Sanding discussion (Diane Vinyard) transferred from another thread......

[Odie]

Kelly, you're right......this deserves a thread of it's own......😀

I suspect this subject is bound to generate plenty of discussion.

Here are the three posts transferred from another thread:

I got a gift cert. to the Woodturners Catalogue. so I'm deciding on what method of sanding I want to invest in. To this day, I use 8.5 x 11 sheets of paper, tear it up, and use my fingers. Needless to say, I've experienced the burn of a spinning piece of wood, and I've tolerated many nicks to my hands😱:. . .THere are many options, . . passive, hook and loop, articulated, it goes on and on. . Does anyone have a suggestion? What do you all like to use? thanks

Diane, you should consider starting a new thread about sanding. But power sanding beats hand sanding any day. If you like the sheets get three sizes of psa discs and a can of 3M 77 spray and cut squares. For most open bowls 2 and 3 inch hook and loop cant be beat. except for those that like squares. For most outside work I do use 5 inch psa Mirka Gold. Since I do this for a living I have a pad for each grit. Both psa and hook and loop. Also I buy 1 yard sheets of Rynogrip with the loop attached for $15 bucks a sheet and cut my own discs. From Industrial Abrasives. I use a 3/8ths variable speed Makita drill with a keyless chuck. But start a new thread and get piles of scoop. Craft Supplies is a great outfit to deal with.

Diane......One of the handiest additions to your sanding routine is a close quarters drill. I have several of them from Sioux and Milwaukee, and I've found the angled head to be of great benefit and applicable to lathe turning. 1300rpm is a good speed for sanding at around 300-400 lathe rpm. There are some of these that are rated at 2500rpm, but I'd stick with the slower variable speed, reversable, close quarter models.

Here's a used one on ebay that looks like a reasonable price at $40+10 shipping.......but, if money were no object, get a new one.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRILL-3-8-C...1-/320821291896?pt=Drills&hash=item4ab2706b78

I suggest you try the Merit "power lock" discs first. The 2" variety is the most handy to use, and what I use the most, but have some of the 3" that I use occasionally. The Powerlock discs are made for industrial use, and last a long time. The little plastic Powerlock attachment system is excellent, and discs can be attached and removed a hundred times, if necessary. This is better than one time use PSA, and hook/loop that wears out after a dozen uses.

It's important to understand that the small pads can be used for larger discs, and used in this way, tighter curves can be managed very well. If trying to go too tight a curve, they will dig in, but once you learn how to do it, there really is very little that can't be done with them. For specific applications, I can resize any of the rubber backing pads to any size I want.......just spin the circumference on a coarse grinding wheel......I use a 6" grinder with 36gt wheel for this. The Powerlock abrasive discs can be resized in the same manner.

Both the standard power lock discs, and the padded "flex edge" discs are good to have in inventory, as you'll have specific applications for both.

I suspect some turners get frustrated with the Powerlock discs at first, and don't hang in there long enough to familiarize themselves with how to best use them.......and, move on to more expensive and less durable options. I started using the Merit Powerlock discs back in the 1980's, and at that time the options were very limited (and so was my budget!)........so, I had to learn how to use what I had available to me! 😀

Now that I'm comfortable in knowing the Powerlock discs will do anything I want them to do, and they are so long lasting when maintained properly with frequent air and rubber disc cleaners.......I find no reason to change horses. I'll note that I still use some of the other options like hook and loop and PSA.......but the Powerlock is my bedrock staple.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Abrasives___Power_Lock?Args=

I don't know if you've tried the Finkat sheet sandpaper yet, but I've found it to be a better sandpaper than the Norton 3X paper that I had been using.......although, the Norton 3X paper is a very good paper.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...rasives___Finkat_Sanding_Paper___finkat?Args=

You'll never get past the need to use your fingers and hand sand on spinning wood......so, resolve yourself to that. But, you can give up hand sanding up until the very highest of grits......yay! :cool2:

ooc

 

[TJ Hamilton]

Sanding is an interest topic.

Here's what I've learned:

http://www.garrettwade.com/hd-flexible-shaft/p/35N06.01/

Yes, get a flex shaft for your drill press. Quiet, easy to control and not fatiguing.

I burned up a couple of right angle drills. For me, they are noisy and tiring to hold.

I use green velcro in 2 and 3 inch sizes but that really doesn't matter. If you've got a drill press you're all set. If you don't, they are cheap and plentiful on Criagslist/Ebay/yardsales and even the Big Boxes.

Enjoy, Tom, in Douglasville, happily sanding with his flex-shaft.

 

[Gynia]

Power sanding is used to improve the surface of the turned object. Some folks find that the power lock disc can dig in the edge of the disc and cause more damage to the surface than improvement to the surface.

The learning curve to power sanding is fairly large. The hook&loop systems which is the most popular has the least chance to cause significant damage to you turned object. The learning curve is that the discs can become hot which can melt the hooks on the pad which hold the sandpaper discs. This problem is overcome after a few hook&loop mandrils have been melted.

Then there is the issue of which discs are best and which mandrils are best. When you are starting out I feel cheep is best. You will go through quite a few mandrils in the first year or two and sandpaper should be switched out when it dulls. When the sandpaper cost $0.25 each we have a tendency to hold onto the discs long after they have worn out. A worn out sanding disc will heat the turning which may result in heat checks. Worn out sanding discs can also promote scratches. So sanding discs which are cheeper can have less of an impact on our frugal nature. "Use sandpaper like someone else is paying for it".

Industrial Abrasives sell mandrils and discs cheaply. There is an outfit in Canada (www.sandpaper.ca) which has a good price on sandpaper when the exchange rate is favorable. vinceswoodnwonders.com has a blue film disc which is good as well as cheap.

As you become more practiced with power sanding there are some wonderful sanding discs such as Abranet and Abralon which work great.

 

[Dick Sowa]

Some of my own personal observations mirror what others have said.

I have melted...or damaged the hooks on my mandrels, when the disk came off, or from heat. I bought some velcro strip material, and occasionally peal off the old worn hook material, and replace with with new...works great and restores a mandrel for very little money.

I also have one of those gum rubber sanding belt/disk cleaners, that I frequently use to clean the 2" and 3" sanding disks I use. It only works for a while, since the smaller disks wear out and need to be tossed.

For natural edge bowls, or ones with wings (where you are turning a lot of air), the 3" disks, or even, my 1/4 sheet orbital sander, seem to work a lot better on the outside.

For Christmas I got a Milwaukee 55 degree close quarter drill. The drill speed is a bit slow, but it works GREAT for sanding vessels on the lathe, and feels a whole lot safer than a regular drill.

 

[john lucas]

Well it depends on what I'm doing. On smaller projects my cuts are clean enough that hand sanding is all that's needed. Part of the trick is not to run the speed too fast. Hot sandpaper means it's not cutting well enough. Slow the speed down and keep the sandpaper moving constantly. One of the things I learned from a production worker friend was to keep it moving and random is better because it doesn't leave thread like lines.
Not that I haven't burned my fingers. When you get up to 400 and 600 grit it's very easy to run the wood too fast and man does it burn you quick. Light pressure is the key.
On larger bowls I do find power sanding better. One of the best things I ever did was to buy a mandrel for each sanding grit. The Velcro lasts so many times longer I don't think I've changed the velcro in years. It helps to have keyless chucks on your drill.
Use quality sandpaper. Scrimping here just wastes time in the long run. You get sanding lines from the courser grits much worse than you do with the better sandpapers.

 

[KellyDunn]

1st off thanks Odie for starting a new thread with this. but with just the few comments I need to chime in again.
I also use the powerlock system. What I did on the three inch pad was to go the grinder and thin the edge of the rubber so it was more flexible. And I also got the system in the 80s. These days I tend to start my inside bowl sanding with the powerlock and a 60 grit disc(gouge). Depends on the wood ,shape, etc. Reason being it knocks out all undulations from tools in very quick order. And true you dont let it sit in one place long. Its very aggresive. So even though I have a full line of grits still I switch to a softer velcro pad starting with 80 grit.
So if Diane wants to get her feet wet with power sanding lets not direct her towards the mulitude available yet let her know what each of us does and why so she can come up with a beginning choice. I only say that cause I have and use a multiple grouping of sanding options. Not sure what a startup cost for all I now own and use would be but not cheap by any means. But I did it over close to 30 years. So a bite here and there.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I'm a power-loc user, too. But if you sand static pieces, it's a real challenge to use the standard - as opposed to the flex back - disks.

Two purposes to sanding - fairing and finishing. Fairing is getting rid of any undulations, tool grooves or tearout. Very much easier with a power sander, because the action spans tool marks rather than follows them like hand sanding a rotating piece will do. I use the 11:00 to 1:00 portions of the disk for the initial passes. When working outside, I favor the center of the disk, since interior will demand edge contact. Helps even wear out a bit. That flex shaft is used like a big rotary gouge, supported on the tool rest, and not the work, so the dust can clear and not make a buffing pad out of the system, heating and burnishing the surface.

http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/?action=view&current=150Sand-1.mp4

Finishing is done with the grain, which, to me, means no disk. I'm softening the cross-grain scratches and blending them with the flow of the wood pattern. P400 or CAMI 320 is about as low as I go, because the woods I work with, and the 20/20's I see with don't need more. If you want shine, shine the finish with wet coat or sand/buff it.

The soft-back hook and loop can be used with less precision on static work without digging, but the rolling of the edge that prevents digging also heats with the squirm of the backing, cracks the adhesive and sheds the abrasive, becoming that buffer that heats and hardens. Keeping the paper fresh and the touch light is, to me, a lot easier if I don't have a heavy drill motor to support, where I'm obliged to tire my arm or support it on the work, where it does the things that soft back will do. One thing that I like a lot are the sanding sponges. They conform to tight arcs better than even cloth-backed paper, and hold their abrasive pretty well. Worth a try, in my estimation.

 

[Henry Williams]

Finger Burn

I frequently use a small pad of 0000 steel wool between my fingers and the sandpaper when hand sanding to reduce the potential for finger burn. I also keep the lathe speed low as others have pointed out.

 

[Odie]

BTW: Some bowls get a much improved surface quality by using a Grex 2" disc random orbital sander. Here, I use nothing but hook and loop pads, and usually only at the 400 grit. I don't need to use this Grex all the time, or even very much at all, but when I do........it's as valuable to me as if it were solid gold!

Be sure to always use some protection while sanding......don't want to breathe all that dust in.........

Extension mandrels can be very helpful at times where a little extra reach is necessary. I've made some hand holds from dowel and steel tubing that allows me to hold onto the mandrel shank while it's spinning........extremely helpful!

I use a bunch of Planter's nut cans for storing unused Power Lock discs.......keep everything organized!

I've made up a couple of "sanding caddies" for holding Power Lock discs and sandpaper that are currently in use.




ooc

 

[Odie]

Sanding mandrel storage, two Sioux sanders. The black Sioux is now history, gave a long and useful life, but it finally died a few years ago.

Sheet sandpaper storage bins.

PVC tubes used to store sandpaper pre-cut sandpaper strips. I usually cut up a couple sheets of sandpaper at a time into strips. No need to stop what I'm doing to get a fresh piece.

My dear old Mom was a career elementary school teacher, and a few years ago, I spied this old paper cutter among her things. It does an excellent job of cutting the sheet sandpaper into strips. This one is dated from the manufacturer.....made in 1953..........Thanks, Mom!

This is the way I was cutting strips of sandpaper......a scrap piece of wood with a hacksaw blade attached. For anyone who doesn't have a paper cutter (yet!), this method works very well for cutting your sandpaper strips......This method will get you by until you get yourself a paper cutter.

ooc

 

[Diane Vinyard]

sanding

Thanks Kelly and Odie for starting this thread. . VERY interesting information. In fact, I will have to read it all over again and take notes ! Watch for pictures of my new shop and new works !

 

[Diane Vinyard]

Wow Odie. . .talk about organized! I especially love the pvc sandpaper holders ! clever!

 

[waltben]

Although I also power sand with a close quarters drill and velcro disks, I alternate with hand sanding to avoid lines in either direction. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is taking full sheets, cutting them into quarters, then cutting a slit so as to fold the quarter sheet onto itself. This works with any grit (400 shown) and pretty much avoids burning fingers. When one surface gets used, refold to another.

 

[robo hippy]

Another good info source for sanding:

http://vinceswoodnwonders.com/

A lot can depend on what you are sanding. For bowls, power sanding is a must, unless there are a lot of details on the bowl, which power sanding can remove. I prefer the angle drills, not right angle ones. I prefer slow lathe speed/rpm in the 15 to 20 rpm range in part because my bowls are warped, and you can't keep abrasives on the bowl if it is spinning any faster than that. I prefer slow drill speeds in the 600 rpm or less. The abrasives just seem to cut better than they do at higher speeds. I use medium pressure. If you are generating heat, then you are pressing too hard. Heat is an enemy in sanding of both disc life and wear, and heat checks/cracks.

Excellent lighting is another factor that is equally important so you can see what you are doing.

robo hippy

 

[dbonertz]

A bunch of good information in this thread. One thing I don't remember reading is sanding in both directions. Start with the lathe running in forward and your power sander turning against the rotation. Stop the lathe and blow the piece and your disk off with compressed air. Put your lathe on reverse and reverse the rotation of your drill and give the piece a quick hit. It will raise the grain that has been laid over and gives you an opportunity to inspect the piece for trouble areas. I used to do this with only a few grits but it is so easy that I do it with all grits now with good success.

Also you may want to use a medium to stiff backer pad on your mandrel up to about 120 or 180. At 180 or 220 switch to a soft backer pad and finish through the grits.

Dale

 

[MichaelMouse]

A bunch of good information in this thread. One thing I don't remember reading is sanding in both directions. Start with the lathe running in forward and your power sander turning against the rotation. Stop the lathe and blow the piece and your disk off with compressed air. Put your lathe on reverse and reverse the rotation of your drill and give the piece a quick hit.

Don't worry enough about it to risk unscrewing your chuck trying. Your disk rotates, so it basically cuts small arcs across the grain, depending on relative rpm rate. If you like, you may set up with water, sand by hand against the nap in a straight line if you're going to use a water or alcohol-based finish. You'll notice that you will be going up nap in two opposing positions on your object. One would have been downhill in the reverse rotation regimen regardless, while the end grain uphill portions would be unaffected.

 

[KellyDunn]

OK, as long as forward and reverse and grain raising has been brought up. Diane you may be getting much more than you asked for. I stop at 320 grit and get the work damp with water. a wrung out old cotton sock. Dont miss a spot. What that does is raise any grain that tends to show up when you put finish on the work. When dry, just a few moments or minutes inspect. If sanding lines show up go back to whatever grit you think and clean it up. In most cases for me a handsanding at that point with 320 grit on a foam pad in both forward and reverse. No matter how fine you sand in one direction you are just pushing over finer fibres. In both directions you sand them off. If You do not have reverse you can rotate the work by hand a bit. Jimmy Clewes uses rubbing alcohol instead of water. I keep a 1/4 inch foam pad with 220 grit on one side and 320 on the other. No hot fingers. I sand natural edge bowl outsides at the highest speed I think the thing can spin and stay on the lathe. Using a five inch psa disc. And being very careful. Inside done up to air with discs then with the lathe off up to the rims. That keeps your rim even. Sanding is an art that most of us never want to stop learning new tricks.