• January Turning Challenge: Thin-Stemmed Something! (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to John Lucas for "Lost and Found" being selected as Turning of the Week for January 13, 2025 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Sharpening discussion and Sharp-Fast ...vs... Vari-Grind I and II ...vs... Tru-Grind

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
7,270
Likes
11,443
Location
Misssoula, MT
I have been using the original Oneway Wolverine sharpening jigs since the 1990's, and to tell you the truth, I've been quite happy with the results I get with it......but, I'm interested in any discussion users of any of the sharpening systems have to offer.

I initially used my Wolverine outfit on a 6" grinder @3350rpm, and I see little difference in the results after switching to a Delta 1825rpm single speed 8" grinder. Both do a good job, but I'd have to give the edge to the 8" grinder for the long term, because the wider/longer lasting wheel is better for the purpose. If the 6" were the only choice, I could make that work very well. There is some increase of heat with the faster 6" wheel over the slower 8" wheel, but the grinding wheel surface speed of both is well within "workable range".

In the beginning, I did find that keeping the tool on the grinding wheel surface was an issue, but that didn't last very long. It was only a short time before this particular problem was no longer a consideration.......just have to develop some "technique" before throwing up your hands in despair.......and getting the Vari-Grind II, or Sharp-fast.

Since I've not tried any of these auxiliary sharpening systems, other than the original Wolverine w/Vari-Grind I and platform, I'm operating strictly on theory........so, you can correct me if I'm wrong about any of my conclusions.

To me, it looks like the Tru-Grind and the Vari-Grind I (which I have) operate on exactly the same principle. The only drawback I can imagine, is the Tru-Grind doesn't seem to have a platform.....the Wolverine does have an excellent platform. The Wolverine platform doesn't look like it's compatible with the Tru-Grind.........and, because of that, if one were to get a Tru-Grind, it looks like it would be a "limiting" choice to make. Both of these systems allow the tool being sharpened to slip off the edge of the grinding wheel, and it's up to the individual to develop a technique that prevents that from happening.

The Sharp-Fast and Vari-Grind II seem to also be comparable in operation and theory. I see BOTH of these specialized jigs as great on theory, but poor in practical application. The reason I say this is because it looks like both of these two apply the cutting tool to the wheel at a single point...... negating any usefulness of using the entire surface of the grinding wheel. This, it would seem, would mean that the operator will be required to dress the wheel frequently, and would result in wasting a good portion of the available grinding wheel surface.

Here's a theoretical conclusion....... If the only real advantage to the Sharp-Fast and Vari-Grind II is to solidly position the cutting tool to the grind wheel so that it won't slide off the edge, then it seems to me these two jigs are simply "gadgets" that will have little value, once the operator learns to handle the other available jigs properly. I have no doubt that either of these will produce a nicely sharpened workable edge that any turner will find adequate and appropriate.......it's just a matter of paying for something that isn't needed, or necessary, or wasteful of available grinding wheel surface, in order to overcome a perceived problem that eventually becomes a non-issue with a little practice.

On a positive note, it looks like the Wolverine platform is compatible to the Sharp-Fast system.

As usual, there is no "right vs wrong"......it's all what one gets used to, and opinions. In the end, there is only results, and I am satisfied with the results I'm getting with the Vari-Grind I. I am well aware that others are perfectly satisfied with their own jigs and methods.......so, please don't consider my opinions to overrule anyone else's.......

Am submitting to further comment and discussion..........😀

ooc

PS: Now is the time to bring up other available sharpening jigs for discussion, too. I know of one very nicely made jig from England that looks very good......can't remember the name of it off-hand, but it looks like a good one.

Also, you "free-style" platform sharpeners should tell us of the advantages you see in your style of sharpening, as well......what can you do, that you can't do just as well with one of these specialized jigs? 😕

Photos, L to R: My old 6" grinder/Wolverine, Delta 8" grinder/the same Wolverine, Sharp-Fast, Vari-Grind II, Tru-Grind
 

Attachments

  • Standard 6 inch grinder (2).jpg
    Standard 6 inch grinder (2).jpg
    78.7 KB · Views: 51
  • Delta Grinder.JPG
    Delta Grinder.JPG
    141 KB · Views: 57
  • sharp-fast_l.jpg
    sharp-fast_l.jpg
    87.2 KB · Views: 61
  • vari-grind-2_l.jpg
    vari-grind-2_l.jpg
    34.8 KB · Views: 60
  • tru-grind-system_l.jpg
    tru-grind-system_l.jpg
    43.3 KB · Views: 62
Last edited:
I started with an Ellsworth jig. I don't think there was another one out yet. Never used another one. I have seen the Sorby variation of the Sharp fast, and it is on a bar so there is a little side play, and you can use the whole wheel.

I have become a platform sharpener. I will blame that conversion on Allen and Stuart Batty, Nick Stagg (who had Allen and Stuart at his place for a workshop which I took), and Mike Mahoney. It took a bit of time to ponder it all out (Pinky, are you pondering what I am pondering? Animaniac Fans any one?) There is no angle or grind that I can not do on a platform with any tool. It is no more difficult than jig grinding. There is no jig to put your tool into. It is faster than jig sharpening. The only hastle has been adjusting the platform from one angle to another. There are a number of variations on jigs to help change from one angle to another. I am developing one where no jigs are needed. Will have it in time for San Jose next year at the latest.

robo hippy
 
I use a tru grind. I don't need a platform. It jigs skews, scrapers, gouges and dresses perfectly without needing to buy anything extra. I have used the wolverine extensively and it is an expensive jig that won't accurately repeat skews. I've used keltons system and it was ok. I've use the Sharp fast a little bit but wouldn't want to use it long term. If I changed anything I would switch to a sanding belt/grinder.

I would also point out the surface speed of an 8" grinder @ 1750rpm and a 6" @3450 is close enough that there should be no difference in friction.
 
I use a tru grind. I don't need a platform. It jigs skews, scrapers, gouges and dresses perfectly without needing to buy anything extra. I have used the wolverine extensively and it is an expensive jig that won't accurately repeat skews. I've used keltons system and it was ok. I've use the Sharp fast a little bit but wouldn't want to use it long term. If I changed anything I would switch to a sanding belt/grinder.

I would also point out the surface speed of an 8" grinder @ 1750rpm and a 6" @3450 is close enough that there should be no difference in friction.

Hello David Wilkins......

I'm not sure I understand how scrapers are done on the Tru-Grind. Can you enlighten us about how it's done?

My scrapers are done on the Wolverine platform, and it's easy to keep a scraper on the same plane as the platform as it's swept around the grinding wheel surface. The Tru-Grind appears to have a swivel ball attachment at the base. How do you keep the scraper true to a plane while sweeping through the grind?

ooc
 

Attachments

  • tru-grind-system_l.jpg
    tru-grind-system_l.jpg
    43.3 KB · Views: 18
...

I'm not sure I understand how scrapers are done on the Tru-Grind. Can you enlighten us about how it's done?

...

Odie,

You sharpen a scraper with Woodcut's Tru-Grind jig as you would a bowl gouge. Mount the scraper in the Tru-Grind jig, adjust the leg angle and sliding arm to get the desired bevel angle, and sharpen away. You can do the same thing with Oneway's Vari-Grind jig.

Oh, and Woodcut's sharpening system includes a platform that attaches to the sliding arm. Attached is a picture of the platform from Woodcut's website. You can learn more here: http://www.shop.woodcut-tools.com/section.php?xSec=12
 

Attachments

  • Sturdy-Rest-RH.jpg
    Sturdy-Rest-RH.jpg
    8.2 KB · Views: 37
Odie,

You sharpen a scraper with Woodcut's Tru-Grind jig as you would a bowl gouge. Mount the scraper in the Tru-Grind jig, adjust the leg angle and sliding arm to get the desired bevel angle, and sharpen away. You can do the same thing with Oneway's Vari-Grind jig.

Oh, and Woodcut's sharpening system includes a platform that attaches to the sliding arm. Attached is a picture of the platform from Woodcut's website. You can learn more here: http://www.shop.woodcut-tools.com/section.php?xSec=12

Thanks David.......

That's how it looked to me. Actually I wouldn't want to do scrapers that way without some way to stabilize it along a plane.....as I'd personally prefer to use a platform to insure this. It's ok that others do it differently, but I do have my priorities.

I wasn't aware of the platform available for the Tru-Grind. That looks like the way to do the scrapers for owners of the Tru-Grind system. Since we are not using a single point for sharpening gouges, and a platform is available for scrapers, I'd consider the Tru-Grind on par with the Wolverine used with the Veri-Grind I ...... and, better than the Sharp-Fast, or Wolverine with the Vari-Grind II......

Thanks for clearing that up......



ooc
 
If you look at the base it has a socket midway along the sliding base. You insert your scraper in the jig and move the leg foreward so the jig acts like a platform. You can also splay the two leg sections of the jig and use both sockets and a diamond dresser in the jig will true and dress a wheel.

I guess what makes me think the tru-grind is better than anything else out there is that it does all this without compromising accuracy on any tools or do you have to shell out extra for attachments.
 
Good question. I have only used the wolverine, wolverine ll, and Ellsworth, plus several of my own modifications to the above.
I like the wolverine because I can move the jig out of the V for some grinds that I use. I'll start out in the V and then as I rotate the tool around to the outer edge I can move the tool up the stone to change the shape of the edge. I can't do that with the Wolverine ll. As you can see in this video I also do other things with the Wolverine that can't be done easily with the ll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbggxj2kgyc
I like the Ellsworth but it has problems with aligning smaller tools. It was designed for his 5/8" bowl gouge. I have a similar problem with some small tools in the Wolverine as well.
I am slowly going to the platform method as well. In fact some tools I don't use the platform at all, I just put the tool to the grinding wheel and sharpen it. I have been playing with both the Stewart Batty, my version of the English traditional grind, and the Michelson grind. None of which use any jigs.
 
@Odie,
I think your question is valid, to a point. Most hand grinding dudes think the jigs are all gadgets and they are correct, but some gadgets make life easier. Cars are nice. 🙂 I use the Oneway Vari-grind and the Ellsworth, I have the Vari-grind II and the Tru-Grind. I did update the Vari-grind which I feel is really an improvement. The Tru-grind works better on small tool, but the tightening system is a bit awkward for me. I don't care for the Vari-grind II after using it as I don't care for the geometry of the tool, which you don’t have as much control over. The safety factor is a consideration for many woodturners and I understand and support their decision. I have seen some nasty injuries when tools come off the wheel, etc. The wear on the wheel I think is a valid point, wheels are meant to be used up, it is just a shame to leave most of the wheel on the workbench. I don’t think there is any best way other than what safely works for the user. I do most of my tools with the Vari-Grind except my gouges that have the Ellsworth type grind, for these I use the Ellsworth jig not because I think it’s better but because I don’t like to change my Vari-Grind settings. It’s what works for me and I think that is what’s important, using what works for the turner. The biggest problem I see in new turners is their hesitancy to sharpen tools, so what ever gets them on and off the grinder is the best way in my book.
 
I added the Gieger vertical solution to my wolverine to give the proper height for the Ellsworth jig which I use for my bowl gouges.
Nearly everything else I sharpen on the platform.
Don also sells a little gizmo called the "thing in my jig" that accurately shims smaller gouges into the center of the Ellsworth jig.
Don Geiger is the go to guy for sharpening.

I learned to sharpen the bowl gouge to the Ellsworth grind before there were jigs.
First jig I saw used a pivot point on the floor. It may have been a Glaser invention.

In the old days about once a week I would slip or lift a bit too much at the wrong time and then spend 10 minutes getting the grind back.
At the time the Ellsworth jig was about $25. And a gouge was $40 and I think using the jigs made my gouges last 3 times longer.
To me it was a great investment.

Most people who teach woodturning teach sharpening with a jig. That way they can concentrate on teaching woodturning rather than sharpening.


al
 
Last edited:
sharpening jigs

I have the trugrind with the wolverine base, a sharpfast and a elsworth jigs.
The trugrind is to hard for me to turn the wheel that holds the tool. I have not been able to figure out how to set up the sharp fast. Won the elsworth in my local club raffle and use it for everything to be sharpened. There may be a better or easier system out there I have not found it yet. I tried to sharpen on the grinder by hand, the results are not consistent like they are on a jig. I am open to ideas.

Ed
 
I just bought the Robert Sorby pro edge and it works very well! The set up for various angles is a very easy and accurate process and it creates a very polished edge with no effort at all. It also comes with a gouge jig that is comparable to the veri grind system and is very easy to set up. If you are considering a new system I would highly recommend giving this a good look.
 
I have a tru-grind on a slowish grinder 1440rpm works OK. No platform to date although I intend to make one. It will probably go on my second grinder as it doesnt get much use.
 
Back
Top