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Simple scraper vs Big Ugly

G

Gerry Patton

Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
63
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20
Location
Wildwood, MO
I just received an email from Simple Woodturning Tools advertising their new "Simple Scraper". It sort of reminds me of The Big Ugly, is it at all similar and just commercialized? Just wondering what people that have used the Big Ugly tool think.
 
John the carbide scraper is over 1” wide. Looks quite different to me than other carbide tools. I wonder where I might buy a Big Ugly since I don’t have welding equipment or skills.
 
Well, I looked it up. I would not buy one or use one. Main reason is that I don't like the straight across design. My Big Ugly tools all are 1 inch wide, though I have some 3/4 and will be making some specialty box tools that are 1/2 inch wide. A scraper that is straight across like that is just too much cutting edge to put into a piece of wood at one time. It would not be nearly as versatile as the nose profile I use on the Big Ugly, which is a small straight on the right side, then a 1/4 round profile after that. Can be used for all heavy bowl roughing both inside and outside the bowl. The one from Simple Woodturning tools would not work nearly as well.

robo hippy
 
I’m with Gerry, I don’t want to try to make a Big Ugly tool but would be willing to purchase. Does anyone know where one can be bought? And by the way Reed where can information about your curved tool rests be obtained. Thanks
 
robo hippy said:
Main reason is that I don't like the straight across design.
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Not all the cutters are straight across. If you zoom in on the tool in the sales section it shows a crown in the carbide. Could make a nice shear scraper if the carbide is really sharp, or good for large architectural work like bed posts and porch posts. From the web site;
There are 4 different cutters for this scraper:

  1. Rectangle insert- This cutter shined on the outside of bowls, hollow forms, vases, platers, and wooden pen blanks. We also love it for simple spindle work too. Another place you’ll love this cutter is on the inside of a box.
  2. Rectangle negative rake insert- Like the rectangle insert but the negative rake grind makes this cutter less aggressive. This reduces chipping in very hard materials, can reduce tear out in softer materials and provides a great finish in both man-made materials and harder woods. Because the negative rake grind is less aggressive, many people find it easier to use.
  3. Oval insert- This cutter really stands out on the inside of bowls and spindle work with larger coves. It is still fabulous for the outside of your other work pieces too.
  4. Oval negative rake insert- Like the oval insert but the negative rake grind also makes this cutter less aggressive. This reduces chipping in very hard materials, can reduce tear out in softer materials and provides a great finish in both man-made materials and harder woods. Because the negative rake grind is less aggressive, many people find it easier to use.
  5. https://www.simplewoodturningtools....g-tool-for-woodturning?variant=43039067832532
I don't like the idea of one tool maker disparaging another tool maker's product on the forum. Bad form in my opinion.
 
I see no disparagement in a comment that helps one decide on what a certain tool will or will not do regaurdless of who that is saying it. The Big Ugly is a roughing and finishing tool where at best the Simple Woodturning Tool is obviously a finishing tool and I stand by my statement that it looks dangerous (at least the rectangle ones with the sharp corners). Is this not a place where shared ideas for the knowledge of the group be put out for consumption? I have a Big Ugly and it works as advertised, does it work any better than my Thompson Tools scrapers? No, I use them as finishing tools where Robo roughs and finishes with the Big Ugly.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but if you are looking for a heavy duty scraper, I recommend the Serious Toolworks scraper. It is 3/8" thick, 1 1/2" wide and 12" long. I've had one for about 4 or 5 years. It works really well and is great for roughing out really rough wood.
 
Steve Doerr said:
Not to hijack the thread, but if you are looking for a heavy duty scraper, I recommend the Serious Toolworks scraper. It is 3/8" thick, 1 1/2" wide and 12" long. I've had one for about 4 or 5 years. It works really well and is great for roughing out really rough wood.
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Steve - Serious has been out of business since 2018.......
 
Bill Blasic said:
I see no disparagement in a comment that helps one decide on what a certain tool will or will not do regaurdless of who that is saying it. The Big Ugly is a roughing and finishing tool where at best the Simple Woodturning Tool is obviously a finishing tool and I stand by my statement that it looks dangerous (at least the rectangle ones with the sharp corners). Is this not a place where shared ideas for the knowledge of the group be put out for consumption? I have a Big Ugly and it works as advertised, does it work any better than my Thompson Tools scrapers? No, I use them as finishing tools where Robo roughs and finishes with the Big Ugly.
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"Well, I looked it up. I would not buy one or use one." This is the lead statement in the response. Seems clear to me. But to each his own opinion, I'm fine with that.
 
I think Reed was just giving his opinion, and since he probably has more experience than most if not all the people on this forum using scrapers you might want to listen, however to each his own, please buy some of those tools and use them and tell us your opinion
 
Tim Dunbar said:
I think Reed was just giving his opinion, and since he probably has more experience than most if not all the people on this forum using scrapers you might want to listen, however to each his own, please buy some of those tools and use them and tell us your opinion
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I didn't expect a positive response to my comment, but to declare Reed the most knowledgeable scraper user of all time is a really broad opinion. You have personal information on everyone's skills that contribute here Tim? Your comment on how I should listen suggests I have little knowledge. I have 37 years of experience, but have no interest in selling tools or doing videos to promote myself. I also have no interest in adding more tools at the age of 70.
 
Come on Richard, deep breaths...I don't think anyone here was intending to get your shorts all bunched up. Please...I have enjoyed - and learned - from many of your comments - and opinions here on the forum. Just as I have from everyone else here. So, I am asking you to not take such offense to comments that were not intended to incur that feeling in you.
We all have opinions, feelings and experiences. And - choices of our favorite products. That's o.k. I want to reassure you again - no one is trying to offend you. The written word cannot convey intent, inflection, or attitude like when we actually speak to one another.
Peace.....
 
I'm calm Tim, just pointing out to someone that others may just have some experience on the subject. In Reed's video he even points out the Big Ugly is not his invention. But in actuality, my original concern is one maker telling others to not buy someone else's tool. But based on the response, I'm definitely in a minority.
 
Richard Coers said:
But in actuality, my original concern is one maker telling others to not buy someone else's tool. .
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That's just it, no one said to NOT BUY the tool, he only said he looked at them and wouldn't buy them *for himself* nor use them.. That one first sentence, taken out of context, could be read wrong, but if you continue on to the second (where he states his reasons) one might then conclude he was NOT recommending against the purchase of said tool, but only stating he wouldn't buy one for himself... Which, I suspect is pretty much what rather a few of us might have read it as... (or maybe it's just me...)
 
Richard;
I don't think there are any hidden agendas of people secretly marketing anything. If you are thinking of Bill - he has never hidden that he helps out in Thompson's booth and that he loves their tools. Doesn't mean that there are not other ways, tools and folks with plenty of experience. When I try to read between the lines....I most often just see a blank white area. :)
 
richard,

first, i never said Reed was the worlds best anything-your words, i figured that most people on here were like me, i turn 150-200 bowls per year and a bunch of other things, my understanding is that Reed turns around 2000 per year and uses mostly scrapers so, to me that seems he might know alot about scrapers, that being said i have a big ugly tool and it is probably my most used tool, sooooo if you are an expert and know everything about everything --- why get on here and ask anything??

and if you do ask questions on a forum filled with less than worlds-best-whatever, then dont be surprised if your superior intellect gets offended
 
Tim Tucker said:
Richard;
I don't think there are any hidden agendas of people secretly marketing anything. If you are thinking of Bill - he has never hidden that he helps out in Thompson's booth and that he loves their tools. Doesn't mean that there are not other ways, tools and folks with plenty of experience. When I try to read between the lines....I most often just see a blank white area. :)
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Yes I help in the Thompson Tool booth at the AAW Symposiums and next year in Louisville will be my last in the booth, I'm retiring. Louisville was my first AAW Symposium and will probably be my last I go to (unless they have one in Cleveland or Buffalo, which I doubt). The thing I will miss about being in the booth is talking to Woodturners (there is no better group of people). I must say this though, when it comes to scrapers I have never found a scraper that did not work at least as a finishing tool. If you went through my tools I know that you would find scrapers made by Robert Sorby, Benjamins Best and Craftsman (the Craftsman and B's Best have never been used) and if I haven't contemplated using a scraper (thompson scraper) and I need one quick the Sorby is a couple feet away in a rack and I'll grab it. And once again that carbide scraper with the sharp ends looks dangerous and I too would not buy one. One last thing about scrapers, how many times have you watched a pro at a demo tell you that you raise a burr on the scraper and that that burr disappears in mere seconds and then cuts with it for 5 minutes? That Sorby that I grab in an emergency has not been sharpened in at least 5 years but still does what I need it to do when I use it.:)
 
Bill Blasic said:
Yes I help in the Thompson Tool booth at the AAW Symposiums and next year in Louisville will be my last in the booth, I'm retiring. Louisville was my first AAW Symposium and will probably be my last I go to (unless they have one in Cleveland or Buffalo, which I doubt). The thing I will miss about being in the booth is talking to Woodturners (there is no better group of people). I must say this though, when it comes to scrapers I have never found a scraper that did not work at least as a finishing tool. If you went through my tools I know that you would find scrapers made by Robert Sorby, Benjamins Best and Craftsman (the Craftsman and B's Best have never been used) and if I haven't contemplated using a scraper (thompson scraper) and I need one quick the Sorby is a couple feet away in a rack and I'll grab it. And once again that carbide scraper with the sharp ends looks dangerous and I too would not buy one. One last thing about scrapers, how many times have you watched a pro at a demo tell you that you raise a burr on the scraper and that that burr disappears in mere seconds and then cuts with it for 5 minutes? That Sorby that I grab in an emergency has not been sharpened in at least 5 years but still does what I need it to do when I use it.:)
Click to expand...
I hope that you still come to the Symposiums after your "retirement" Is Richard Coers confusing you with Doug Thompson, or are you a partner in the business with Doug? LOL I agree with you on the assessment of the tool. And I know that is not a biased opinion. Thank you for always contributing to the forum. Aloha
 
I don’t think you can compare the Simple Scraper to the Big Ugly. I think they are used differently. My takes is the Simple Scraper is more for the exterior of a hollow form type turning or exterior of a bowl and would work just fine in that application as shown in their video. Similar to how I use the JJ hand held scraper tool for finish cut. I don’t consider it to be dangerous used in that application. It would not be something I would use on the interior of a bowl even with the radius edge carbide, but that may be possible.
 
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I have a set of Harrison carbide tools that I use for roughing. The quality of Harrison's products has always been good, but there's no way I would use that wide scraper. I wouldn't comfortable putting that wide of a carbide tool into the wood, and I would never use a carbide tool as a 'finisher'. My favorite scraper for finishing is an HSS tool by John Jordan.
 
Guys there is nothing any same sizes scraper as the Big Ugly will do any differently. Using the same wood, speeds and angles the same sized tool as the Big Ugly will work the same. The Tatung is said to be harder than carbide and stays sharper longer. Sharpened on my 180 grit CBN wheel it gets sharp just like any tool and will make a nice finish cut. I choose not to rough with a scraper but it can be done. Robo chooses to rough with the scraper and finish with a gouge, there are many ways to skin a cat just as there are many tools to do the same job. It is what you choose as there is no magic in any tool. Yes and after over twenty years of turning I am still one tool away from greatness. :)
 
I started with a set of carbide tools that included something very similar to the "Simple Scraper". A year later I now mainly use gouges, but I also built myself a very, very, ugly version of the Big Ugly. (How ugly? Well, I don't weld or braze, so I attached the cutting tip to the flat stock using exhaust crack sealant, and whatever cheapo HSS I used was definitely not tangtun.)

I think it cuts just as well as any "fresh" carbide tip I've used, and has two big advantages (beyond being dirt cheap):
1) It is easy to profile/re-profile.
2) It takes 2 seconds to sharpen. While you can sharpen carbide tips, you usually have to take them off the tool to do so.
 
My video about 'Scary Scrapers' covers a lot of my thoughts on scrapers and what they can do, and why I don't need anything over 1 inch wide. The tantung is 'almost' as hard as carbide, but it can be sharpened on standard grinding wheels. The Oregon coast 'Myrtle' wood turners, it is actually the California Bay Laurel, would sharpen before starting the day, turn till lunch time, sharpen after lunch and turn till dinner time. A burr on it will last far longer than a burr on M42 or V10 metals. I used to turn probably 1500 or so bowls a year. Been down to 200 or so a year for a while. Had to get both hips and a knee replaced, and figured it was time to get out of production work. Just couldn't do the load in and out at the shows any more. The carbide scrapers work fine, and the reason they are so popular is because they are easier to control than the big wide thick scrapers. They are fantastic, and as far as I am concerned, unbeatable for heavy roughing. Watch my videos. I just can't bring myself to use tools where you can't wear them down to the nub and there is no useable metal left. Can't do that with the carbide tools. After a certain point you toss them. My grandma, who lived through the great depression in 1929 or when ever, never threw anything away.

robo hippy
 
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