less simple. Watching a good video of someone doing this will help you understand this. Seeing pictures will give you hints. Read text like this will only help with the confusion.

Sharp tools are a must. If you don't have a way to sharpen your tools then you will not be able to turn wood.

There is a member of the turning club I belong to who drives from New Jersey to the south side of Washington DC to attend meetings. That is a couple hundred miles. There are several clubs between his home and our club but he travels anyway.

Attending a woodturning club meeting will make a HUGE difference in your woodturning. Saying I can't attend a meeting or saying I can't afford a video will put unnecessary roadblocks in you chance to turn successfully.

That being said there are many woodturners who learned turning by trial and error. You best chance is to use scrapers. The use of a scraper is very intuitive. Stick the sharpened scraper into the spinning wood with the tool angled down slightly. Move the tool back and forth in and out to shape the bowl. Sharpen often. How often? At least twice for every bowl you turn. Once before you start and once before that last few cuts.

 

[robo hippy]

If you are having catches with the gouge, most likely it is the wing (or ear as the other turner said) that is catching, the one that is closest to the wall of the bowl you are turning. Roll the flutes of the gouge away from the wood you are cutting.

There are a lot of videos on You Tube. Some are pretty bad, some are pretty good. Other than that, if you are an AAW member, look up your area by state and try to find a turner near you. Most of us are more than willing to help out. There is no substitute for hands on experience.

robo hippy

 

[Joe Greiner]

There are AAW chapters in Vermont, New York, and New Hampshire. None of them is more than about 70 miles from anywhere in Vermont, and you might be closer to one of them. Also, you don't have to be a member to browse the chapter list, and you don't have to be a member to attend as a guest.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Number of different points of view. FWIW, mine, and why I like 'em.

Don't ride the bevel, guide with the bevel. Don't try to have edge to heel in contact with the wood. That's one line, no stability, and if you roll the tool toward the outside, as is common when you catch the heel at the bottom of the flute, you catch the wing. Use the tool to cut progressively deeper along the line of travel by putting the nose on the old surface and turning the gouge slightly left so the wing makes the cut a little deeper as you progress. If you have the proper position, the deepest part of the new surface will be where the edge of the gouge is close to parallel to the contour of the bowl as you can get. The bevel you're guiding on is the bevel that goes from right to left in contact with the progressively deepening cut. You can thereby increase or decrease your clearance angle/sharpness angle to compensate for the contour of the bowl. It's like working with a plane, where things aren't steep, you keep the angle low. Steeper areas want steeper angles. Think of your York pitch.

Don't put your rest above the centerline inside. Sets you up for two real easy mistakes. First, any drop in the handle or roll will catch wood immediately. Below center it would go into air. Second, the bowl is getting smaller as you cut, and that means the roof is coming down as the walls are closing in. You can find yourself catching the roof because you were riding the bevel on the side. It's also easier to see what's going on if you have space above the tool, though you'll be cutting by feel and visually from the opposite side when you get your groove on.

Put your rest above centerline on outside so that you're not under the wood to begin with, just as you would be with a high rest inside. A catch is when you get under the wood. Why start there?

Couple stills showing how the cut is made progressively deeper by using the curve of the gouge.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Frame-From-MVI_1017.jpg

This was over-deep so you could see the whole contour.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Peeling-Outside.jpg

Inside. Notice the roll left and the handle down to shear.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/12_1024.jpg

What the inside cut looks like in two dimensions.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/7-Surface-In.jpg

Hogging is a different matter. Just remember to hold the tool firmly to the rest and swing your body with the handle so the nose doesn't skate back out.

Apologies for the angles here. You can pretty much determine the angle of the flute by the ejection angle. Note the smooth edge/feather edge on the shavings. That's where you cut the most for the least effort!
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=HollowOne001.mp4

These videos are in an open album, so thread through them. Though some will fault the use of big gouges, the small ones work the same, just with narrower sweet spots. Easier to see what's happening with a big one.

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.mp4

 

[hockenbery]

Calvin,

If the wood can drive down on to the cutting edge you get a catch.
if the wood can't drive down onto the cutting edge you can't get a catch.

Catches come from one of 3 things.
Badly ground tool, Tool rest too low, improper tool use that allows the wood to drive onto an unsupported cutting edge (one example iis pointing the flute up )

1. Your bowl gouge should have a continuous convex cutting edge all the way around. any dips or valleys and the proud spot will dig in. (it would have come properly sharpened from Steve0

2. tool rest height - with the tool handle parallel to the floor you gouge should be cutting at center. With the tool rest too low the wood is always driving onto the cutting edge.

3. Present the tool to the wood with the flute pointing parallel to the floor.
This is a catch proof cut and the only one you need to turn the bowl.


Ridges - I most often see these when students drag the tip rather than riding the bevel. The gouge wants to cut following the bevel so it cuts into the wood. The students even unconsciously pull the tool back to prevent it going to deep. this repeats across the bottom in a wash board effect.

As a general rule students have much less trouble hollowing a bowl than doing the outside. Probably all the practice on the outside prepares them for tackling the inside.
Find a club or a local turner. watch how the tools are used. Many local clubs have help sessions. Most clubs have a lending library which includes videos. Public libraries sometimes have woodturning videos.

stay safe, Have fun,
Al