Sandpaper Test

[Mark Jundanian]

I got this link from another forum. The sandpaper tests may be of interest to some here. Spoiler alert, Cubitron Xtract comes out on top.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZDCRFi8dKY

 

[Lars Hansen]

Actually, there was a "pre-spoiler alert" here (#12) complete with discussion:

https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/anybody-here-using-the-japanese-finkat-sandpapers.18888/#post-191135

I had time to test some in 80 and 120 with velcro backing but without airflow, just plain 2" home cut discs. Impressivily effective but the price...

 

[robo hippy]

I am looking into getting the cubitron in belts for my drum sander. 3M only wants to sell to contractors, not the general public. I don't think they have a clue as to how big the hobby market is. The cubitron discs are available in 2 and 3 inch, but I have gotten used to the ones from Vince which are 2 3/8 and 3 3/8, and prefer that over size disc. The hooks from the interface mandrill can leave 80 grit scratches.

robo hippy

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I'm not very knowledgeable about mesh sandpaper, which I think the 3M Xtract is. I've stayed away from it because, on RO sanders, I need to buy interface pads and I didn't think that you could use mesh when you are sanding on the lathe by hand with just paper.

Does anyone have a source which explains more about mesh paper and what is required. It seems like the cost per gram of mesh goes up when you factor in replacement of the interface pads (or maybe they aren't use up fast enough to make a significant difference).

 

[brian horais]

My sandpaper of choice is Abranet mesh made by Mirka. It is available in a wide range of grits and shapes, including circular discs, small sheets and rolls. Abranet attaches very nicely to velcro sandpaper holders. Woodcraft makes the small (2 or 3 inch diameter) abranet discs and velcro holders for sanding small areas. Abranet does not bind up with sanding grit, lasts much longer than traditional sandpaper and can be folded and shapes for sanding unusual surfaces. I have tried all of the mesh sanding manufactures and came back to Abranet for its quality and sturdiness. It is an excellent for any type of sanding.

 

[John Hicks]

The cubitron 3" is the bomb! If you can even find any that is

 

[Steve Worcester]

I watched his video, and for the type of test, this is probably the most fair I have seen out them all. But, it was also on kiln dried flat boards and I was never able to figure out what grit system 3M uses, ANSI or FEPA. So a 120 grit test would not really be fair because a FEPA/P grit 120 would have a 125 micron particle size and a CAMI would be somewhat smaller, but between 125 and 100 micron. Typically, European manufacturers use FEPA/P Grit and US manufacturers use CAMI, China, that's a bigger issue. But they don't always state which system they use.
You can read my comments on the YouTube video, which I posted 6 months ago, and have not been replied to. You can download a grit chart HERE
After seeing this, we got a bunch of Cubitron, cut it to 2" and 3" disks and sent it out to a bunch of people to test. Some really liked it, others were not impressed. On oily/sappy/wet wood, it loaded up bad and didn't clean up well (hitting it on a crepe pad). It performed worse on removing a film finish, like sanding off lacquer, which is a tough ask.
I also don't like that it only goes up to 320. 3M has a weird distribution channel and the pricing would have been ok but a big commitment for a product that I didn't feel worked better than Abranet or not a whole lot better than the Mirka Gold we sell. 3Ms distributors sell more into the industrial channel, but the product is out there.

We will have a new product in the next couple months that we are testing and seems really promising.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I'm not very knowledgeable about mesh sandpaper, which I think the 3M Xtract is. I've stayed away from it because, on RO sanders, I need to buy interface pads and I didn't think that you could use mesh when you are sanding on the lathe by hand with just paper.

Does anyone have a source which explains more about mesh paper and what is required. It seems like the cost per gram of mesh goes up when you factor in replacement of the interface pads (or maybe they aren't use up fast enough to make a significant difference).

It isn't really paper per se.. It is a pretty strong mesh (Can't tear it no matter how much I've abused it) and the 5" disks work fine (and stick better than properly sized paper disks) with my DeWalt ROS, after I switch out paper I can set the used ROS paper aside and get some more use out of it at the lathe (the very flexible mesh , I almost want to say Kevlar, lets it conform to beads and coves pretty nicely) It's my Go-To sandpaper anymore, it outlasts my (I used to use Serious Grit paper) older regular sandpaper by 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 easily. I read about "might need an interface pad" when I first got my sample pack long ago, but so far, this Xtract is the ONLY sandpaper I have ever used that does NOT come flying off the sander (or drill mandrel) after so much use.. I consider 3M Cubitron to be THE premium sandpaper for any woodworking project and well worth the initial higher cost per piece.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

It isn't really paper per se.. It is a pretty strong mesh (Can't tear it no matter how much I've abused it) and the 5" disks work fine (and stick better than properly sized paper disks) with my DeWalt ROS, after I switch out paper I can set the used ROS paper aside and get some more use out of it at the lathe (the very flexible mesh , I almost want to say Kevlar, lets it conform to beads and coves pretty nicely) It's my Go-To sandpaper anymore, it outlasts my (I used to use Serious Grit paper) older regular sandpaper by 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 easily. I read about "might need an interface pad" when I first got my sample pack long ago, but so far, this Xtract is the ONLY sandpaper I have ever used that does NOT come flying off the sander (or drill mandrel) after so much use.. I consider 3M Cubitron to be THE premium sandpaper for any woodworking project and well worth the initial higher cost per piece.

The purpose of the interface pad is not to keep the "paper" in place. It's to prevent wear and damage to the RO sander's pad. Without the interface pad, the RO sander pad will wear and need to be replaced. With the interface pad, the wear will be on that and that, of course, is much cheaper to replace than the sander's pad.

 

[Dean Center]

I briefly tried one size of the Cubitron mesh discs and had a hard time keeping them on my velcro disc holder. Has anybody else tried power sanding with it and what was your experience?

 

[Brian Gustin]

The purpose of the interface pad is not to keep the "paper" in place. It's to prevent wear and damage to the RO sander's pad. Without the interface pad, the RO sander pad will wear and need to be replaced. With the interface pad, the wear will be on that and that, of course, is much cheaper to replace than the sander's pad.

Ah. I see.. Well, oddly enough, I don't seem to have an issue with wear on my sander pad (I have a spare laying around, as it started to get gummed up with fibers from poor quality sanding disks, then I got the bright idea to use my file card brush to clean up the Hook & Loop facing, have not had any problems since, and it's been a year... and I figure if I get a year's almost daily use out of a sanding pad, which is actually a "consumable" part, I'm doing pretty good)

 

[Brian Gustin]

I briefly tried one size of the Cubitron mesh discs and had a hard time keeping them on my velcro disc holder. Has anybody else tried power sanding with it and what was your experience?

Suppose perhaps it is the holder? I got mine I think from woodturner's wonders (6 of the roloc type holders to go with a roloc drill mandrel - 2 inch ) and have been using mostly 80 grit 3" cubitron, but have had no problems on rather limited use of the cubitron xtract paper.... but then I also don't have my wave edge disks (also from woodturners wonders) flying off those pads either (unless I catch a disk in a crack, chip or on natural edge.. and even then not every time)

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Typically, European manufacturers use FEPA/P Grit and US manufacturers use CAMI, China, that's a bigger issue. But they don't always state which system they use.
You can read my comments on the YouTube video, which I posted 6 months ago, and have not been replied to. You can download a grit chart HERE

I admit this has been frustrating, but do you find any makers still using CAMI? I thought FEPA had pretty much taken over.

(There are 860 comments on the video, so I was not able to find yours).

 

[Kevin Jenness]

I've been using 220 and 320# fim-backed Cubitron discs on my 5' Random orbit sander and like them a lot. I will make it my standard as I use up my old Klingspor discs. Will have to try out the mesh-backed product. For some reason the film backing is much more costly than mesh. I got it thinking the mesh might not be as durable on interrupted surfaces like the burls with voids I seem to have a lot of. No problem with keeping it on a backing pad that is not worn out. The performance and longevity definitely outweigh any cost difference in the 5" discs. It seems to me to outlast Abranet. I would like to try smaller discs head to head against Vince's blue discs, which I typically use on the interior of vessels and for rough sanding exterior surfaces with a rotary sander/polisher. Where are 2" and 3" Cubitron discs available?

 

[Brian Gustin]

Where are 2" and 3" Cubitron discs available?

Check at Taytools.com - Taylor Tool Works.. Thats where I been getting mine from both 5 inch and 3 inch (dont think they have 2 inch)

 

[Steve Worcester]

I admit this has been frustrating, but do you find any makers still using CAMI? I thought FEPA had pretty much taken over.

(There are 860 comments on the video, so I was not able to find yours)

My question is the second one down

 

[Bob Brown]

I am looking into getting the cubitron in belts for my drum sander. 3M only wants to sell to contractors, not the general public. I don't think they have a clue as to how big the hobby market is. The cubitron discs are available in 2 and 3 inch, but I have gotten used to the ones from Vince which are 2 3/8 and 3 3/8, and prefer that over size disc. The hooks from the interface mandrill can leave 80 grit scratches.

robo hippy

Have a contractor order it for you. Probably get a better price also

 

[robo hippy]

A local place will do that for me. Ideal would be to find a contractor who wants to sell some, then I could get various grits rather than one grit. To purchase, they want 35 yard rolls, and I think it is 8 rolls as a minimum. That is basically the width of the roll they cut the strips from.

robo hippy

 

[Neil S]

The hooks from the interface mandrill can leave 80 grit scratches.

robo hippy

That was a frustration until I figured out where they were coming from.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I am looking into getting the cubitron in belts for my drum sander. 3M only wants to sell to contractors, not the general public. I don't think they have a clue as to how big the hobby market is. The cubitron discs are available in 2 and 3 inch, but I have gotten used to the ones from Vince which are 2 3/8 and 3 3/8, and prefer that over size disc. The hooks from the interface mandrill can leave 80 grit scratches.

robo hippy

I tried to scratch the wood with the hook and loop and haven't had any luck. That must be some real durable H&L

 

[robo hippy]

Well, some times I think the edge of the mylar sheet the hook is on can do that. So can the thicker abrasive backings. Many have gone to micro hooks, which I don't think will bother the wood as much as the old stiffer ones would.

robo hippy