Shoulder Injury - "Turners Shoulder?"

[John Van Domelen]

I spent 8 hours Tuesday roughing out a bunch of timber. We moved across town and I need to process a ton of wood at the old house so it gets gone so that we can sell the place and to make moving the wood easier.

I used the new 1 inch bowl gouge that I purchased at AAW. Today I can raise my right arm only about two thirds of the range of motion that the left arm can raise. The shoulder joint is sore across the medial and rear delts.

This happen to anyone else? Is there a 'Turners Shoulder".

I rarely spend a whole day roughing out and never before with such an aggressive and large tool. Got a huge amount of work done and am loving the huge curly shavings.

Was just wondering if I am just that badly out of shape - LOL!

 

[MichaelMouse]

I have a 1" "bowl" gouge myself. The reason I use it so seldom is because it's heavier than hell. I want the rest as close to the work as possible, and with that much steel, there's still a lot to support. There are people who weight their handles as well, though I have to think they're mostly the kind who stick the nose up and carry the weight on their hip. I know I don't care for the practice.

If you look at the current "easy rougher" thread, you'll see that my answer is the traditional forged gouge with a light, short handle. I let the rest carry it, the bad hand serves as a pivot, and the guide hand swings the nose through the irregular areas, gaining support on the bevel quickly. Mostly it's a lean rather than a push, but the basics are to take leverage, not give it, and seek support from the bevel before pushing the tool along the rest.

Where it gets me is in the forearm. I plunge and sweep to hollow, and sometimes, since it is roughing, a task not a pleasure, I tend to take too big a bite. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=HollowTwo001.flv One of the great things about the 3000 is that long rest that snugs up close. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Straight.jpg Once I get a bit of depth, I move to my curved rest, which also snuggles up nicely. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Curve.jpg But as wonderful as they are in encouraging good practice, they won't overcome operator error or impatience. By day three of a rouging jag I generally put a band in the traditional tendonitis area of the right forearm. Probably would be smarter to do it on day one. 😉

So do what the tag line on my post says, and let the body do the twists and shoves, not the arm. Unless you have bad knees!

 

[john lucas]

I have a 5/8" gouge with a long handle that I use to rough with. The handle absorbs the bounce from those out of round areas. I tried a 1" and don't like it.

 

[rjones]

check your lathe height see if the center line (of spindle) is about elbow height. It can have alot do with it.

 

[Rob Wallace]

Take some breaks and do something else!

check your lathe height see if the center line (of spindle) is about elbow height. It can have alot do with it.

The spindle height has more to do with the vertical posture of the body while turning, and tends to cause adverse effects by fatiguing muscles in the lower back and sometimes upper legs, especially if the spindle height is too low. It likely doesn't manifest limited movement of the arm or shoulder, per se.

I suspect the case with jovan is simply overuse and stress fatigue of a set of muscles that he is not used to using continually for 8+ hours in a single day..... ...a day off, some stretching exercises, and gradual acclimation to increased muscle use will improve the situation. Taking some breaks from turning periodically to use other muscle groups and relax those used heavily while roughing will lessen the ill effects. Just as you would do in golf, playing baseball, soccer, or football, stretching and warming-up before exercising would also help, particularly for extended periods of turning.

I have asked similar questions to colleagues of mine in our Kinesiology Department (Iowa State Univ.), and they advise changing position by taking frequent short breaks and allowing the muscles involved to relax to resting state before getting back to work. There also are many studies involving repetitive stress and workplace ergonomics available, if you care to dig into this topic. I did some of this research for my demonstration on lathe station ergonomics, and it is clear that proper technique and frequent short breaks can contribute to your 'turning stamina', and still feeling good after long sessions at the lathe. David Ellsworth talks about this aspect of turning in some of his earlier videotapes.

jovan, I do hope you get through the roughing of your blanks as efficiently and painlessly as possible. I could not imagine doing that with the stash of wood I have here! Whatever you do, DO NOT injure your back! You'll need it to complete the move! After recovering from a herniated disc (between L3 and L4) two years ago, and the subsequent exercise and PT involved with getting back to normal, I take particular care in making sure I protect my back with proper warm up, good posture, and correct moving/lifting technique.

Good luck!

Rob Wallace

 

[rjones]

Rob : the height of the lathe has alot to do with the arms if you don't beleive me change the height of yours and turn for 8 hours a day and see what happens, anything from a tennis elbow type pain to sholder pain. It has happen to me and some others that I know of . changed the height after some adivce from a pro and solved problem. but does not work for everyone I guess.

 

[John Van Domelen]

ok now

A little rest and advil did the trick, I went back over after skipping a day and did some easier wood, willow and cedar, was roughing oak and elm the first day. Just muscle fatique, not used to that much roughing.

I am careful and take a break after every chunk of wood to go inside and get a drink. It was so hot that first day - a two litre of coke zero and two 32 oz gateraides bit the dust before the day was over. Loving the larger/faster aspects of the bigger gouge - did twenty rough outs the second day with it - shoulder did fine.

It was recomneded on another forum that I add a longer handle - will be doing that asap.

Cheers!

 

[Malcolm Smith]

If you watch people turning, some move their entire bodies while holding the tool handle close to their side. Others stand in one place and position the tool by moving their arm. A lot of the books, films etc. recommend the first method which I've always tried to follow. This initially requires that one make a conscious effort to do it this way. eventually it will become habit.

The tools also make a difference. I work mostly with Glaser tool which are quite heavy having weighted handles. I have read complaints about this on the forum. It's possible that the turners who are complaining are in the second category above. Someone who runs workshops might have an answer to this.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[hughie]

If you watch people turning, some move their entire bodies while holding the tool handle close to their side. Others stand in one place and position the tool by moving their arm. A lot of the books, films etc. recommend the first method which I've always tried to follow. This initially requires that one make a conscious effort to do it this way. eventually it will become habit.


Yep moving the body as opposed to using the arms alone would be less tiring. I generally go with this method, but not always.

 

[Charles Henderson]

Good luck!

Rob Wallace

I think Rob said it all there. However, I would emphasize a few things. First, thoroughly stretch before each turning session and again as soon as you begin to feel muscle tension. Second, spindle height is indeed important. Because I am 5'3" I have to stand on a significant platform to put me at the correct position, so that I can get the tool under my elbow where it belongs and still have the tool at center.

Also, for those out there like me, who already have bad neck/back problems - I would advise that you discover any movements that can increase your pain levels and avoid them like the plague. For instance, for me, repeatedly leaning over to the right to look inside of a turning will greatly increase the nerve pain and muscle tension on the left side of my neck. Instead I move to the end of the lathe and squat down. I also avoid looking down as much as possible, so I watch the top side of the turning, and I sit down to sand so the turning is at eye level. These two things alone will help anybody avoid a pain in the neck.

Hope this helps somebody 🙂