Setscrew in chuck to hold chuck on spindle?

[Jesse Tutterrow]

Most (all?) scroll chucks come with a setscrew that secures the chuck to the spindle. This seems necessary only if the lathe is in reverse since forward direction continually tightens the chuck.

I bought a new adaptor for my old Nova Scroll chuck and it came with a setscrew. I also ordered a new SuperNova2 chuck and adaptor. This adaptor did not come with a set screw. I have been corresponding with John from Teknatool about the missing setscrew. He has now mentioned that I need a fiber washer between the adaptor and the spindle.

The adaptor screws completely on and contacts the flat surface of the spindle to the left of the threads. If I tighten down the setscrew it marrs the left side of the last thread (towards the headstock).

This raises the following questions:

1. Am I correct in the assumption that a chuck does not need the setscrew unless spinning in reverse?
2. Could I use my leather punch and an old belt to make my own washers?
3. How many of you use the setscrew in forward or reverse?
4. How many of you use the fiber washer?

It seems like the fiber washer would be easy to loose.

Thanks in Advance

 

[hockenbery]

I just use the set screw when I reverse.
I do not use washers.

If your lathe controller has a brake programmed it is possible the sudden breaking with a large blank can unwind the chuck. I have never had this problem but my lathe brakes slowly. I have heard of a few instances but It may be due to not tightening the chuck onto the spindle well rather than the hard breaking allowing the momentum of the piece to unscrew the chuck.

 

[Jesse Tutterrow]

You raise a good point that I did not think about. My Grizzly lathe (G0766) does not advertise a break and it takes a while to coast to zero speed.

 

[Bill Boehme]

1. You are correct.
2. No. That is far thicker than the fiber washer which is approximately 1/32" thick. Besides, I don't agree with JFT (John from Technitool) about using a fiber, plastic, or any other washer. I don't own any Nova chucks, but the metal to metal contact is what provides precision registration between the spindle and the chuck. Inserting anything between them, especially something compressible, doesn't make sense to me.
3. I don't use a setscrew, but it depends on what you are doing. If you have a very heavy piece mounted and you hit the stop button, the momentum could cause it to unscrew. If your lathe has electronic speed control, the solution would be to let it freewheel to a stop rather than the programmed ramp-down. I only sand in reverse and use light pressure. Starting in reverse should be done by gradually increasing speed.
4. Not me!

 

[Bill Boehme]

One more thought ... there are many kinds of setscrews. Most hardware stores only sell one kind ... the type that has a sharp cupped tip meant to dig into the metal because that type is meant for permanent fixing of one part to another. There are far better setscrews with rounded tips that won't grunge up the spindle.

Check out McMaster-Carr to see various options. The dog point or non-marring tip setscrews would be better choices.

 

[Odie]

You can also cut a piece of brass (example: brazing rod, or brass screw) and put it between the set screw and the spindle threads. It will grip, but won't damage the spindle threads.

-----odie-----

 

[William Rogers]

I would never use a washer for all the reasons Bill stated. IMO they cause more problems then they solve.
1 Yes
2 Don't need
3 never in forward. I only sand in reverse and don't use one. If I was to turn in reverse I would use one.
4 Never used a washer. I do use never seize on my spindle threads. Some believe the use of a spindle washer prevents the chuck from getting stuck on the spindle. If you have properly machined and lubed spindle threads you won't get the chuck stuck.

 

[john lucas]

None of my chucks have a sets screw. In all the years I've been turning I have had a bowl come loose one time. It was about 19" and the electronic breaking was rapid enough the chuck came unscrewed. What I do now is to put the chuck on, then tighten it using my chuck key. I have never had it come loose since doing that. I bought one of the Nylon washers years ago. Thought I needed it. I have not used it in probably 10 years. The only reason you might need one is if your chuck gets so tight you can't get it loose. Don't snap the chuck on, this can cuase that. Just put the chuck on snug by hand, then tighten it a little further with the chuck key and it always comes off with about the same amount of pressure. I turn my hand mirrors in reverse. don't need a set screw even then using my chuck tightening scenario. If I was doing a large bowl I would probably consider a set screw but then again non of my chucks has one.

 

[John Torchick]

I had a problem with the retaining nut on my reloader. I put a #5 shot in the hole and tightened the set screw down. The lead conformed to the threads and stays in place. On the chuck, the shot fell out when I took the chuck off the lathe. Back to the drawing board!
The previous posts are food for thought.

 

[stu senator]

I have used set screws with a brass tip set in to the tip. At the moment I don't remember where I got them.
I found some samples of small sizes (#6) in my junk. They were called GiB set screws and were brass with a nylon tip. I also purchased some from Pic Design a company that made various gears and other parts. I don't know the status of the company but they were sold and moved years ago.

Some one may still make them, it may just require a search.

Just did that and found the Lexington Co sells them in sizes that could be used.

Stu

 

[john lucas]

This is what your looking for
http://www.essentracomponents.com/e...ews/set-screws-metal-hex-socket-head-with-tip

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Bill the set screw that comes with the Nova Chucks is the sharp type and I learned the hard way about the damage they can do to threads. All my chucks have a set screw but only some of my Nova adapters have one. I use the nylon washer because when I started turning I got the chuck stuck a couple times before I learned "do not start lathe until the chuck is seated".

 

[Bill Boehme]

I use the nylon washer because when I started turning I got the chuck stuck a couple times before I learned "do not start lathe until the chuck is seated".

Now, that is a very good way to make sure that the chuck is nice and tight. I've done that trick a time or two with my old Reeves drive lathe ... usually it was when I noticed too late that the speed lever was at max and I was too lazy to remove the chuck before cranking the speed down.

Some lathe spindles have tighter thread clearance than others. The spindle threads on my old Delta was more than a bit undersized so chucks went on really loose and didn't straighten up until mated to the registration face. My Jet mini was a step better. And, on my Robust AB, chucks thread on very smoothly. Years ago, I always gave chucks a forceful twist to seat it on the spindle. Now, I just use a flick of the wrist which is more than necessary for what I do. By the time that I remove the chuck it is seated solidly enough that I lock the spindle and give the chuck a quick jerk using the chuck key (Stronghold & Talon) or tommy bar (Vicmarc).

It's been some years since I had a chuck really tight, but when I was a beginner and getting frequent whopper catches there were a few instances where a really long cheater bar came in handy.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I had a chuck come lose while hollowing twice. Had to tighten the set screws. Couldn’t figure out why it was happening, my best guess is that my hollowing was slowing down the piece but not the lathe so it was unscrewing. I use Delta 46-460 and Vicmarc chuck.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I had a chuck come lose while hollowing twice. Had to tighten the set screws. Couldn’t figure out why it was happening, my best guess is that my hollowing was slowing down the piece but not the lathe so it was unscrewing. I use Delta 46-460 and Vicmarc chuck.

That should cause the chuck to tighten unless you were hollowing in reverse (which sometimes has its advantages).

Question: When standing at the tailstock end of the lathe and looking towards the spindle, which way was it turning, clockwise or counterclockwise?

The spindle adapters on Vicmarc chucks don't come with threaded setscrew holes unless you or somebody else made the mod.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

That should cause the chuck to tighten unless you were hollowing in reverse (which sometimes has its advantages).

Question: When standing at the tailstock end of the lathe and looking towards the spindle, which way was it turning, clockwise or counterclockwise?

The spindle adapters on Vicmarc chucks don't come with threaded setscrew holes unless you or somebody else made the mod.

That was what I thought, it should tighten but it was spinning in the right direction and I was hollowing just fine for a while then it started to wobble. Maybe I touched the rim at the opposite side and slowed the wood down without noticing? I was using 3/4 bar in 1” 5/8th hole down 6 to 8” deep.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I always use an 1/8" polymer washer between my bowl chucks and the head stock spindle.
One good catch while roughing out a bowl can lock the bowl chuck thread onto the
spindle thread and makes for a difficult task to remove the bowl chuck later on if you
do not have a washer installed on the spindle. I learned this lesson many years ago
and have adopted this practice when installing adjustable chucks on the wood lathe.
You can quickly and easily turn a washer from any polymer plastic on the wood lathe.
I turned a couple of these from some thin Corian material about ten years ago and they
are still in use today.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I had one get jammed bad and I struggled to get it off when I first started turning, that was when I started using the washer. I believe it was Lyle Jamieson who said not to use them to make sure the chuck seats well so I recently stopped.

 

[Bill Boehme]

That was what I thought, it should tighten but it was spinning in the right direction and I was hollowing just fine for a while then it started to wobble. Maybe I touched the rim at the opposite side and slowed the wood down without noticing? I was using 3/4 bar in 1” 5/8th hole down 6 to 8” deep.

Possibly if the hollowing cutter was below center that could set up a strong vibration in the wood. The resulting chattering with the tip skipping along the inside alternating between grabbing the wood and free spinning could possibly be the cause. As you hollow deeper it would be good to verify that the tip is still above center. If the boring bar is angled downhill slightly that could be the reason that the tip is getting lower the deeper you hollow.

 

[Odie]

That was what I thought, it should tighten but it was spinning in the right direction and I was hollowing just fine for a while then it started to wobble. Maybe I touched the rim at the opposite side and slowed the wood down without noticing? I was using 3/4 bar in 1” 5/8th hole down 6 to 8” deep.

Could have it come loose as you shut down?

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Possibly if the hollowing cutter was below center that could set up a strong vibration in the wood. The resulting chattering with the tip skipping along the inside alternating between grabbing the wood and free spinning could possibly be the cause. As you hollow deeper it would be good to verify that the tip is still above center. If the boring bar is angled downhill slightly that could be the reason that the tip is getting lower the deeper you hollow.

That could be it, was first time using hollowing system. I paid a lot more attention on the second hollowing form to make sure I was at center and did not have a problem. I was paying more attention because it was shallower (5” deep and could see the bottom plus wider opening).

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Could have it come loose as you shut down?

No it was in the middle of hollowing, the whole piece started wobbling so I turned it off and had to tighten it again. Got lose one more time so I used the set screws to make sure it stays on. I was doing a 9”x3.25” top, 2.5” bottom.

 

[Michael Mills]

Not saying it is the case but could there be a miscommunication?
I have seven Nova chucks and none came with a washer to use to tighten the insert to the spindle.
However, they all came with a washer (very small leather) used with the setscrew in the chuck body when securing the insert into the chuck itself.

I have heard of folks using lead shot or brass (BB) when securing the insert to the spindle to prevent damage to the spindle thread.

 

[JeffSmith]

I prefer to hollow a lot of things in reverse - the set screw becomes necessary. As has been mentioned, McMaster Carr sells the brass and nylon tipped set screws. They're pretty cheap and protect from thread damage - I bought a couple dozen and slowly changed out nearly every screw as I use them...

 

[Dean Center]

Perhaps the OP is referring to the approx. 1/8" diameter disc that is used between the bottom of the set screw and the metal threads of the spindle, and not a washer at the shoulder on the headstock. Nova chucks come with these little discs, which are designed to protect the threads from tightening the set screw as Gerald commented. They're very easy to overlook or lose and when I did so, I made a new one out of gasket material. (cut with a used .22 cartridge if I remember correctly) They are also supplied in a Nova chuck small parts kit that includes replacement jaw screws. (which also like to disappear)

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

I agree: nylon washers are UNSAFE unless you use a set screw.

Here's my horror story. Craft Supplies gives a free nylon washer with every chuck sold. So after turning seriously for perhaps six months I thought: might as well put on a nylon washer. All was well until I had a larger heavy bowl reversed on the megajumbo jaws. This was a couple years back, so I don't remember the details...but the whole thing unscrewed itself and landed still spinning on the shop floor.

The bowl was ruined, the Mega jumbo jaws were bent, and I would have been hurt (possibly seriously) if I was in the line of fire.

Conclusions:
1. Do not use a nylon washer unless you also use a set screw.
2. Seat the chuck on the spindle by hand, spinning with a small amount of momentum.
3. This is important: For heavy work, if you don't use a set screw—Keep your tool rest close enough to your work that it would stop a heavy piece from unscrewing.

I've never had a piece unscrew since since. Thankfully my local machinist let me use his hydraulic press and I was able to right the mega jumbo jaws to within acceptable tolerances.

--And if anyone wants a nylon washer or two...I have a half dozen or more still in the package.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bending cast aluminum isn't good ... bending it back can be scary because of the risk of work hardening.

And if anyone wants a nylon washer or two...I have a half dozen or more still in the package.

I have several additional washers that I can contribute. The good news is that they are useful for shimming a short table leg.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you don't tighten the lug nuts on your vehicles wheel it will also fall off when you least expect it.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Bending cast aluminum isn't good ... bending it back can be scary because of the risk of work hardening.

You're absolutely right, Bill. Thanks for pointing that out. I ran it past two seasoned machinists, so the small amount I tweaked it back got the okay, but if it was much, it would be best to go straight to the recycling.

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you don't tighten the lug nuts on your vehicles wheel it will also fall off when you least expect it.

That is so true. It almost happened to me once when a shop rotated the tires on my car and forget to put the lug nuts back on one of the wheels. Something felt strange so I stopped to investigate. I "borrowed" a lug nut from each of the other wheels so I could make it back to the shop. They were nonchalant about the whole deal and asked if I wanted them to replaced the missing nuts. OK, I'll admit it, there actually is such a thing as a stupid question.

 

[Ely Walton]

Here is the specific brass-tipped set screw I bought to fit my Nova SN2 adapter for 1-1/4x8 spindle: p/n 94085A128 https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/123/3073/=1a597ee . The standard screw had the cup point, which made a little mark when tightened. I think the brass tip will still hold and yet not harm the spindle.

Ely

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Here is the specific brass-tipped set screw I bought to fit my Nova SN2 adapter for 1-1/4x8 spindle: p/n 94085A128 https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/123/3073/=1a597ee . The standard screw had the cup point, which made a little mark when tightened. I think the brass tip will still hold and yet not harm the spindle.

Ely

I ordered the same ones and got them in Saturday

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

About the plastic or other material washers used, makes for a good chance you will get wobble or and vibration, WHY ?, well take that chuck and back it off half a turn or so, and then see if you can wiggle that chuck.

Surprised by the amount you can ??, threads do have and need some room to be able to have spin these pieces onto each other, now when you stick a washer between your chuck and the spindle, that material can will give as it is able to be compressed.

Now take a metal lathe and install a screw-on chuck, there will be no washers used, and the forces tightening the chuck when cutting metal are a lot higher than on the wood lathe turning wood, and these metal turning chucks all come off just fine every time, I have used and done this enough times to tell you that they do not get stuck, however these surfaces and threads are properly machined, not so much on low cost wood lathes.

The case about the set screws use on the wood lathes are to be used on spindles that have a groove machined in the spindle just past the threads end, see picture.


The problem now is that there is no agreed distance of where the groove is, and then we have lathes that do not have the groove in the spindle, but some chucks have the threaded holes and turners now want to use the set screw, even when there is not a good place to screw it down to, the setscrew with soft tip is one way to still be able to use it.

I have another manner you can use the setscrew, if you are not against making your lathe safer to use, a flat spot ground on your spindle will work, and yes I know the objection to that is, every chuck screw-hole will tighten at a different spot, so you mark that chuck where the flat spot is and drill and tap it where it will screw down to that spot.

 

[Curt Fuller]

Every time the subject of set screws comes up I've meant to ask this. What chucks have set screws? I have 2 Vicmarc 120s. 2 Vicmarc 100s, a Oneway Talon and a Barracuda and none of them have a set screw. Do you have your chucks drilled and tapped for set screws or do some chucks I haven't used come that way?
Also, I completely agree with the comments about not using a washer. But I use one anyway. It's less than 1/16th thick nylon and it was on my used Vicmarc when I bought it. I'm not turning jet engine parts and any slight problems it might cause are more than paid back by not fighting to get chucks loose.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Every time the subject of set screws comes up I've meant to ask this. What chucks have set screws? I have 2 Vicmarc 120s. 2 Vicmarc 100s, a Oneway Talon and a Barracuda and none of them have a set screw. Do you have your chucks drilled and tapped for set screws or do some chucks I haven't used come that way?
Also, I completely agree with the comments about not using a washer. But I use one anyway. It's less than 1/16th thick nylon and it was on my used Vicmarc when I bought it. I'm not turning jet engine parts and any slight problems it might cause are more than paid back by not fighting to get chucks loose.

I am not sure if all Novas have it but my SN2s do. Also most Novas use an adapter and some of them have the set screw and some do not. I am not sure but I thought my Barracuda had one , will have to check as I usually do not use the set screw.

 

[John Torchick]

My SN2 has a set screw.

 

[hockenbery]

Every time the subject of set screws comes up I've meant to ask this. What chucks have set screws? I have 2 Vicmarc 120s. 2 Vicmarc 100s, a Oneway Talon and a Barracuda and none of them have a set screw. Do you have your chucks drilled and tapped for set screws or do some chucks I haven't used come that way?
Also, I completely agree with the comments about not using a washer. But I use one anyway. It's less than 1/16th thick nylon and it was on my used Vicmarc when I bought it. I'm not turning jet engine parts and any slight problems it might cause are more than paid back by not fighting to get chucks loose.

ONEWAY talon and strongholds will have the set screws in the adapters. I can’t say for sure if the adapters have set screws for all thread sizes. There may be some that do not.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Every time the subject of set screws comes up I've meant to ask this. What chucks have set screws? I have 2 Vicmarc 120s. 2 Vicmarc 100s, a Oneway Talon and a Barracuda and none of them have a set screw. Do you have your chucks drilled and tapped for set screws or do some chucks I haven't used come that way?
Also, I completely agree with the comments about not using a washer. But I use one anyway. It's less than 1/16th thick nylon and it was on my used Vicmarc when I bought it. I'm not turning jet engine parts and any slight problems it might cause are more than paid back by not fighting to get chucks loose.

Vicmarc uses a different method to prevent chucks from unscrewing. There is a retainer that fits in the annular slot on the thread adapter. Obviously, they assume that everybody has a Vicmarc lathe.

All the Oneway thread adapters for chucks and faceplates that I have seen have drilled and tapped holes for setscrews. Same is true for Oneway faceplates that are direct threaded.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

All the Oneway adapters have two threaded holes in them also faceplates, all have 6 mm threads in them IIRC, but there is one exception, the adapter to fit the Shopsmith has ¼” threading in it, the reason was to keep the setscrew the same as what the Shopsmith uses I was told.

 

[Bill Boehme]

All the Oneway adapters have two threaded holes in them also faceplates, all have 6 mm threads in them IIRC, but there is one exception, the adapter to fit the Shopsmith has ¼” threading in it, the reason was to keep the setscrew the same as what the Shopsmith uses I was told.

The attachment says that there are two setscrews provided with each accessory, but I've never seen an adapter that included setscrews. Maybe at one time they might have included the setscrews, but unless they are tightened down it would be a very bad idea to leave them loose in the adapter.