Scrapers, carbides, and gouges

[hockenbery]

What tools have you moved through?
This Post in another thread this caught my eye.

Robo Hippie Who got me over feeling guilty because I found scrapers to be great for hollowing out bowls.

Turners shouldn’t feel guilty about about using a tool that yields results safely and repeatedly.
Turner’s should always consider what tools might work better for them or how they might use their tool of choice better.
We should be tolerant of all the turners using different tools than we use.

I learned to hollow bowls using a scraper. It works. When I learned to use gouges they worked better for me with less effort. I switched and concentrated on using the gouges better.

The best scraper turner I know once told me gouges might be a better tool to use. They might give him a better surface in a shorter time. He then added he thought it would take 6 months to find out and he couldn’t afford the loss of production to experiment.
There are many production turning shops where scrapers are the go to tool.

A knew a turner who won awards only using carbides. He was good with them. His finished pieces left no clues about the tools that turned them.
All the early work I saw done with carbides was too rough to suit me but the folks doing that work were happy with it. I was anti-carbide…..
Then I was gifted a Hunter #4 and told to use it for endgrain hollowing. One goblet and I was sold.

Often in discussions we tend to look down our noses at folks who don’t use our tool.

I got looked down on when I started using the Jamieson hollowing system.
lots of my friends made made subtle comments about how important and better it was to use hand held tools.
I just knew I had so much more control and zero stress on the body using the Jamieson.
Then pretty much every critic went to a trapped systems for doing larger forms.
I still do ornament balls hand held - I’m good at it and there’s no stress on the body hollowing a 3” sphere.
I hollow by scraping…. Right back to the beginning

 

[Gerry Patton]

Thanks for that. I pretty much use whatever gets the job done for me. I’m not a purist for sure. Use bowl gouges, skews, scrapers and carbides.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I got into carbide tools when I was fairly new. Since I bought a decent bowl gouge and sharpening system I rarely use the carbides any more.

 

[Aaron Harris]

I agree, Al-Being a pragmatist in every area of my life, I am certainly learning to use turning tools in sometimes unorthodox ways. Every discipline or hobby has its dogmas and its self-appointed guardians of "the way things have always been done." There can be valuable in that up to a point, but you can learn a lot by experimenting too (carefully, in turning especially!).

Oh, and I also love scrapers and Hunter carbides. I've got two, and the Hercules is next on my list. But like Rusty, the standard carbide set I got early on gathers a lot of dust these days (literally).

 

[Brian Gustin]

Good one, Hockenberry. I use 'em all sometimes on the same project , there's times when I'm not getting the cut I want for whatever reason on a particular wood, so I might switch from gouge to carbide scraper, then on to neg rake scraper, and if none of them seem to work, I then try adjusting my angle of approach (tool rest, the way I'm holding the tool, whatever) - All above on the assumption I am using freshly sharpened tools..

Whatever I use be it scraper, gouge, carbide, skew, etc - each one is a TOOL , and to my way of thinking, whichever tool gets the job done is the right tool to be using on that particular job, as long as it is cutting cleanly, cutting where I want it to, and cutting safely.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I started out with carbide tools. Since I spent quite a bit of money on them I still use them, mostly to create tenons; square to flatten the bottom and create the appropriate size tenon and the diamond shaped tool to create the proper dovetail. Sometimes I still use the round cutter to hollow or create an outside shape, but mainly now use my HSS gouge, both create an outside shape and remove the inside of the bowl. I always shear scrape with the gouge and mostly use that tool for everything except hollowing. My hollowiing tools are HSS from Trent Bosch but I do have an extreme curved carbide that I sometimes use because the result is a smoother inside. It really doesn't matte what tools you use as long as the result is what you want.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I am an admitted tool junkie and I can agree with each of you on your thoughts and uses of your tools. When I teach a student he is getting the results of 20+ years of tool testing, yes I am biased in what I tell them and have them use because of those years. I point out other tools that will do the same job just not as easily as what I'm showing them. I teach that the steel in the tools they use is important. The type of carbide tool is important. I have never used an Easy Wood type of tool because I had mostly Thompson scrapers and a few HSS scrapers and they do the same thing, they scrape not cut. You get a pro who states in hus demo that the scraper has to have a burr and that the burr will last for about 25 seconds and then precedes to use it for 6 minutes. I worked for GE operating big boring mills using carbide to cut steel and I tried using the best grades of carbide at that time on wood, it did not even come close to working. But then Mike Hunter brought out his line of nano grade carbide tools and Wow they cut like nobody's business. I can go on ad infinitum about different tools, systems and grinding choices and the student can get out of everything I teach what they want as I'm giving this to them free of charge. One thing I do stress to the utmost is joining a club because woodturners are the most giving group that there is.

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

What tools have you moved through?
This Post in another thread this caught my eye.


Turners shouldn’t feel guilty about about using a tool that yields results safely and repeatedly.
Turner’s should always consider what tools might work better for them or how they might use their tool of choice better.
We should be tolerant of all the turners using different tools than we use.

I learned to hollow bowls using a scraper. It works. When I learned to use gouges they worked better for me with less effort. I switched and concentrated on using the gouges better.

The best scraper turner I know once told me gouges might be a better tool to use. They might give him a better surface in a shorter time. He then added he thought it would take 6 months to find out and he couldn’t afford the loss of production to experiment.
There are many production turning shops where scrapers are the go to tool.

A knew a turner who won awards only using carbides. He was good with them. His finished pieces left no clues about the tools that turned them.
All the early work I saw done with carbides was too rough to suit me but the folks doing that work were happy with it. I was anti-carbide…..
Then I was gifted a Hunter #4 and told to use it for endgrain hollowing. One goblet and I was sold.

Often in discussions we tend to look down our noses at folks who don’t use our tool.

I got looked down on when I started using the Jamieson hollowing system.
lots of my friends made made subtle comments about how important and better it was to use hand held tools.
I just knew I had so much more control and zero stress on the body using the Jamieson.
Then pretty much every critic went to a trapped systems for doing larger forms.
I still do ornament balls hand held - I’m good at it and there’s no stress on the body hollowing a 3” sphere.
I hollow by scraping…. Right back to the beginning

Love your thinking Al, Does it matter if a poet uses a pencil or a computer, it's the finish product that matters. Different tools do different things differently, profound!! What ever works for you, have at it.

 

[Monty Ivy]

I've gotten away from using the entry level carbide tools of the insert-on-a-stick variety. I do use Hunter Tool System carbide tools for certain things. The important difference is that these have a bevel and work just like a traditional gouge and provide a high quality machine finish.

 

[robo hippy]

Since I use the Big Ugly tool so much, I have no need for carbide scrapers. Some day, I will try the Hunter carbide tools. Though I am not an engineer, but think like one, I blame my dad who is an engineer, we say, "If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway." I am always experimenting. Maybe some day, I will be competent with a skew chisel....

robo hippy

 

[Mark Jundanian]

What tools have you moved through?
This Post in another thread this caught my eye.

Turners shouldn’t feel guilty about about using a tool that yields results safely and repeatedly.
Turner’s should always consider what tools might work better for them or how they might use their tool of choice better.
We should be tolerant of all the turners using different tools than we use.

Good thread, Al. (And for the record, I don't feel guilty).

So let me count here... I have 26 tools with carbide at the business end. These include single and double bevel scrapers and Hunter style cupped cutters, and about 18 of these see regular use. I have about an equal number of tools with some form of HSS at the cutting edge, only about a 16 of which have any hope of leaving their drawers. Among those that do get used are bowl and spindle gouges and several negative rake scrapers.

I will echo, and I hope amplify, what has been said, I use the best tool for the job. More specifically, the best tool for the job at hand and the best tool for the hand doing that job. In the rare instance that I am making a simple bowl I'll probably use a bowl gouge (after all it's got bowl right there in the name), but if I am making one of my sculptural pieces I need tools that I can sculpt with. I spend a lot of time designing and planning out a piece before the first shaving falls. So for me, the prime directive is to achieve the intended contour line. Sure, it's a nice thing if that contoured surface needs less sanding, but that is not the first order consideration, for me. The wrong curve is wrong, no matter how smooth it may be. So a corollary, it matters what someone is making, and what they may want to make in the future.

The "tools" I am phasing out are (integral) handles. I have found that sharpening HSS tools is easier if the handles come off (and they are easier to transport). And when it comes to carbide scrapers and shear cutters I mount these in an articulated arm rig whether it's an exterior or interior contour I'm cutting. The rig holds them in perfect position, much better than I can do by hand.

 

[Dave Hulett]

I have gouges, scrapers, and Hunter carbides and use them all, all the time. Which one depends on the project, the kind of wood, green or dry, direction of the grain. Each tool has it's plus and minus. What ever works, I use!

 

[Michael Anderson]

I started turning with scrapers because I bought a used lathe and it came with a set of Rikon’s carbide tools. But, after a while I switched to traditional tools. To be honest, I enjoy turning much more with trad tools than I do scrapers. However, I concede that the most important thing is likely to use the tool best suited for the task at hand. Though, there are so many available that the “best” tool is arguable. I’m pretty sure French turners do everything with bedans. Kidding…

 

[Neil S]

I’m pretty sure French turners do everything with bedans. Kidding…

I know that was written in jest, Michael, but I have seen Ulf Jansson (Swedish) turning the outside of his bowls with a skew... ie in cutting mode with the bevel rubbing. So, maybe....

 

[Neil S]

I have one carbide tool and I get it out if I'm hitting included stones in a root ball... it would be shame to spoil the edge on one of my good gouges. And, I would definitely get a carbide bowl gouge for that purpose if one ever became available.

 

[Michael Anderson]

I know that was written in jest, Michael, but I have seen Ulf Jansson (Swedish) turning the outside of his bowls with a skew... ie in cutting mode with the bevel rubbing. So, maybe....

You know, I watched a video a few days of ago of Ulf hollowing the inside of a face grain bowl (not end grain with a ring tool and a continental gouge. Made it seem like the ideal toolset. Impressed, to say the least.

 

[William Fordham]

I'm self-taught and probably do everything wrong but, I like what I turn out and have even won a couple of amateur awards. In the end, if you are happy with what you make, isn't that what matters?