Sanding end grain Claro table rounds? Value for charity donation?

[Leland Frayseth]

I turned some Claro plugs to fill the contraction holes (shrunk from 1" to 3/4") after drying these Claro table top rounds. I think those holes and Anchor Seal saved the rounds from cracking after 3 years of drying. I was happy to glue the bottoms on yesterday. Today I will router sled the tops flat and level and start sanding. Do you talented guys and gals have suggestions for me on sandign end grain Claro? What grit should I start and sand down to? I will be keeping a table for me, giving one to the owner of the tree fallen in May 2015 and donating one to Concord Youth Homes Hearts for Hope auction to help traumatized kids and their Moms. What would the value be of the table I donate to charity? Thanking you in advance for your experience and guidance. Leland

 

[Richard Coers]

You didn't glue plywood to the bottom did you? Big mistake in my book. The slabs have to move seasonally, now you restrained them, and they will shrink and crack apart this winter when the slabs shrink. You should never glue solid wood to plywood. Are you asking about value for the auction, or value for you to deduct on your taxes. Deductions can only be made for the cost of materials. You can't deduct your labor or estimated completed value.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

You didn't glue plywood to the bottom did you? Big mistake in my book. The slabs have to move seasonally, now you restrained them, and they will shrink and crack apart this winter when the slabs shrink. You should never glue solid wood to plywood. Are you asking about value for the auction, or value for you to deduct on your taxes. Deductions can only be made for the cost of materials. You can't deduct your labor or estimated completed value.

Hi Richard, yes I glued plywood to the bottoms of the dried table tops. I glued plywood to solid wood in lots of places on the plywood boats I made 20 years ago and it actually keeps the solid wood from splitting especially in the keel (long longitudinal member down the center line) and is recommended by the naval architects Glen-L Witt and Ken Swan whose boat plans I used on and author of boat building with plywood books. Anyway back to my questions I will take any quotes you can offer on the value of the table tops I need to put a value on the donation form the charity has me fill out. I saw a similar table with an asking price of $1,200. Itemizing taxes doesn't do me any good so I will not be claiming it as a deduction. I would welcome your suggestion on what grit I should sand to. I have read and watched YouTube videos and most seem to stop at 150 grit 45 degrees, -45 degrees and 0 degrees with the grain but I have all end grain. Thank you, Leland

 

[Richard Coers]

I can't value a table when all I see is a raw slab for the top. No idea about the legs or anything. I also can't recommend where to start sanding because I can't see the quality of the surface, or if you have any tear out from the router. You'll never convince me that your plywood on solid wood is good practice. I've been making furniture for almost 50 years. I know how much wood moves and I know plywood doesn't.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Leland Those are some nice slabs. I think you may get a better estimate of price on a woodworking forum instead of a turning forum. You might want to try https://thepatriotwoodworker.com/ lots of friendly woodworkers there and lots of experience in pricing flatwork.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Well my forum buddy and new friend Richard Coers the solid wood mahogony, sheers, bow stem, corner knees are glued to the plywood in my 17 year old homemade boat Pegasus she moves 24 mph as you can see in this video from when I had her out last week.

View: https://youtu.be/Narjn-T2bYk
And I assure you no part of her hull or structure is cracked.

I think I have been building with wood for 54 years so a little longer than you.

I will use $1,200 on the form for the table I donate to Concord Youth homes since that is what I found on Etsy for a similar table. The legs will be simple hair pin 3/8" round stock hot rolled mill steel. I did not experience any router tear out of the wood in my final passes on the tops today as you can see by the following photos and I did sand with 80 and 120 grit on my new Harbor Freight Chicago electric 4x24" 10 amp belt sander what a pleasure. You can see the plugs I turned out of walnut on my lathe much nicer than epoxy and sawdust putty I used on a milk stool I made last year.

 

[Bill Boehme]

From the pictures it looks like the router has left some scalloping in the surface. It might be worth taking a skim cut in a crisscross pattern to minimize the sanding. Where to start sanding is hard to say. Start with 120 and if that doesn't quickly level the surface then back down to 100 or 80 or 60 or road gravel if necessary.

In order to maintain surface flatness I have glued full sheets of sandpaper to float glass using spray adhesive. Once you get past the coarse grits then you could use a random orbital sander. Where to stop sanding depends on what kind of finish you apply. For a high gloss finish I go to at least 400 and then level the finish starting with 400 and going until I have the degree of gloss that I want. You might notice that I'm sort of demented when it comes to sanding. My opinion is that a belt sander would be far too aggressive in removing material. I think that you would want to maintain the flatness created using the router fixture.

I think that local climate plays a much more significant role in wood movement up north than it does here. The difference between summer and winter here usually boils down to whether I wear long sleeves or short sleeves. I try to pay attention to cross grain glue ups, but I have glued plywood to solid wood without a problem. What I usually do in cross grain gluing is to limit the area that is actually glued, but around here once wood has thoroughly stabilized there is hardly any seasonal movement. And indoor weather is essentially constant temperature and constant humidity.

Is the value that you are seeking just a number for the sake of having a number or does it have some actual purpose like minimum bid for the auction? Our tax accountant told me that I may as well forget about itemizing anything going forward because of the changes in the tax law. Even when I could itemize, there wasn't any point in counting donated items

 

[hockenbery]

Price comparison to Comparables is common with woodturners as well as in real estate.

But you have to compare apples to apples and make adjustments for features and flaws.

Questions you need to answer
Are the comps end or face grain surface ? Does an end grain surface add value? Decrease value?
Are the comps the same species of wood? Does the walnut add value? Decrease value?
Do the comps have plugs? Do the plugs add value? Decrease value?
Do the comps show a plywood edge? Does the plywood edge add value? Decrease value?
Are the comps edge banded? Will you edge band the plywood? does that add value? Decrease value?
Do the comps have cracks? Do the surface cracks add value? Decrease value?
Are the comps’ cracks filled? Will you fill the surface cracks? Does that add value? decrease value?
Is the surface of the comp flawless? Does your surface add value? Decrease value?

Finding a similar size object and using its price is defensible only when the characteristic that add value are taken into account.

A woodturning example - silver inlay has more perceived value than pewter inlay.
A butterfly patch has more perceived value than filled patch.

 

[Hal Taylor]

To answer your question about sanding - you may have to flatten first by planning then sanding in the normal way starting with (probably) 80 grit then proceeding to however smooth you want it. A comment on what it’s worth as a donation - according to my accountant, artists cannot deduct a piece’s perceived worth for tax purposes. One can only deduct costs of materials - not even man hours. Bummer for me when he informed me of this.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Hi Bill, I like your suggestion on gluing sandpaper to plate glass I am going to use that idea in the future. I took out the scallops with 80 grit on my 4x24" belt sander. These pieces are now reading 6-8% moisture, 3 years ago when green they read 54%-OL (over limit). I will be putting my own mix of varnish, linseed oil and paint thinner that will wick into the end grain and stabilize the wood. I want the feel of wood to be there to the touch. In this picture 1 was belt sanded to 80 grit the other 2 sanded 80 and 120 grit with belt sander. I can tell already I am going to want to go to 180 and maybe 220. When filling out Concord Youth Homes charity donation form last year I asked about why they needed a value and the lady said their accounting department needed it. I think they also use the price for the start of bidding at auction based on what they told me my bowls auctioned for last year.

Hi Hockenbery, I will be champfering the plywood edge way back on the underside to make the plywood less visible. I will be addressing the surface cracks and voids today I am not sure how yet but I won't be using inlays, I personally think inlays are ugly in cracks no matter what the material. I will use $1,200 on the charity for table I donate the comparable I found on Etsy covered most of the issues you raised. The other tables go to the owner of the tree and me. To me the table represents a lot of hard work. To the owner of the tree well they got married in that house, the kids were born and grew up there with that tree, they always give me Christmas cookies, I know they will view their table as priceless. In a YouTube a guy called this cut "cookie cutter" where you make a cross cut through a trunk to make a table top I have not heard "cookie cut" in this way, have you?

This is the photo showing one piece belt sanded to 80 grit and the other two 80, 120 grit with belt sander and spritzed with H2O. Thank you for all your input. Leland

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Hi Hal, Here is a close-up of the table sanded to 120 grit, I am going to want to go to 220 after I fill my voids and stabilize the bark inclusions with CA glue. The value is not for my taxes it is used by the charity. On the manhours you know the personal property tax my county assessed my homemade boats the #$!@ tax collector went online to a boat building forum to get manhours others used to build my model boat some guys had posted they spent 1000s of hours and weren't yet finished. I was able to appeal the ad-voloreum tax and get it down to a sensible number. Oh you can see my turned plugs in this picture, so happy I turned them of the same Claro walnut they fit nice, the color matches and they will take the finish like the surrounding wood. Leland

 

[Bill Boehme]

A good friend called me yesterday and said that he had a big post oak tree in his back yard taken down and had the workers cut the same type of "cookie cutter" slices about four inches thick. I told him that post oak splits more than any other wood that I know of. So I gave him a quart of Anchorseal and told him to put a couple heavy coats on the wood and keep it in a cool place. I should have told him to drill out the pith. The odds of the wood not splitting aren't too favorable.

 

[hockenbery]

A good friend called me yesterday and said that he had a big post oak tree in his back yard taken down and had the workers cut the same type of "cookie cutter" slices about four inches thick. I told him that post oak splits more than any other wood that I know of. So I gave him a quart of Anchorseal and told him to put a couple heavy coats on the wood and keep it in a cool place. I should have told him to drill out the pith. The odds of the wood not splitting aren't too favorable.

If he really wants the slabs treat them PEG. AIR drying the wood it is very likely to split it is just physics.

Drying to 6% MC Post oak has a radial shrinkage of 4.30% and a tangential shrinkage of 7.80%

What this means for the 10”diameter growth ring which has a circumference of 31.4”
Is the diameter will shrink to 9.57” and the circumference will shrink to 28.97”
But a circle with a 28.97” circumference has a diameter of 9.22”
Something has to give. A 9.57” block of wood is inside where the ring that wants to close down to 9.22” is.
Can’t happened often without a crack too much stress.

Drying to 6% Black walnut has a 4.2% radial and a 6.2% tangential shrinkage. With drilling out the pith it can dry without cracking severely. Tension will build up but small cracks can relieve them.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Hi Bill, Today I champfered the bottom edge of my plywood so it recedes from view above. I applaud your good friend for giving these "cookie cutters" a try they are not an easy thing to air dry. But the color of air dry wood is so vibrant not like the muddled color in kiln dried wood. I have a 36" diameter "cookie cutter" piece from my neighbor Mike's Chinese elm fallen Sept 2016. I leveled it to 4" thick with the router sled drilled a 1" hole in the pith lathered both sides with Anchor Seal and sticker stacked in the shade in my shed. Last summer we had some 110F days and it cracked, I put the ratchet strap around the perimeter, it hasn't broken in half yet. I think maybe I should have made it 3" thick, I dunno, my California walnut rounds were 3-3/8" thick and I took them out once during the drying process to level them to 3" because they developed a concave shape. Pictures below of my champfered table bottoms and my Chinese elm "cookie cutter" with 2 more years to dry. Leland

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Hi Hokenbery, Where did you get the Shrikage vs Species data from? I like it and want more. Recently I bought the book "Wood" by Eric Meier which has some physical properties of wood species in it but not the good stuff you excerpted from in the thread above. Thank you, Leland

 

[Bill Boehme]

If he really wants the slabs treat them PEG. AIR drying the wood it is very likely to split it is just physics.

Drying to 6% MC Post oak has a radial shrinkage of 4.30% and a tangential shrinkage of 7.80%

What this means for the 10”diameter growth ring which has a circumference of 31.4”
Is the diameter will shrink to 9.57” and the circumference will shrink to 28.97”
But a circle with a 28.97” circumference has a diameter of 9.22”
Something has to give. A 9.57” block of wood is inside where the ring that wants to close down to 9.22” is.
Can’t happened often without a crack too much stress.

Drying to 6% Black walnut has a 4.2% radial and a 6.2% tangential shrinkage. With drilling out the pith it can dry without cracking severely. Tension will build up but small cracks can relieve them.

View attachment 25411

I just happen to have two blocks of PEG 1000 that I bought about fourteen years ago when I was still a dumb beginner. After reading a lot of information about the problems dealing with the stuff, I lost my enthusiasm for using it. I also discovered that it is unstable over the long term and the long molecular chains apparently break down into smaller chains. I am thinking that I ought to send it to the dump. These two blocks remained in solid block form until last year when they suddenly liquefied and started leaking out of their plastic bag.

Post oak usually develops a lot of small cracks rather than one big crack. There's a better chance that the wood won't split if it happens to be a cross with blackjack oak which is also very common around here. Blackjack oak has interlocking grain and I discovered when I was a teenager that it is impossible to split for firewood.

 

[hockenbery]

Hi Hokenbery, Where did you get the Shrikage vs Species data from? I like it and want more. Recently I bought the book "Wood" by Eric Meier which has some physical properties of wood species in it but not the good stuff you excerpted from in the thread above. Thank you, Leland

The cool thing about wood movement is: it is fairly predictable with some variance.
Johannese Michaleson who created the wooden cowboy hat uses anticipated wood movement to form the shape.

I do a demo on working with green wood. I show some slides, rough a green bowl for drying and return a dried bowl. There is a thread on this with the videos of a demo in the tips section. I try to cover the fundamentals of working with green wood, wood movement and basic bowl turning.
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/working-with-green-wood.11626/

Bruce Hoadly Understanding Wood is an excellent reference on wood movement and Basic identification.
It includes charts of shrinkage.

The forestry service has several wood shrinkage charts. This article has a good one
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1957/peck57a.pdf

Wood central has taken the forestry service chart and simplified it. But oven dry shrinkage is not as useful as. an 8% or 6% shrinkage values.
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/woodmove.shtml

 

[Mike Brazeau]

Interesting thread. Curious what role the plywood plays. Please post the finished tables when completed. I am drying a couple of plain old ash cookies from a tree that came down at our church last year. One has dried with no split and the other has one split which I have not yet decided what to do with. Probably fill with some contrasting epoxy mixture. Going to turn some simple legs from other ash pieces from the same tree, so I have a couple of places available to put my beer when relaxing on my deck. These cookie tables are definitely hot these days with the Millenials, who know nothing about wood and don't care.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

The cool thing about wood movement is: it is fairly predictable with some variance.
Johannese Michaleson who created the wooden cowboy hat uses anticipated wood movement to form the shape.

I do a demo on working with green wood. I show some slides, rough a green bowl for drying and return a dried bowl. There is a thread on this with the videos of a demo in the tips section. I try to cover the fundamentals of working with green wood, wood movement and basic bowl turning.
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/working-with-green-wood.11626/

Bruce Hoadly Understanding Wood is an excellent reference on wood movement and Basic identification.
It includes charts of shrinkage.

The forestry service has several wood shrinkage charts. This article has a good one
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1957/peck57a.pdf

Wood central has taken the forestry service chart and simplified it. But oven dry shrinkage is not as useful as. an 8% or 6% shrinkage values.
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/woodmove.shtml

Thank you Hockenbery I just ordered the book "Understanding Wood" by Bruce Hoadly from Amazon. I am looking forward to studying the charts of shrinkage. I will read your other references in your note too. Thank you for being so helpful. Leland

 

[Stan Semeniuk]

Hi Leland, this has been a very interesting read. I tried my hand at a slab coffee table a few years back and it had a pretty good crack in it. I went ahead and built it anyway and put a butterfly key across the split and it has held up well so far. Good luck.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Mike Brazeau I see your location is Ontario, would you please reply with pictures of your Ash cookies? I read the Emerald green ash borer is active in Michigan do you have them in Ontario? I picked up 3000# of Modesto ash recently and after cutting it into bowl blanks I had to cull about 800# out due to punky wood and bore holes. I bagged the bowl blanks to keep from drying until I rough turned the bowls and found this little guy in one of the bags. Did the Emerald ash borer change his coat from green to orange when he moved to California? The bore holes in the pieces I threw out are quite large maybe 3/16" diameter. Does that sound like an ash borer? The tree fell on a car in a storm is why they cut it up and I got the wood alert, I am pretty sure from the punky wood it has been sick a few years and was weak. Thank you. Leland

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Hi Leland, this has been a very interesting read. I tried my hand at a slab coffee table a few years back and it had a pretty good crack in it. I went ahead and built it anyway and put a butterfly key across the split and it has held up well so far. Good luck.

Hi Stan, I love your slab table you did a beautiful job I like the dog in the background is that a lab? I have 2 labs. What is the wood your table is made of elm? What is the turned piece on the table? Can you point me to the thread documenting creation of that turning or a close up picture of the turning in the gallery section? I am new to the site, just paid my dues last month so I am learning my way around. Thank you, Leland

 

[Stan Semeniuk]

Leland you are right that's my girlfriend Sadie. The slab is actually Queensland Maple. I believe it is from the citrus family but don't quote me on that. The turning is a figured Maple hollow form with a Zebra wood lid and an Ebony handle. I don't have a portfolio in gallery yet, I have only been turning for about 5 yrs as a hobby and class myself as a novice.You will get so much out of this site and there are a lot of great turners here to learn from, it has helped me immensely.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

California walnut (Claro) cookie table 1 of 3 bottom and live edge finished took 3 days to dry we are having south westerly winds bringing cool air from the Pacific Ocean no complaints it is great for sanding. I sanded the top of cookie #1 120 grit with my 4x24 belt sander, I love that thing, 150 and 220 grit with my 1/3 sheet sander and it seemed to get all the scratches out and did not leave pig tails. I applied my first coat of 1/3 paint thinner, 1/3 spar varnish, 1/3 boiled linseed oil and it wicks into that end grain readily especially the sapwood. After that is very dry I may put 8-10 coats of spar varnish on the top. Here are some photos.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

California walnut cookie table #2 sanded to 220 grit and finished with homemade Danish oil. Two 11" Modesto ash bowls from the trunk crotch sanded and finished for the upcoming Hops for Hope charity auction. I love the color and figure of cookie table #2; I may keep it for myself then give it to my God daughter in a few months she loves it. I have to sand and finish cookie #3 tomorrow then finish turn and sand 5 English oak and California live oak bowls on the bench that I soaked in denatured alcohol (DNA) and are hard as stone but they did not crack and they dried very quickly.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hi Bill, I like your suggestion on gluing sandpaper to plate glass I am going to use that idea in the future.

Make a couple handles and glue the to the top side of the plate glass with epoxy. I found out that plate glass doesn't like to be dropped on a concrete floor.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

I am enjoying and using the table 1 radial shrinkage dried to 6% values for elm in the forest service link hokenbery posted and it explains the crack I have in the elm cookie that has 2 more years to dry. Because the pith is so far off center I don't know drilling a bigger hole would have saved that piece from cracking. The book I ordered must be traveling from Niagara Falls NY to California by Yak caravan it won't arrive until Wed but I am looking forward to studying it when it arrives, thank you for the recommendation hokenbery. I had to turn in my donation to Youth Homes Thursday so I donated these Modesto Ash bowls for $250 each on the charity donation form. The Claro walnut tables need a couple weeks more drying and finishing so I did not donate a table but I did find this nearby seller and his walnut tables sell for several thousand dollars, I need to take a salmon fishing trip to the Kalamath river this summer and check out their operation

View: https://youtu.be/N7Vt_TzvScI
The following pictures are walnut cookie #3 sanded, Modesto ash bowls I finished with 1/3 thinner, boiled linseed oil, gloss spar varnish and donated to charity and the hard as stone English oak and California live oak bowls finish turned but not yet sanded that I dried with denatured alcohol 24 hour soak. When I have more green oak rough turned bowls to dry I am going to try the 1/2 water 1/2 dry liquid dish soap pre soak I hear that is easier to finish turn and easier to sand. Happy Memorial Day and Happy Turning.

 

[Mike Brazeau]

Sorry Leland, took me a while to get at this. Just a couple of quick iPad shots of top and bottom merged. I had coated both of these about 2" thick cookies with a generous coat of Watco Danish Oil to slow the drying. They were stored on my garage/shop floor with 3/4" stickers on the floor and between them. I have an infra red heater and temperature goes to just below 50F when I am not working in the workshop. They were cut May 13, 2017 and I weighed them once in a while when I thought of it. Loss was about 27% which is what I usually see when I dry rough outs in my kiln. Today they had gained a small amount since last weighed on January 22 of this year. They are about 2" thick. Since for casual use on our deck, I will likely only sand the top flat and turn some simple legs, maybe three for each so I don't have to fuss with leg lengths then. Will fill crack with epoxy and black toner mix. I used some thin CA on small cracks during the time they were drying.

Oh yes, Emerald Ash Borer. We have had it for probably almost ten years in SW Ontario and it has reached Quebec and I believe not far from Maritime provinces. They tried clearing a swath of trees several km wide about 50 km from the Detroit River years ago and it did nothing to halt it. Until 15 years ago, we lived on a hobby farm about an hour West of Toronto. In spring I used to go and take pictures of the wild flowers. Three years ago I went to the woods with my then new Canon Rebel DSL camera and was astounded to see all of the ash bare of bark and limbs laying all around. That woods is now a park in the fastest growing community in Canada. I live a bit further west now on 4 acres and almost all the small Ash are dead. I have one almost a foot in diameter and it seems to be disease free so far, but expect it will get it this year. Our rural roads are abuzz with tree service companies cutting dead Ash and the firewood folks following them. Seems to be happening far faster than the Dutch Elm which I witnessed as a kid in the 50's. Maybe that is because time definitely moves faster in my 70's! We have had elm survive for probably about 20-25 years to about a foot in diameter and then they go too. A real tragedy.

 

[Leland Frayseth]

The cool thing about wood movement is: it is fairly predictable with some variance.
Johannese Michaleson who created the wooden cowboy hat uses anticipated wood movement to form the shape.

I do a demo on working with green wood. I show some slides, rough a green bowl for drying and return a dried bowl. There is a thread on this with the videos of a demo in the tips section. I try to cover the fundamentals of working with green wood, wood movement and basic bowl turning.
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/working-with-green-wood.11626/

Bruce Hoadly Understanding Wood is an excellent reference on wood movement and Basic identification.
It includes charts of shrinkage.

The forestry service has several wood shrinkage charts. This article has a good one
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1957/peck57a.pdf

Wood central has taken the forestry service chart and simplified it. But oven dry shrinkage is not as useful as. an 8% or 6% shrinkage values.
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/woodmove.shtml

Hi Hockenbery, my Bruce Hoadly "Understanding Wood" book doesn't arrive until Saturday, do you have radial shrinkage numbers for Chinese elm? Your forest service link has some elms but not Chinese elm and it is the densest and hardest. This Chinese elm cookie is 33" in diameter has an 1" crack at the perimeter and reads 11-12% moisture it is 4" thick has been drying for 2 years. Claro walnut drying in the same shed for 3 years and 1"-2" thick is 6-8% moisture. I should probably give it 2 more years in the same shed but I am noodling around bringing it inside the house so I can enjoy it. How much do you think that crack will open up going from 12% to 6%? Do you think I will clown around and break my cookie?

The California walnut cookies are done I am pleased with them.
Thank you, Leland

 

[hockenbery]

I turned a few bowls from it when I lived in MD.
my neighbor who worked part time at a sawmill brought me many gifts over the years.
One day it was a couple of log sections of Chinese elm. The saw mill decided not cut into lumber because they didn’t think it would have value.

This lack of lumber value makes it hard to find in shrinkage tables.

Bowls were sort of white with ho hum grain as I recall.

Hoadly does not list the Chinese elm in the shrinkage table.
The Hoadly table is not real extensive.

Found this listing by your California extension service
http://ucanr.edu/sites/woodybiomass/newsletters/hardwood_information34853.pdf

But they were just a big tease

 

[Leland Frayseth]

I turned a few bowls from it when I lived in MD.
my neighbor who worked part time at a sawmill brought me many gifts over the years.
One day it was a couple of log sections of Chinese elm. The saw mill decided not cut into lumber because they didn’t think it would have value.

This lack of lumber value makes it hard to find in shrinkage tables.

Bowls were sort of white with ho hum grain as I recall.

Hoadly does not list the Chinese elm in the shrinkage table.
The Hoadly table is not real extensive.

Found this listing by your California extension service
http://ucanr.edu/sites/woodybiomass/newsletters/hardwood_information34853.pdf

But they were just a big tease
View attachment 25629

Thank you Hockenbery my Hoadly book arrived yesterday a lot of good information, it is not light reading he's got differential equations in there, nice to see in the tables some things that just make sense like tensile strength perpendicular to the grain is half the parallel values. I think it is best if I leave my 33" diameter Chinese elm cookie to dry for another 2 years in the shed. I love the smell milling it, kind of peppery and spicy.

Here is a picture of the California walnut cookie cast iron pedestal table with California live oak bowl. I cut this cookie right above the cookie with hairpin legs with that ball busting 28" rental chainsaw. There is a reason for the chair in the shade to rest my retired a$$ that was heavy, I worked hard to keep the heavy saw from drifting during the cut. As for the California live oak bowl there is a reason those trees grow so big they have no commercial value, it splits, cracks twists, dries hard as nails, I am happy I have turned all that I reclaimed from a wind blown down tree and I know to stay away from those wood alerts now.

 

[hockenbery]

As for the California live oak bowl there is a reason those trees grow so big they have no commercial value, it splits, cracks twists, dries hard as nails, I am happy I have turned all that I reclaimed from a wind blown down tree and I know to stay away from those wood alerts now.

Don’t get discouraged.
The more experience you get the more success you will have with woods like live oak.
To a certain extent the deck is stacked against newer turners.

Turn a hemispherical shaped bowl with an even 3/16” wall thickness, wash it off, put it in a cardboard box for a day
It won’t crack.
Shallow bowl will have more success.

Successful drying is function of
Starting with crack free wood
Turn an Even wall thickness
Turn Flowing curves
Working quickly so it doesn’t dry out on the lathe ( spritzing with water helps)
Slow the drying

These 4 unfinished florida oak bowls are the woods that people “don’t turn because they crack”.
Largest is 16” in the long dimension. I start with blanks 2-4” longer than wide to accentuate the ovalness.
It also makes a shallow bowl that has a high success rate in drying.
Left is live oak. Bottom is roadside find ( probably laurel oak) top&right are Laurel oak

 

[Leland Frayseth]

Don’t get discouraged.
The more experience you get the more success you will have with woods like live oak.
To a certain extent the deck is stacked against newer turners.

Turn a hemispherical shaped bowl with an even 3/16” wall thickness, wash it off, put it in a cardboard box for a day
It won’t crack.
Shallow bowl will have more success.

Successful drying is function of
Starting with crack free wood
Turn an Even wall thickness
Turn Flowing curves
Working quickly so it doesn’t dry out on the lathe ( spritzing with water helps)
Slow the drying

These 4 unfinished florida oak bowls are the woods that people “don’t turn because they crack”.
Largest is 16” in the long dimension. I start with blanks 2-4” longer than wide to accentuate the ovalness.
It also makes a shallow bowl that has a high success rate in drying.
Left is live oak. Bottom is roadside find ( probably laurel oak) top&right are Laurel oak
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Thank you for the tips Hokenbery. I really like the color, shape and figure in your bowls on the top and right. 3/16" is thin to me right now I can do 1/2 and 3/8 but have not yet ventured thinner. I like your suggestions to go shallow and to accentuate the oblong shape by making length longer than width. I sanded these 2 California live oak yesterday for my friends children and grandchildren to mark up with oil paint pens for their anniversary.

And sanded these English oaks a couple of days ago for my good friends and neighbors. Finished with homemade Danish oil.