Well I ordered the $85 HSS tool set from amazon. Do I really need a crazy expensive low speed sharpener? Can I just use a regular one and put a good wheel on it?
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sharpening stuff
- Thread starter Joe Eckre
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odie
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I used a 3600rpm 6" grinder for years, so you can get by with one. I wouldn't go back to that, though.....
Slow speed grinder is the way to go.....
-----odie-----
Learning to sharpen your tools is a big part of the craft. It's a must do item on the list. The HF tool set is perfect starter set to learn on. Grinding away one of those is less painful than a $150 M42 custom tool.
This is an opportunity. It may seem expensive to get a proper sharpening system just starting out but consider this as an investment that you will use for years to come. It might actually be less expensive to do it right the first time instead of starting with a minimal cost system that you will want to replace in 6 months or a year.
Check out https://woodturnerswonders.com/ for a turnkey grinder style sharpening setup. CBN wheels are the way to go with this type system.
As an alternative I use a Robert Sorby Pro-Edge in my shop and like that system very much.
This is an opportunity. It may seem expensive to get a proper sharpening system just starting out but consider this as an investment that you will use for years to come. It might actually be less expensive to do it right the first time instead of starting with a minimal cost system that you will want to replace in 6 months or a year.
Check out https://woodturnerswonders.com/ for a turnkey grinder style sharpening setup. CBN wheels are the way to go with this type system.
As an alternative I use a Robert Sorby Pro-Edge in my shop and like that system very much.
Joe, before you buy anything, you need to pay a visit to an experienved turners shop. Look around. Try to add up the investment that turner has in tools and accessories. Then ask where he stores the stuff he doen't use any more... Now ask yiurself. "Do l really want to get into this"?
I’ll echo everything said above. Monty gave a pretty comprehensive rundown. You’re starting to go down the rabbit hole Joe. It’s a wild ride!
Still using a high speed grinder with a 6" wheel.....
After 40 years of using this system, I can't see me spending lots of money on a slow speed grinder with CBN wheels.
It might be old fashioned or dated, but it works for me.
After 40 years of using this system, I can't see me spending lots of money on a slow speed grinder with CBN wheels.
It might be old fashioned or dated, but it works for me.
Well, I would not trust anything from Amazon. There are things sold as high speed steel that are not. The thing with the HSS is that you can grind it and get it red hot, but it doesn't lose the tempering of the tool steel. Yes, a high speed grinder will eat up the metal faster than a slow speed grinder. Most prefer an 8 inch grinder, and most prefer a slow speed grinder, for many reasons. I consider CBN wheels to be like a variable speed lathe. Once you use them, you never want to go back to the old ways. Spendy, yes, but best value by far, and by far, like light years....
robo hippy
robo hippy
@Joe Eckre I'm a new turner with loads of experience grinding wood working chisels and plane blades plus making HSS tool bits for my metal lathe so I thought that I'd be able to grind my wood lathe tools no problem on my 6" high speed grinder with friable wheels.
I quickly found out that there is a lot of finesse involved in sharpening lathe tools and quickly invested in a 1/2hp, 8" low speed grinder with CBN wheels. With a Wolverine jig I have zero hesitation to sharpen as soon as I feel the edge has gone away. With the old 6" setup I was very nervous about sharpening because of the unpredictable results.
Some of the improvement I attribute to learning but my experience of the difference between friable wheels and CBN definitely made me a believer in CBN.
I quickly found out that there is a lot of finesse involved in sharpening lathe tools and quickly invested in a 1/2hp, 8" low speed grinder with CBN wheels. With a Wolverine jig I have zero hesitation to sharpen as soon as I feel the edge has gone away. With the old 6" setup I was very nervous about sharpening because of the unpredictable results.
Some of the improvement I attribute to learning but my experience of the difference between friable wheels and CBN definitely made me a believer in CBN.
odie
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Joe.....Here's the thing about cbn wheels.
If your intent is to not hone your cutting edge, the cbn wheel is a good method of creating a usable cutting edge straight from the grinder. The one drawback to using the cutting edge that was created with any wheel, is the grinding marks are in a single direction. The advantage of honing, is any edge that is created from the grinding wheel can be improved upon, simply because the honed edge is created in multiple directions.
Since you are new to turning, and until you have refined your individual techniques, you would be far better off to use your high speed grinder with your new generic tools, and get some experience in evaluating your own progress.....and what you personally deem appropriate to enhance that progress.
There are so many things to learn, and so much controversial and counter-productive advice out there, that your own ability to self-evaluate becomes a very important tool to the progress you'll eventually make.
Don't become part of "the herd".....be an individual.......and, you'll be much happier in the long run.
-----odie-----
If your intent is to not hone your cutting edge, the cbn wheel is a good method of creating a usable cutting edge straight from the grinder. The one drawback to using the cutting edge that was created with any wheel, is the grinding marks are in a single direction. The advantage of honing, is any edge that is created from the grinding wheel can be improved upon, simply because the honed edge is created in multiple directions.
Since you are new to turning, and until you have refined your individual techniques, you would be far better off to use your high speed grinder with your new generic tools, and get some experience in evaluating your own progress.....and what you personally deem appropriate to enhance that progress.
There are so many things to learn, and so much controversial and counter-productive advice out there, that your own ability to self-evaluate becomes a very important tool to the progress you'll eventually make.
Don't become part of "the herd".....be an individual.......and, you'll be much happier in the long run.
-----odie-----
By “regular” I’ll assume a 6” 3600 rpm, grey wheels. Yeah you could that. In part it depends on your vision of turning - where does it fit in your scheme of things. Just piddling around, fully immersed, or where in between?
Having properly sharpened tools is #2 on the list after "lathe", so it's kinda high on the list. How much time, and frustration, do you want to put into your turning journey only to find out your tool sharpening is a major culprit - it's a common issue with new turners in my club, much more of an issue than "cheap tools", which can work quite well properly sharpened (some just don't hold an edge well).
There are alternatives - a large disc grinder, belt sanders - that have been used with success. The 8" slow speed grinder, and the various jigs that work with them, evolved as the primary choice because it's the overall best fit for the job. Sometimes it is best to "follow the herd", other times not. Particularly if you will turn faceplate work and use bowl gouges, it's wise to follow the herd with the abrasive and jig setup. There are quite a few different grinds that can be used for "bowl turning", which require set up of the sharpening station. Using common tools (grinder and jig) makes it easier to get help with how to do a certain grind. All the other tools combined don't get as much discussion as bowl gouges (the skew is probably #2).
At the end of the day, it depends on your approach to turning. Where does it fit and what "battles" do you want fight your way through. There are many skills to learn in turning.
I’ve got to go with Robo anything advertised as HSS (high speed steel) is suspect. Look for the designation of the steel M2, M4, and etc. the most consistent quality M2 aHSS that I know about is Sorby tools. There are many other brands that are high quality also. I just don’t have experience with them. No I don’t work for Sorby!
I use mostly Doug Thompson CPM10V steel. Mainly because I can buy them unhandled. Good quality M2 is great to work with and sharpens well. It actually gives a better edge off of the grinder (when using a friable stone than does CPM10V. If you hone like Odie you can achieve great things.
My advice. Get a mentor that can sharpen with the Oneway system or equivalent and learn to sharpen with that device. Learn to use that grind before moving on to other grinds such as 40-40 or Hannes vector grind. Keep things simple until you are good with your system before experimenting with flute shapes exotic steels or other such stuff keep it simple. “Simple doesn’t mean easy” want easy? Buy carbide tools and plenty inserts.
I use mostly Doug Thompson CPM10V steel. Mainly because I can buy them unhandled. Good quality M2 is great to work with and sharpens well. It actually gives a better edge off of the grinder (when using a friable stone than does CPM10V. If you hone like Odie you can achieve great things.
My advice. Get a mentor that can sharpen with the Oneway system or equivalent and learn to sharpen with that device. Learn to use that grind before moving on to other grinds such as 40-40 or Hannes vector grind. Keep things simple until you are good with your system before experimenting with flute shapes exotic steels or other such stuff keep it simple. “Simple doesn’t mean easy” want easy? Buy carbide tools and plenty inserts.
odie
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This is a very good post by Doug, Joe....in many ways.
The directions you take to mold your own individuality depends heavily on how much your own personal evaluations influence your choices. You can become a very good turner by following the herd, but the opportunities for advancement you develop by your own initiative are what makes you stand apart from the herd. We all make choices that influence our final destination, and those that rely on self evaluation are those that bring the most satisfaction.
-----odie-----
Wow, thanks for all the wisdom from everyone! I found a Rikon slow speed for 149. on a black friday deal yesterday and I thought that was a good deal so I bought it. I'll probably put the jigs on my christmas list. I probably won't be turning until around Christmas anyway as I have to build a simple workbench for the lathe and grinder. Yeah I was a little freaked out by all the stuff needed to do this but it'll come together!
Now on to how you plan to hold tools for grinding. Flat tools (skew, bedan, scrapers) and SRG’s just need a platform and a method of setting platform angle.
Gouges, particularly bowl gouges, are another story. Yes they can be done by hand, and if one turns about every day, there is opportunity to do it enough to get and stay good. Its a battle I chose not to fight, but to use a jig that is repeatable. I have used wolverine with varigrind, kodiak, and tormek. I havent used a vector but I understand its advantages.
All will do spindle gouges equally well. Not so with bowl gouges. Kodiak, and the wolverine varigrind 2 jig, pivot the jig differently to keep the tool on the wheel. They are too limiting IMO.The vector will do what what a varigrind jig will do, and also create the “hat maker’s grind”, a long wing grind with a steeper bevel angle on the wings vs a varigrind. This is my preferred long wing grind, but I use a Tormek jig to do it.
I use a wet grinder (grizzly) to resharpen gouges, and a bench grinder to shape tools. I had the wet grinder before starting turning so that led me to tormek jigs. The tormek jigs have the adjustability to do what the others will and then some depending on the amount of experimenting one wants to do. While very adjustable, they are also very repeatable. They make a tool arm jig that fits the wolverine base v-arm for use with a bench grinder.
I recommend either vector or the tormek jig route ( no wet grinder needed) and for me it would depend on total cost. I haven’t compared them lately. Both require the Wolverine base/arms/platform.
Edit: Just did a comparison, including a Wolverine base setup Vector $298 Tormek $358
Gouges, particularly bowl gouges, are another story. Yes they can be done by hand, and if one turns about every day, there is opportunity to do it enough to get and stay good. Its a battle I chose not to fight, but to use a jig that is repeatable. I have used wolverine with varigrind, kodiak, and tormek. I havent used a vector but I understand its advantages.
All will do spindle gouges equally well. Not so with bowl gouges. Kodiak, and the wolverine varigrind 2 jig, pivot the jig differently to keep the tool on the wheel. They are too limiting IMO.The vector will do what what a varigrind jig will do, and also create the “hat maker’s grind”, a long wing grind with a steeper bevel angle on the wings vs a varigrind. This is my preferred long wing grind, but I use a Tormek jig to do it.
I use a wet grinder (grizzly) to resharpen gouges, and a bench grinder to shape tools. I had the wet grinder before starting turning so that led me to tormek jigs. The tormek jigs have the adjustability to do what the others will and then some depending on the amount of experimenting one wants to do. While very adjustable, they are also very repeatable. They make a tool arm jig that fits the wolverine base v-arm for use with a bench grinder.
I recommend either vector or the tormek jig route ( no wet grinder needed) and for me it would depend on total cost. I haven’t compared them lately. Both require the Wolverine base/arms/platform.
Edit: Just did a comparison, including a Wolverine base setup Vector $298 Tormek $358
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When you purchase the jigs go for the Oneway Wolverine System. The Vari-grind and platform are really well made and make sharpening really easy. I also would recommend like all of the others here, to purchase a CBN wheel, probably 180 grit to start. They just perform much better, sharpen better, stay cooler, and are less of a hazard then conventional grinding wheels. My club has conventional grinding wheels and I don't like them at all. A less expensive option is the new Craft Supplies Easy Grind system that is very close in style to the Wolverine system. I believe the whole 6 piece set is $129. Here is the link...
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/93/7408/easygrind-Complete-Sharpening-System-6-Piece-Set
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/93/7408/easygrind-Complete-Sharpening-System-6-Piece-Set
Arguably, sharpening is more important than the tools.... Learn it early and it will change how you look at wood turning. That being said, you can get a Wen slow speed grinder for about $100. And then, when budget permits, add CBN wheels at about $100 each. But regular (fine grit) stones are fine so no rush on the CBNs.
OK, Joe. Now that you have come to grips with what might be needed to pursue this endever, be aware of the trap, "I'm one tool (or accessory)" away from from the Glory Land. If I could go back and give my new turner self advise, I would urge him to resist purcasing all things and spend those dollars on instruction. You might have a near by club that offers classes: or that club could hook you up with a mentor. There are schools that you could attend. We don't know what your experience might be or what tools that are already in your shop. Developing good habits is a lot easier than changing bad habits. All the above advise is great, but hands on guidance will speed up your learning curve.
Great advice! Could not have said it better.
yes! I want to connect with some people who do this near me.
Here's the AAW chapter search page AAW chapters.
I wish I had; you can delay the gluttony of tool collecting for a while. I have a high shelf in the shop, where impulse bought tools collect dust.…..likely most of us do!
In trying to remember what tools I have that I don't use, only the Sorby Spindle Masters. I do have some blanks from D Way that I have not yet found a specific need for. I do have some old carbide cupped tools, Eliminators? that the cups got dull and I don't use them any more, and yes, I can get replacement cups from Hunter. One 1/4 inch gouge from my first 'set' of tools from Craft Supplies that I don't use. Maybe some stubby gouges that are short and I like the longer ones. 2 cast iron S shaped tool rests from Craft Supplies that became obsolete when I made my bowl rests. I am sure there may be more around the shop...
robo hippy
robo hippy