Shop teacher

[Lyndal Anthony]

Are there any shop teachers that have had to justify teaching woodturning in any classes? If so, what did you use as a justification? I try to tell people that if I can use woodturning as a hook to get the kids attention, I have a student that I can teach. A person/teacher never knows what may inspire a student to pay attention.

 

[Steven Antonucci]

I had a conversation with a shop teach who invited me into demonstrate to his class. His hook for turning is that the kids only have about 30 minutes per class, so they often can't get anything too detailed done.

The lathe offers them the ability to complete something in a week or so. When I am done demonstrating, they will realize that they can complete something in that 30 minutes from start to finish.:cool2:

Steve

 

[flyrod444]

I've taught high school shop for 28 years and always introduced my students to the lathe, but over the last 5 years most of the projects my students do are off the lathe. I justify it by saying the skills students learn on the lathe are transferable to other trades in the building industry which they are. In my state we have an end of course test for my students and my students scores actually went up 10 to 15 percent after using woodturning as a way of getting them off the back side and active in class. I teach half the year at our counties Alternative school and the academic teachers have seen a big improvement in their class by the students that are woodturning in my shop class. It seems that when they get motivated in my class it carries over into their academic classes as well. One other thing that I like about woodturning in my curriculum is that the wood is free. I have had some generous donations from a few community groups and two grants from AAW that helped me purchase most of my tools and equipment over the last 4 years. The principal of the alternative school gave me $4000.00 at the end of last year to purchase more turning equipment and tools. It is very unconventional, but Turning in my shop has been a wonderful success. One of my students made over $1000.00 selling his bowls and pens before Christmas this year. The great thing about this is he was able to help his family with a few bills during the hard times they are having like a lot of families in these hard times.
Jack Mincey
PS. It is sad to say, but in these crazy day's of education the the powers that be really only care about test scores and have lost touch with what education is really about which is help students become successful citizens and good workers. About half the time my best workers and most productive students are not very good when it comes to taking a standardized test that does not measure how well they can actually build or construct a project.

 

[Curt Fuller]

I'm not a shop teacher, but I can tell you this. My first experience on the lathe was 8 years ago and I was instantly addicted. If I would have been introduced to turning 45 years ago while in shop class there's not telling where I might be with it today.

 

[Gary Chapman]

Lyndal,
I am a retired art teacher and found that it doesn't take much, just a spark, to start the motors runing in kids. I took shop in high school and couldn't get enough of woodworking. I had an experience on the lathe but it didn't hit me like building furniture but a couple of years ago a friend of mine convinced me to try it again and I have been hooked ever since.
I always felt I was in the wrong field with art since I had this great love for wood but my art has just increased my interest for design and creativity in bowl making. I just want to try it all and I spend most of my time in the shop or cutting blanks in the woods.
I friend of mine with some acreage of timber called me yesterday at noon and invited me out to gather blanks since he was c utting firewood. I went to get a piece or two and wound up with a truck load of beautiful hickory and spalted maple. What a friend.
Sorry for going on and on. Gary

 

[MichaelMouse]

PS. It is sad to say, but in these crazy day's of education the the powers that be really only care about test scores and have lost touch with what education is really about which is help students become successful citizens and good workers. About half the time my best workers and most productive students are not very good when it comes to taking a standardized test that does not measure how well they can actually build or construct a project.

Even some "educators" appear to have lost sight of what education is about.

It's not about outcome, but the process. The tools gathered to pass that standardized test are just that - tools to build a project called a life. I'm sure you wouldn't consider it proper teaching to expose the student to various tools and never look again at what he was doing with them, would you? Even apprentices were required to complete "standardized" projects before they made their final statement.

The wood shop is a great place to talk applied Physics, of course, but it's also a place to do some Chemistry, a bit of Botany, and one of the best places to see individual initiative in action. The problem with a lathe is that there is usually only one, and it is normally required for all stages of a project, unlike other projects which require different tools at different stages. I'd have liked at least three lathes in a class of a dozen to give folks a reasonable shot. Alternative was to schedule the tool in the "open shop" after school I tried to give once a week. A 2-hour block long enough to get something done, rather than the 50-minute hour. Ten minutes for cleanup seems less at the end of a long block.

 

[flyrod444]

MM, I don't claim to know ever thing like some people on this earth do, but I do have a lot of knowledge in certain areas, education being one of them. If you think that one can judge how well a student can perform in a shop class better with a written test than letting them actually use the tools and build a finished product and grade it on accuracy and finish so be it, but I will disagree. I have seen you put people down on many sites and I feel it is very counter productive if you really are trying to help anyone This is the last time I will post anything in regard to your attack on my post to Lyndal. I've seen to many people try to reason with you on many sites with no luck.
Lyndal Maybe this will be of little more help to you. I have received enough money from the AAW and a few community organizations over the last 5 years to put 5 lathes in each of the shops I teach at. Our classes are 90 minutes long and students are allowed to leave one of their other classes to work on the lathe from time to time if they have completed all their work for said class. This helps to motivate them in those classes which the other teachers soon take advantage of.
Jack

 

[MichaelMouse]

MM, I don't claim to know ever thing like some people on this earth do, but I do have a lot of knowledge in certain areas, education being one of them. If you think that one can judge how well a student can perform in a shop class better with a written test than letting them actually use the tools and build a finished product and grade it on accuracy and finish so be it, but I will disagree.

Had you actually read the post, you would have noticed that the reply was to your opposition to standardized tests. If you stop and think, all education is about standardization. We have to have standards of language to be able to communicate, understand the rules of mathematics to cypher and even understand that though a wrench may be used to drive a nail, it is not the standard.

I did not mention written tests for IA, though they are a good idea, especially as regards basic safety certification for various machines. Saves a lot of time to read a group of tests to sample understanding rather than have to take individuals aside individually and give them oral tests to see if they are thinking properly about safety. It's also an excellent idea, in my opinion, to build a few "standardized" projects to familiarize them with the machinery, tools and processes used in joinery. Good place to teach some mechanics of joinery, and why certain joints are used to counter particular loads as well. I grade the appropriateness of materials, joinery, choice of finish and use of tools as evidenced in the finished project. I assume that since these are referenced to standards and methods taught, that you would not use them?

I can only hope that the OP read my recommendation to work for more lathes as the way to get more work at the lathe. One bandsaw is enough for a dozen ( I preferred no more than ten) students, but one lathe is not. Nor, BTW, is one scrollsaw. The point to be made to those who have to spend the money, as I mentioned, is that a lathe projects involves the lathe pretty much from start to finish, not for just a particular phase or part of a project. They are, as others mentioned a fairly safe tool as long as basic rules are followed, which may be a selling point as well. You don't have to monitor or participate in operations at the lathe as much as you do at other machines. the machines don't require quite the maintenance that others do, either.

 

[Dale Jablonski]

I wish we would have had a shop class in high school. I feel that there is so much catching up but that is part of the challenge. It is an addictive process....learning that is, not just playing on the lathe. :cool2:

 

[Steven Antonucci]

Going back to your original question, woodturning is a very good way to get kids hooked on wood, but as others have pointed out, it also requires some other science and mathematics hooks to be successful.

One of the things that I remember from my shop class in 1980 was that it was full of kids who were "filling out the day". At the time, shop was a place to put the kids who didn't excel at science and math. If you talk to most woodturners, we tend to be a pretty savvy bunch, often highly educated.

Perhaps the way to sell it is to attract the honor roll to the shop? I know that we spent two weeks learning to add fractions in 1980, and it made my shop teacher nuts that I did it in my head faster than he could work it out on the board.

Stop making shop a class about how to become a carpenter after HS, and focus on design, science and math and your problem will go away.

 

[hockenbery]

I'm not a shop teacher. Many school districts have taken wood and metal shops out of their secondary schools.

I do know of several cooperative arrangements with AAW. two in which the clubs meet in the school and AAW club members volunteer in the school to maintain equipment and do demonstrations. Some AAW clubs have helped schools get AAW grants.

Shop where it exists is a great place to learn problem solving skills and how to break big problems into solvable steps. It may be the last place where kids are taught to think. We had to make a cut list before buying materials and I still remember being told to do mine over using one less board. I wasn't told how to do it i had to figure it out.

I never got to use the lathe in shop it was reserved for the 3rd and 4th year students. But I knew I wanted too.

I do know a little about testing. We spent a lot of time trying to build passive tests that did not adversely affect the entity being tested.

We tried to avoid intrusive tests that changed the process being tested. An a example is the surface test we do in woodturning. We stop the lathe and do an inspection of the surface. If we had a Smoothtestometer that flashed a green light when we should change tools or grits we could finish a bowl with less down time(test time).

We only did destructive tests like the safety car crash tests as a last resort because of the expense.

If we do our smoothness testing in a more rigorous way. Slowly turning the piece with a light held a varying angels and putting on our Magnifying glasses at each step the process becomes more about the testing than the turning.

I'm all for passive testing that measures process and product. I'm against the test becoming the process or the product.

happy turning,
AL

 

[Dean Center]

Perhaps the way to sell it is to attract the honor roll to the shop?

That's the answer! AP Shop.

Obviously, I don't have the answer, but value the lifetime of playing with wood that I've had since Mr. Higus' 7th grade shop class. Our local high school is fortunate to have an excellent shop and teacher and our local woodturning club works with kids on the lathes after school twice a month. So far, it's not threatened here.

 

[Dan Mosley]

I can remember when I had woodshop in high school that the first thing we had to do before touching any of the machines or even hand tools for that matter was to pass several tests. I can remember them still - the first two were being able to define each tool that the instructor held up which was everything you could imagine (you were given a handout also to study before the test) ....... hammers (different types) to a compass, calipers, screwdrivers, finishing nails and sizes, drill bits,measuring tape, etc...on and on. If you did not reach the bench mark you could come in after school and the instructor worked with you to bring you up to the mark.

The instructor I had made sure that "everyone" passed the test.

The other tests were to name that machine.....and list in your own words safety measures for you and the machine............

Everybody had to pick a project for the semester some picked elaborate projects. I picked a gun cabinet but I can remember a friend of mine that was dead set on making a pool table out of Walnut (which actually took the whole school year to complete). He had a very basic set of plans but pushed him beyond what he thought he could do. I can remember him telling me many times that he was not sure if he was smart enough to finish this kind of complex project. He would complain about not understanding the measurements in the legs of the table........how to make the tilted runs........pockets with some inlays in the wood on the corners.......more measurements and what if there wrong.....
A couple times along the way the measurements were messed up and he had to pull things apart and start over but then he would get them right and move on to the next phase.....slowly but methodically thinking his way thru this large project all the way to the end.....day after day and then in the evening when there was open shop time he stayed the course.

In the end the instrutor was nice enough to make the drive out of town on his time off to pick up the slate for the table. They (shop teacher and student) had it entered in a couple of craft type shows and won every event in both shows.

The instructor was highly educated person, soft spoken, calm and had more patience then I have ever seen. I can remember him telling me that shop class is not here to teach you to memorize all the tools names etc....The true purpose of the class and projects is to teach you to think!!!

 

[Lyndal Anthony]

Woodturning in shop class

I have to thank everyone for his/her input. I am a "new" 60 year old shop teacher, (5 years now), and have been turning for about 4 years.

I increased my shops lathes from one to eight. My administration thinks that what we do in the shop is essential to school, unlike other schools. I have 100% support, but I knoow that there are other schools that have to fight for shops and whatever they do. I have demonstrated at Illinois and Wisconsin Technology Education annual conferences and was looking for input from other people to support turning in schools and have found that here. My hope is that I can share everyone’s input from this forum with other teachers so they can have more amunition when they try to get support from his/her administration or need justify their position when applying for grants.

Thank you again for everyone’s input, it is invaluable!

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... I'm all for passive testing that measures process and product. I'm against the test becoming the process or the product.

happy turning,
AL

My wife is a teacher and agrees with you. It's too bad that the test has become the product and "bragging grades" for school districts are more important than what the kids learn.

BTW, how do you get angels to hold the lights for you when you turn? They seem to avoid my shop.

 

[Valkyrie]

Hats off to all techers

I would just like to thank each and every teacher, especially those who teach skills like turning, for the wonderful job they do. You shape America's tomorrow! Keep up the good work!

Michael L. Jones
Clemmons, NC