Simple bevel angle insert for a Wolverine VariGrind jig

[Gary T Egbert]

After watching Paul Ruud's very nice post and explanation of the geometry for setting up a VG jig (see link below), I wondered if a simple idea I had for setting the bevel angle might work too. My idea is to cut a short length of wood (hardwood or aluminum rod) to one half inch square or maybe even begin with a half inch dowel to be an insert in the VG. I am not sure the diameter of the insert matters. Cut the desired bevel angle on one end and then mount the insert in the VG as you would your gouge and present it to the grinding wheel with the bevel against the wheel. At this point the bevel may not be tangent to the wheel so move the "V" arm in or out until the bevel on the wood is tangent to the wheel. Now replace the wood with your gouge with the same extension beyond the VG. The picture shows one setup I tried for a 65 degree bevel and after grinding the upper bevel in the photo below is 65 degrees. Comments will be appreciated.

First Post: Simple Jigs for Setting Angles with the Oneway Wolverine Grinding Jig

Greetings all. Here is a simple way to set an angle for the Oneway Wolverine Grinding Jig with the platform or the Vari-Grind jig. Consider two (transparent) jointed pieces of wood with the same dimensions except one is wider. Place each on with one edge on the platform and then rotate the...

www.aawforum.org

 

[Paul Ruud]

It's late so this is a downpayment on more comments.

The proof is in the pudding. If this is working for you, then I say "Enjoy it." It certainly makes good sense. But could you explain where this fits into to your shaping/sharpening? I ask because I think a lot of people use a platform to start the shaping of a a gouge. On the other hand, once they have a shape they like then they use the gouge itself to set the Vari-Grind jig up for sharpening or re-sharpening, in much the same way that I think you are using the piece of wood. Have you seen the Sharpie trick for that?

I am looking forward to hearing more. Thank you for posting this idea.

 

[Lance Mirrer]

I think a lot of people use a platform to start the shaping of a a gouge.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for sharing your much deeper knowledge in this process. While following your process in the prior post, as well as viewing other sharpening videos, instructions, etc., I have never seen starting the gouge angle on the platform.

I have always either used the existing angle and set the vari-grind, or when I wanted to shape/reshape to a particular angle - work to set the vari-grind to the required angle, then insert tool.

Are you suggesting the setting of the Vari-grind is actually step 2, after first grinding an initial angle on the platform?

I believe (guess?) that my method has been providing adequate cutting edges, which I have assumed are getting close to the angles attempted.

 

[hockenbery]

At this point the bevel may not be tangent to the wheel so move the "V" arm in or out until the bevel on the wood is tangent to the wheel. Now replace the wood with your gouge with the same extension beyond the VG.

Don Geiger included a a similar device a 60 degree bevel on a round bar with the Vertical Solution (an aftermarket woulverine pocket with a vertical adjustment) - great for those using the Ellsworth Jig.

This bar with a ground bevel is Great for setting the distance from the wheel.

While I can set the distance pretty close using the gouge itself this method over time can introduce a drift error.
Using the steel 60 degree steel bar keeps any small error relative to the bar’s angle.

Similar concept to turning multiples - copy the same one - not the last on turned- to avoid drift

 

[Gary T Egbert]

Don Geiger included a a similar device a 60 degree bevel on a round bar with the Vertical Solution (an aftermarket woulverine pocket with a vertical adjustment) - great for those using the Ellsworth Jig.

This bar with a ground bevel is Great for setting the distance from the wheel.

While I can set the distance pretty close using the gouge itself this method over time can introduce a drift error.
Using the steel 60 degree steel bar keeps any small error relative to the bar’s angle.

Similar concept to turning multiples - copy the same one - not the last on turned- to avoid drift

I agree Don. It is always good to use a fixed reference for measurement versus a moving target. After a bit more experimentation I may make aluminum rods with the angles I need. Being a hobby turner I plan my gouges to out live me so while keeping them sharp I do not want to take off more than is needed.

 

[Gary T Egbert]

It's late so this is a downpayment on more comments.

The proof is in the pudding. If this is working for you, then I say "Enjoy it." It certainly makes good sense. But could you explain where this fits into to your shaping/sharpening? I ask because I think a lot of people use a platform to start the shaping of a a gouge. On the other hand, once they have a shape they like then they use the gouge itself to set the Vari-Grind jig up for sharpening or re-sharpening, in much the same way that I think you are using the piece of wood. Have you seen the Sharpie trick for that?

I am looking forward to hearing more. Thank you for posting this idea.

Thanks Paul. There must be many of ways to produce a sharp tool so if shaping on a platform to start works, that is great. I have not tried that, lacking confidence in my abilities. I recently watched a Richard Raffan video where he paused to sharpen his gouge free hand. He clearly has decades of experience enabling him to do that and this is great. However, I will clearly never get there and need to rely on my VG set up to keep my tools sharp at an angle I know.

 

[Paul Ruud]

Are you suggesting the setting of the Vari-grind is actually step 2, after first grinding an initial angle on the platform?

I believe (guess?) that my method has been providing adequate cutting edges, which I have assumed are getting close to the angles attempted.

Lance, it sounds like your method has worked great. And I wasn't suggesting that everyone follows a particular method. I was just talking about what I see a lot of turners doing. As others have said, the most important thing is that you get your gouges sharp. And getting close to the angles is all that most of us need.

A reason one would make the platform step 1 and the Vari-Grind step 2 is that the platform produces one constant angle no matter how much you grind. The Vari-Grind, on the other hand, does not. The more you grind the tip the shorter the gouge protrusion becomes. Every touch of the tip to the grind stone produces a larger bevel angle. For me, this is one of the reasons for the drift that hockenbery refers to above.

Here's a an example from YouTube videos. Stuart Batty only uses a platform (set for 40 degrees) but his first steps are useful for all bowl gouge shaping including swept back grinds that use the Vari-Grind jig or similar. His initial steps are what I had in mind. At least the steps that I have seen on YouTube videos. First, he establishes the bevel angle on the tip and second, by flipping the gouge over he establishes where the cutting edges of the wings will be. He wants the wings to have a straight profile when you look at them from the side. So he just grinds the edges of the flute the same way as he did the tip bevel on the platform.

Those who want a convex profile for their wings will lift the gouge off the platform to get that shape.

After this point, you can continue on the platform to shape the wings as Batty does for his 40/40 grind or you can switch to the Vari-Grind jig as someone doing an Ellsworth or Irish grind would. As you shape the wings with the Vari-Grind jig, you stay away from the tip so as not to get the drift or creep. There's just a final few passes to blend in the tip. For Stuart Batty, drift in the bevel angle is not an issue because he still has the gouge flat on the platform.

I have the impression that this is a common approach, but it is by no means the only one.

 

[Paul Ruud]

Thanks Paul. There must be many of ways to produce a sharp tool so if shaping on a platform to start works, that is great. I have not tried that, lacking confidence in my abilities. I recently watched a Richard Raffan video where he paused to sharpen his gouge free hand. He clearly has decades of experience enabling him to do that and this is great. However, I will clearly never get there and need to rely on my VG set up to keep my tools sharp at an angle I know.

Me too, Gary. I am really impressed by the folks that can touch up a gouge freehand. But I also rely on my VG jig.

Addition: I just realized that you might be thinking that I am suggesting moving the gouge around on the platform. I am just thinking of pushing the gouge straight into the grinding wheel so that you are just putting an initial angle on the very tip. That provides one reference for shaping the wings with the VG jig. Another reference can be established by turning the gouge over and grinding the top edges of the flute in the same way, presenting the gouge straight into the grinding wheel while resting flat on the platform. If you are making a swept-back grind, then the edges of the flute are ground at a fairly low angle, say 20 degrees.

So, because you are just pushing the gouge straight into the grinding wheel while it is resting on the platform there isn't much skill involved.

 

[Paul Ruud]

Here's another example of doing a first step on the platform and the second with the VG, Ron Brown's video about his 40/40 grind jig:

40/40 Grind for Bowl Gouges

Ron wants his wings to have a convex shape, so he lifts his gouge up off the platform for grinding the edges of the flute. He views getting the tip bevel as optional and unnecessary, but shows it.

 

[robo hippy]

The wings on a 40/40 grind on a V flute like Thompson or D way tend to be more straight, but they can have a slight arc, depending you what you do while sharpening. The wings on a parabolic fluted gouge will tend to be more rounded/convex.

robo hippy

 

[Gary T Egbert]

Me too, Gary. I am really impressed by the folks that can touch up a gouge freehand. But I also rely on my VG jig.

Addition: I just realized that you might be thinking that I am suggesting moving the gouge around on the platform. I am just thinking of pushing the gouge straight into the grinding wheel so that you are just putting an initial angle on the very tip. That provides one reference for shaping the wings with the VG jig. Another reference can be established by turning the gouge over and grinding the top edges of the flute in the same way, presenting the gouge straight into the grinding wheel while resting flat on the platform. If you are making a swept-back grind, then the edges of the flute are ground at a fairly low angle, say 20 degrees.

So, because you are just pushing the gouge straight into the grinding wheel while it is resting on the platform there isn't much skill involved.

Paul, yes I was. Whew, I think I can do that. Now I see what you mean by setting the bevel angle on a platform first and this is good any time but especially good if changing the bevel angle. You make a lot of sense when you suggest getting the bevel right before proceeding to the VG jig. This forum is a great learning tool with so many experienced turners contributing.