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Rusting Tools! - please help...

F

flooshee

Joined
Nov 22, 2005
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Location
Charlottesville, VA
Ok, I know everyone is going to shudder, but my lathe & turning tools are getting rusty. My wife and I live in a 2 bedroom apartment, and she has been gracious enough in buying me many of my tools, but they are housed outside in one of those plastic mini-sheds. It keeps rain and the major elements out, but moisture has obviously gotten in and taken its toll.

My question is: what is the best way to clean off the rust & prevent it in the future? I have tried using paste wax, but that obviously didn't do the trick. Do I need to re-apply it, even if the tools aren't used? I recall seeing some kind-of protective sheets to put onto cast iron surfaces to prevent rust; are these effective?

Thanks in advance for the help,
Andrew
 
Do you have access to a garage at all? If so that would be my first suggestion. If that is not possible I would try to reduce all airflow thru the area. Maybe the air has mist in it in your location.

Paste wax will help protect the exposed metal, but in the long run it will be a losing battle. Best bet is to try and find an area with less moisture.

I'm using a 2 car garage. The woodturning stuff used to occupy 1/4 of it, but now it's more like 3/4 of it. SWMBO is very understanding of the addictive nature and doesn't seem to mind. An enclosed garage makes a great woodturning environment for your wood and your tools.
 
Jeff,

Thanks for your reply. I would LOVE to have a garage, but I have no such luck right now. We'll be in this apartment for another year and a half. I think I can sweet talk my wife into a little closet space for a few tools, but the big power tools (lathe included) will have to stay outside.

Thanks again,
Andrew
 
I live along the Gulf coast of Florida so rust is a constant problem. I have a very nice air-conditioned shop that keeps the HVAC system running 24/7 just to slow down the rust, but it won't stop it. During the really humid months (all but January :cool2: ) I wax all rustable surfaces once per week. Every Saturday morning I spend an hour or so using a good automobile wax on all cast iron or bare steel. I have found auto wax is much better than paste wax. I also use WD40 (get the liquid in big cans, not that wimpy spray stuff) on a rag to wipe down my turning tools, saw blades, etc. Some stuff still gets by the rag and will rust some. On another forum when rust was discussed the best answer was to move to Arizona or somewhere else where the humidity remains in the single digit range. Not practical for me but it probably is the best solution.
 
I have seen several references to a rust-preventative product called Boeshield that is supposed to be remarkably effective. Maybe can find it on-line somewhere.
 
My tools used to be in a basement with water running through it when it rained. I waxed everything on a regular basis and stopped most of it. I now have a 2 car garage and so far after a year I have had little rust.
Boeshield got the top honors in an article in one of the wood working magazines. They did accelerated rust tests and it was way above the other methods they tried.
 
You could try the rust inhibiting oils that are used to protect firearms. (Hunting rifles get exposed to all sorts of nasty conditions and rust is a big no-no.) It's in the gun care section of sports stores and even in Wal-Mart. The best one is supposed to be "RIG" (Rust Inhibiting Grease), but I haven't seen that in any of the stores around me.
 
OK, so the ground is warm and wet, and the tools are up in the air where they get cold. Makes for condensation.

First thing to do is get some sort of a vapor barrier between your tools and the ground. If you can lift the shed, getting some overlapping visqueen right on the ground will shut it out. If not, a lift of individual sheets of the floor and installation in a less-than -continuous form will help a lot. Don't get yourself into a situation where you've got a vapor barrier between the floor and the interior, or the floor will rot even more quickly than those "superinsulated" houses of a few years back.

If you're going to turn during the winter you can help your case by ventilation of the space to clear your own exhalations and the moisture they contain prior to exiting the shed. Heating above the dewpoint is the other answer.

Multitude of ways of dealing with existing rust. I like WD40. Others have come up with their favorites.
 
Some good information here for preventing rust. Thanks for the tips.

I'm wondering if Gun bluing (controlled oxidation) would be useful in controlling rust on tools?

I've used a product called "Rust Off" with good success in removing rust. But you must be extremely careful with it because it will eat holes in cast iron or steel if left on.
 
We have been using a product called ballistol. may be similar to Brian's reccomendation.

Ballistol is a protective oil used on firearms. It keeps rust from forming by coating the surface. We got some from Don Geiger who was in the tradeshow at last year's Florida Symposium. You can find Don in the AAW directory and their are distributers on the web.

The stuff really works. We use it on the lathe beds, bandsaw table, and a few tools. It protects against rust from wet wood and the occassional high humidity we have in central florida.

About every 2 months, we put on a liberal coat wipe it on evenly with a paper towel. Let it sit over night and wipe of any excess the next day. The stuff has an unpleasant odor sort of like an old grease trap. Fortunately it disapates in a day or two. We generally use it when we won't be in the shop for a day or two.

happy Turning,
Al
 
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Andrew,

Use BLADE & BIT - to remove resin gum and pitch from saw blades, drill bits, tools, cast iron tables stainless steel, etc.

If rusty, use RUST FREE - after BLADE & BIT. This product is very effective for removing rust and stains.

Protect with BOESHIELD T-9 to prevent rust, resin and pitch build up.

TOPCOAT is also a very effective protectant and reduces friction.

All can be found at any good woodworking store or online. Some companies sell a kit with all three products (not TOPCOAT) or can be purchased separately.

Check out this link for more info. http://www.woodworkingshop.com

Ed
 
Thanks a ton! You guys have been more than helpful, with many great suggestions. I tried WD-40 to clean the tools before, and that worked pretty well. I think I'll try that for cleanup, then look at this Boeshield product (or maybe regularly applied car wax) for prevention. I might look at those gun oils for the tools. Great suggestions all around.

The vapor barrier is also a good idea, but I'm not sure how that will work. The shed is tiny (big enough for storage, but not for a person to get into it), and it sits on a concrete slab. Should I put some type of vapor barrier on the slab under the shed? Alternatively, I could put something on the plastic floor of the shed. Thoughts?

Thanks again, Andrew
 
One other idea would be to bag the smaller tools in plastic bags after treating and put a desiccant in the bag to absorb the moisture. Desiccant units are available in camera supply and scientific lab supply stores. Another thing that might work would be running an extension cord to the building and putting a small quartz type of electric heater in the building (watch for fire danger!) and keep the tools warm enough not to condense moisture. Otherwise as the others have said - pack them in grease or gun compounds like they do firearms being shipped and wrap surfaces with wax paper. Lots of good packing grease for firearms available from military surplus stores.

Wilford
 
For removing pitch and resin, don't go buy some expensive brand name stuff.

Most of that stuff is the same as your bargain brand oven cleaner that you can buy down at the local Walmart. Just follow the directions and clean it off well.

I used to use it in a commercial setting on a gang rip saw. Frequently all the blades would come off and get a good cleaning. The saws would last a lot longer and cut cleaner. And we cut up about two tractor trailer truckloads of wood a day.... mostly Red and White Oak, and Hard Rock Maple.

I can't remember what we used to lube the blades up with. Might have the blade lube equivalent of Top Coat (I can't remember the name at the moment)... Sure didn't have any trouble with rust on those blades though.... 😛
 
So, you're storing, rather than using? Sounds like Boeshield or cosmoline would work.

Slow the moisture from below by putting a barrier over the concrete, and be sure to ventilate the eaves. That will help protect those places you can't see.
 
storing AND using

Michael, that is the difficulty. I am storing the tools most of the time, but I am trying to get back into my woodworking. Thus, I would optimally like a solution that allows the tools to be stored safely (rust-free) and then taken out and used, without putting chemicals & residue on the wood.

I like the gun oil idea, but I am afraid that would harm the wood. I think I will get some Top-Cote.

You guys have been incredibly helpful. As soon as the snow melts I am going to go clean & protect my tools. 🙂
 
Moisture

The winter months are month that are relatively dry in terms Humidity (warm area carries more moisture than cold). As long as you don't have huge swings in temperature in your shop area (IE if only heat it when your there and then get it toasty) I think you should be all right during the winter months. I have a basement garge shop and always keep a dehumidier set to run and while it runs often in the summer it rarley runs during the winter. I had a minor rust problem many years ago during a period of higher humidty which has been taken care of with the dehumidifier.
 
flooshee said:
Michael, that is the difficulty. I am storing the tools most of the time, but I am trying to get back into my woodworking. Thus, I would optimally like a solution that allows the tools to be stored safely (rust-free) and then taken out and used, without putting chemicals & residue on the wood.
Click to expand...

Then the vapor barrier and ventilation are your priority. The slab will draw water from the ground, which probably doesn't freeze at your latitude, and you exhale a bunch when you go in there to work. Important to get it out of the way as soon as possible. Use some electricity to warm and circulate before you begin, cool and circulate before you close up.

Your situation will be worst in fall and spring when you have big swings in temperature. Once things settle, you should be able to work, ventilate thoroughly, and keep ahead of surface corrosion that you can see with simple measures like oils and waxes. It's places you don't see that can suffer.

You're fortunate you can even consider working in an unheated space in the winter. It's -5 out there right now, and will get colder, so I don't even change my oil by myself for four months out of the year. Emergency maintenance only!
 
Flooshee,

Plastic retains moisture, every thing I cover with a plastic tarp gets wet from condensation under the tarp. Wide swings in temp and high humidity are the culprit. Your tools are in essence wrapped in plastic. Nothing can be done about the humidity of the climate. That leaves temp. I have had some success by removing any combustibles(paper,etc.) and placing a 50 or 60 watt bulb at the inside bottom of a cabinet. The heat from the bulb, subsequent air movement and a good rust-resistant product may be somewhat of an inprovement for you. It does not cost alot to find out if it helps. Good luck, I undrstand how frustrating it is.
 
Andrew,

I agree with Jack. Under no circumstances use plastic to directly cover anything in your shop. Use old bath towels. They absorb moisture. Think about it. After you bath you dry off with a towel.

I've been using large old bath towels for years to cover any cast iron surface and have not had any rust issues when kept covered.

Because my lathe is near my table saw, I use a clear poly shower liner over top of the towels to prevent them from getting soaked when turning wet wood. I separate the liner from the towels with scrap blocks of wood to create an air space.

You can also make tool pouches from plush old towels to store items in.

Ed
 
The towel idea is great! I think I will incorporate that into my lathe tool storage rack I am devising. Perhaps I will make each one a separate storage pouch that it can live in during the long periods of non-use. Now I just have to see if my wife will donate some of our old towels to the cause.

You guys are great,
Andrew
 
Might want to consider the particular circumstances before covering your tools with anything but the roof. Except if that roof leaks, or, as would seem likely in a metal shed, sweats because of unvented warm moist air within and metal chilling on the outside. Condensation will have a tendency to run to a low point, or series of low points, then drip off as it gains volume. If those points are over your machinery, you're exacerbating the problem by covering with absorbent material, because it will preserve the wet place.

Have to wonder where the "cover with a plastic tarp" thought originated. Looks like with Jake, who rightfully deplores it. If you cover with anything, take a cue from common practice and use canvas which is not in contact with the machinery. That way it sheds from above, breathes from below. If it contacts the machine it can wick through if it gets wet at all, and that's trouble.
 
Michael,

I appreciate the cautionary note. I think I will re-evaluate the towel idea. However, I am still wondering if it could work well for storing my lathe tools. I don't think I have water explicitly dripping in, just condensation & moisture seeping in somehow.

As another note, I just saw this stuff called DampRid. Has anyone had experience with that helping with moisture control? I'm thinking of putting a tub of it in my shed (note that the shed is tiny, as in 4' x 3' x 4').

Thanks for everything! 🙂
 
Wilford Bickel said:
One other idea would be to bag the smaller tools in plastic bags after treating and put a desiccant in the bag to absorb the moisture. Desiccant units are available in camera supply and scientific lab supply stores.
Click to expand...


The Damprid is a type of dessicant. I don't know that brand, the ones we use in the labs are a silica based product and able to be rejuvenated by baking in a oven a few hours (major cost savings). I don't know if you can get enough in a large shed to hold moisture down long before it becomes saturated - that is why I recommended bagging tools and adding this type product where it is controlling a smaller area that is allowing less moisture into the area.

Wilford
 
2 More Ideas

First,

The Japan Woodworker sells a "Rust Eraser", works like a pencil eraser, that really works well on cast surfaces, such as the table of the band or table saw(s). DAMHIKT.

They also sell "Camilla Oil". Recommended by a professional wooden boat builder in the Pacific NW to coat his steel tools and surfaces. It does not stain the wood as some coatings might. It has kept me from having to use the "Rust Eraser"!!!

My turning club mentor has a day job as a machinist for a major aircraft company in Wichita. (Remember, Sky King? 🙂 )

He puts a copper penny in with any steel tool he stores. A set of collet chucks in their boxes, each with a penny. His micrometer, in the box with a penny. He has a french fitted drawer with measuring instruments, and several pennies spotted around the french fittings. No rust that I could see.

John Nicholas
South Kansas WoodTurners
 
So what does the penny do?

And do they have to be the old copper ones? Or do the new aluminum alloy pennies work just as well?
 
underdog said:
So what does the penny do?
Click to expand...

Keeps the elephants away.

Memories! "Sky King Sky King, Do not answer. Kilo India Lima Lima Echo Mike."

My mom told me that putting a penny with any sharp object like a gift knife would keep the recipient from cutting themself.
 
underdog said:
So what does the penny do?

And do they have to be the old copper ones? Or do the new aluminum alloy pennies work just as well?
Click to expand...

He just said copper, I will ask if the alloy penny works. I will also ask if he knows what it does. IIRC he said he learned it from his dad.

John
 
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