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Shop Wiring 110 and 220

D

DavidL

Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
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Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Website
www.davidlauffenburger.com
I have read several posts on forumns about wiring configurations for 110 or 220 Volts. I can't remember which magazine it was but within the last 6 months i read an article on how to wire switches using a three wire line, vice a 2 wire line, that enables the same line to be used for 110 and 220. After reading the article it made a lot of sense.

Has anyone wired their shop this way?

Is there some reason i haven't read about this article on the forumns, i am about to run some new outlets and am curious what everyone thinks.
 
Switching 220?

David---

First question: Why do you want to be able to use the same switch for 110 and 220?

Second question: Why do you want to switch the line in the first place?

Here's the discussion: If you're looking at switching an individual tool, then more likely than not you will want a remote switch either as a footswitch or a switch upon your person. I don't really have much information on tool manufacturers, but I would imagine that some tool manufacturers would have a remote switching option already provided, with information on how to acquire/install the remote switch.

If you are constructing your own remote switch, however, the switch should be dedicated to the tool and/or line, not general purpose. Good footswitches designed for environments such as a wood shop are not cheap ($50--$100 depending upon charactaristics), however some manufacturers can wire these switches for you. In any case, I do not believe it safe to use a general purpose switch to change between a 110 and a 220 line.

Good luck,

Henry C. Gernhardt, III
 
Dave,

The only advantage of using 3 conductors (plus a bare ground, of course) is to give you the option of pulling a 110 circuit for something like a lathe light or vacuum pump off the same 220 main line. This is done by using the red and black wires as the hots and then the extra white, a "common", is not used for 220. You get the 110 by then using one of the hots and the white (+ ground). However, you must be carefull that the combined max amperage draw of the 220 machine plus the 110 auxilliary outlet doesn't exceed the 220 breaker's rating. Most often the third wire is used much like 3-wire 110 light circuits where the 220 load is to be switched from several locations. My DC runs on 220, however, it is controlled by a 110v contactor switch which may be tripped from 3 different locations in my shop and garage. In that instance, the 110 leg was used for the contactor, and the remote switches could then be wired with much lighter 14 wire and cheaper 110 switches whereas the 220 circuit was run with 10-3w/g.

That said, it is not acceptable to run a 220 line and then take a number of 110 curcuits off of it. If that is what you were thinking about, forget it, please. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would be a violation of Code. If you are going to run circuits, they should be dedicated to their respective voltages.

Hope this helps

M
 
Mark is right in that this is something that can be done but should be done only in certain cases. On the farm I used this technique in the well house to pull a 110 light off of the 220 pump circuit. The only time the light is turned on is when there is trouble with the pump and I have had to enter the well house so there is never any problem on overloading the circuit. In this case it saved me having to run another 200+ feet of wiring just for a seldom used 110 light. I would not use this technique on a regular bases in a shop except as Mark pointed out for special cases such as his contactor. Otherwise you need to run 2 circuits.

Wilford
 
This is all 100% good advice. I will add the following since a lot of folks are reading this.

If there is ever any doubt about electrical wiring call a professional and spend $100 or $200. It is not worth being dead to save $100.

On a related note:
One of my coworkers from a few years ago wanted to save $80 and trim a single 4" branch from his tree overhanging his house. The ladder slipped, the chainsaw fell (and avoided him), but he landed on his hand with two of his fingers totally bent backward. He spent Xmas eve in the hospital. He spent the next 6 months in recovery and painful hand movement therapy. On retrospect even he admits the $80 would have been money well spent - because the task was beyond his skillset. He's lucky the injury was not worse.
 
Just checked with the code expert in our electrical engineering section. (I work for a very large architectural firm) What you are proposing is not only against code, but it is against code because it's very dangerous and you will make the front page of your local paper when it fails. Don't take electrical shortcuts, there aren't any.
 
Use dedicated lines

My shop uses 220 for the lathe, table saw, belt sander, joiner, and drum sander. I had two of the machines changed to 220 by the same electrician that did the 220 wiring. The 220 machines and outlets have different plug configurations so you can't possibly use the wrong machine. I agree with Jeff, don't mess around with this stuff. Call a pro.

I will say that it's well worth spending the money. The added power is noticeable and a real plus if you work large pieces.
 
Dual Purpose Wiring

Mark,

What I was thinking about is running one (3 wire and ground) circuit to my 220V cabinet saw and then split one of the 220 hots, the common, and ground off of it to supply a 110V outlet for the router table mounted in the cabinet saw extension table. The router and the TS would not be used at the same time so the combined amperage draw would not be a factor.

If i understand your responses above this would work as long as i don't ever run the two simultaneously.

Dave
 
Thats a receipe for disaster. One false move and you will have high-current 220v running thru your body. Don't do it.
Get a registered electrician.
 
DavidL said:
Mark,

What I was thinking about is running one (3 wire and ground) circuit to my 220V cabinet saw and then split one of the 220 hots, the common, and ground off of it to supply a 110V outlet for the router table mounted in the cabinet saw extension table. The router and the TS would not be used at the same time so the combined amperage draw would not be a factor.

If i understand your responses above this would work as long as i don't ever run the two simultaneously.

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

What you propose can be done, however, there are special rules involved for the wiring. First is that "all circuit wiring must be attached to and/or contained within the structure's frame." Translation: In the walls, ceilings, and floors or in conduit that is attached to the walls, ceilings, or floors. Application: Your saw will have to be hard-wired on a "homerun" to your service panel with the wire run in armored conduit (steel in a wood shop) that is secured according to Code to a junction box on your saw which also must be secured (bolted down) to the floor. No "moveable" saws allowed here, Dave. There will be NO switches between the service panel and that junction box which must also be secured.

I can go on [special plugs, etc.], but I'd have to go back and look up Code on this application which might not apply in your "jurisdiction." So, as others have said, this is a job for Electro-Man!! [aka "Sparky"] Not you, not your neighbor "who knows wiring," but rather a real licensed [& insured!] electrician in your area with experience in wiring and securing industrial equipment and machinery.

Have it done right or not at all. 😉

Mark
 
Last edited:
DavidL said:
If i understand your responses above this would work as long as i don't ever run the two simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Obviously, you don't understand the responses to your question so I will summarize and restate it in terms that you might be able to understand:

"Don't do it because I don't want to read about you in the paper or see you listed in the annual Darwin awards."

I have almost been electrocuted twice in my life when working on wiring that non-qualified people have goobered up and didn't tell about the stupid things that they had done beforehand.

Bill Boehme, EE
 
No More "Carpal Tunnel"

boehme said:
Obviously, you don't understand the responses to your question so I will summarize and restate it in terms that you might be able to understand:

"Don't do it because I don't want to read about you in the paper or see you listed in the annual Darwin awards."

I have almost been electrocuted twice in my life when working on wiring that non-qualified people have goobered up and didn't tell about the stupid things that they had done beforehand.

Bill Boehme, EE
Click to expand...

All please take notice than Bill's new screen name is . .

Sparky [of course].

Twice, eh Bill? You buckin' for the NEMA SETA Award?

Learned the little I know from a section boss for Penn P&L. Always told me he was more confortable splicing 100,000v lines in a wind storm than working on home wiring. Something about the ability of 60 cycle AC to match the rythum of the human heart and simply stop it in mid-beat; no burns, no nothing, just dead.

M
 
Back in the 70's I was electrocuted because a Licensed Electrician working in an old textile mill cut the ground off of a light fixture plug instead of rewiring the old 2 plug circuit to accept the 3 prongs. I was hung up between two metal grates unable to move anything but my legs - not a good feeling!!! The next day when I got to work the department manager called me into his office and showed me the plug he had cut off the cord while asking about my health. Needless to say there were some interesting safety meetings over the next few days!!! 😱 For some reason everyone that worked in the shop and saw me in the mill was asking how I felt for weeks after those meetings!!! 🙄

For some reason I don't even trust circuits that have been wired by licensed electricians and really made a point of learning wiring after that situation! 😉 Like stated above this should be done only in very, very special cases - not for regular use in a shop!!

Wilford
 
More comments . . . . . .

First of all, I want to apologize to DavidL for being snippy and poking fun at him, but my rationale for doing it was that it appeared that he intended to make the change in spite of the postings that were given discouraging him from doing it. While technically feasible, there are plenty of safety related reasons to not do what he wanted to do.

The National Electrical Code (NEC) is often mentioned and it is the basis for local electrical wiring standards in most areas. It is produced by the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) and the purpose of the NEC is safety. The code book is not a technical document that tells you how to wire something nor does it explain Ohm's Law -- it's purpose is safety for people and structures -- it helps prevent injury or death from accidental shock and also protects the structure from possible electrically started fires.

One of the BIG problems resulting from an unqualified person making wiring changes that do not comply with local codes in addition to the potential for immediate danger is that there is a long term danger and liability to some future resident who may be unaware of some wiring changes that have been done improperly (legally, it does not matter if he is aware of what was done). In most cases, it is not difficult to trace back to who made the changes and depending upon the circumstances can result in civil and/or criminal liabilities.

NOTE TO MARK:
In both cases in which I almost got toasted, it was when doing free work for relatives while they were there to "help". My brother in Austin was remodeling his kitchen and I had all of the power in his house shut off while hooking up new wiring for the range. He went outside and flipped the breakers on -- there was a big flash and my electrician's pliers suddenly had a big notch where it was biting down on the wire that was being trimmed to length. I decided to take a break and change shorts. The other case was an uncle who had run the wire from the house to the shop as a "favor" so that all I had to do was just hook it up at the shop end. He unscrewed the fuse (this was really old wiring). Poof - another bright flash and a big notch in my knife. OK, better do some troubleshooting -- wire hooked to wrong side of fuse. Still alive and much smarter -- run "helpers" off from now on.

Bill
 
I know what you mean Bill. I've done some wiring around the house. I always tell whomever is home that it is going to happen and "don't touch that fuse box". Then I turn off the associated circuits, close the box, and put a piece of tape over the latch with a note "do not open, date =xx/yy/zz".

Doesn't always works, but it helps.

Like I said, I've done some of my own wiring, and now just look at me. 😀
 
Bill,

Your points are well taken and stated. Worst mistakes we can do around electric are thinking we know more than we do and assuming others do also. I do my own wiring [run the wire, make the connections, etc.] but before it gets "warmed up," I have a "licensed" friend (who I consult with beforehand on the layout) stop in for a beer and check the work end-to-end. It's to the point now he says he's checking just his own work, and I tell him it's a good habit to get into.

I also have this habit; before I touch a circuit wire, I kill the circuit myself and use my tester to make sure that the wires I'm playing with are well and truly dead. Sure, I can wire a new switch or outlet into a hot line, but I DON'T.

😉 😉

m

ps: NEMA SETA - National Electrical Manufacturer's Association Self-inflicted Electroconvulsive Therapy Award - Given to those selected souls who don't quite make it into the Darwins, but get a bit more mellow during a home improvement project and still avoid buring the place to the ground. 😀
 
electricity

In high school, we had an experimental physics course. Derived formulas for getting a satellite around the moon, but not practical for every day use. I know that electicity can KILL. Should I call a licensed electrician for changing a broken lite bulb? 😉 Gretch
 
Gretch said:
In high school, we had an experimental physics course. Derived formulas for getting a satellite around the moon, but not practical for every day use. I know that electicity can KILL. Should I call a licensed electrician for changing a broken lite bulb? 😉 Gretch
Click to expand...

No, but I would recommend cutting off power to the socket before trying to change it. 😉

m
 
Gretch said:
Should I call a licensed electrician for changing a broken lite bulb?
Click to expand...
It depends!! This is not a simple question. I have known one or two people in my life where the answer would have been a definite yes.

Here is a quiz:
Before changing a light bulb, you want to make sure that the bulb is really burned out and that there is power going to the socket. Which one of the following would be the best way to proceed?
  1. Wet your finger and stick it in the socket.
  2. Save a step by just sticking your tongue in the socket.
  3. Be a coward and just screw a new bulb into the socket.
Which way do you turn the bulb to unscrew it? How about screwing a new bulb in?
  1. Clockwise; counterclockwise.
  2. It depends on the phase of the moon.
  3. counterclockwise; clockwise.
How many friends does it take to help you to change bulbs?
  1. Five.
  2. More than twenty.
  3. I don't have any friends.
  4. It depends on where the bulb is (if it is on the top of a tower you may need to call a lot of friends before you get a volunteer).
Hope that this is useful information.
Bill
 
Or you can do like Theresa (SWMBO) does. She calls me. I think she changed one bulb in the past 5 years. Supposedly this is because my arms are longer. Yeah, that must be it! :cool2:

To get a busted bulb out I use an old cork, or an old piece of carpet jammed into the socket (after the light switch is taped in the off position).
 
boehme said:
It depends!! This is not a simple question. I have known one or two people in my life where the answer would have been a definite yes.

How many friends does it take to help you to change bulbs?
  1. Five.
  2. More than twenty.
  3. I don't have any friends.
  4. It depends on where the bulb is (if it is on the top of a tower you may need to call a lot of friends before you get a volunteer).
Bill
Click to expand...

You left out "nationality" and/or "ethnicity"

😀
 
Gretch said:
Should I call a licensed electrician for changing a broken lite bulb? 😉 Gretch
Click to expand...
Well... I know someone that has an apartment and they are required (by the lease) to have lightblubs replaced by the maintenance man.
 
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