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Russian Video

olaf Vogel

olaf Vogel

Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
347
Likes
150
Location
Aurora, Ont, CA
Website
www.revolvingarts.ca
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWkelCFUAfw


Some interesting similarities with Japanese technique:
- lathe type
- foot pedal for on/off
- hook tools
- working far off the rest.

But also quite different from the Japanese
- lathe turns in one direction only
- the tool rest is fixed, not floating.

And lot different from anything I learned in the "western" style

Clearly the guy is extremely skilled with a ton or practice
 
Interesting tools ... and he only uses 2 of them !
 
Dean Center said:
I really want a set of those tools! And a pickup load of that perfect wood.

In case anybody wonders what "back hollowing" is, here ya go.
Click to expand...

I've had a blacksmith friend create a hook tool like that for me.
And I am setting up my lathe to run backwards (Japanese style).

Now all I have to do is re-assemble my lathe, get it running and have time to play. :)
Meantime, I'll "turn" vicariously.....watching YouTube videos....sigh.
 
Dean Center said:
I really want a set of those tools! And a pickup load of that perfect wood.

In case anybody wonders what "back hollowing" is, here ya go.
Click to expand...

I guess that without one of Bill Jones' arm rest or a rotating tool rest, it would be pretty hard to hollow on the near side of the box.
 
How Russian nesting dolls are made: Same tools video in English and some expert women turners.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtFC4_UaPzI


The skew tool has a round shank and can be rolled on the tool rest when cutting curves, unlike our flat bars.
They use cup chucks, like some of the German production turners.
Like the nutcrackers from Germany, the dolls are made from Lime (bass)

Some German turners use a fixed bar and when they need to cut on the face of the work, jest lean a board down from the tool rest across the face of the work.
 
Woodturning has had its diverse styles and techniques that have evolved geographically. I enjoyed the video, but the links from this video are also sensational. His harpoon-like skew is amazing. The other videos show the use of a jam chuck that looks like its holden an eight-inch round blank that is about 16-20 inches long without the use of a tailstock or steady! What's interesting is his lathe is turning western direction. I will be viewing his links wherever they take me. There is a lot to learn from his hook tool usage. Thanks for sharing olaf .

Here is his bowl production video:
View: https://youtu.be/7YM3zICyjBg?t=74
 
I could swear the direction is opposite, from his use of hook tools at about 5:20.
Fascinating how different the techniques are. 20" long, using a jam chuck, and not being "delicate"


I love watching production turners. They take all the "rules" that we are taught, and ignore them. And...make it work.
So it challenges me to think in different ways, about solving the same problem.
 
Dean Center said:
I really want a set of those tools! And a pickup load of that perfect wood.

In case anybody wonders what "back hollowing" is, here ya go.
Click to expand...

Richard Coers said:
What are your plans to keep the chuck or faceplate snugged up all the time? Just grub screws?
Click to expand...

A Oneway chuck, where the adapter is welded to a faceplate, that is bolted to the spindles faceplate.
When I'm not using the chuck, it will be faceplates, bolted onto the spindle.

I wanted to go to the shop this weekend and finish the assembly, but a snowstorm as prevented that. I'll send some pics when I can.
 
That guy is incredible! I wonder what that "skew" is called. And whether it is, as I assume, a traditional tool, how it's made, etc. He certainly has mastery of it. Unlike the rest of us, "He don't need no stinkin' face shield!
 
I noticed the tool in the first video- wouldn't make it through airport security. Looked more like a knife than any kind of turning tool I know. Interesting video. Getting ready to watch the other videos. Magazine article- Russian Women in Turning.
 
I put a few links to this turners videos up at SMC, he has quite a few videos, showing how he makes his tools, also sharpening them, bringing home logs he chose from a pile on the road, also how he makes his logs ready and how these are stored and later sawn to shorter pieces.

His log pile do show Birch and Ash but looks like it is mostly Linden, it is such a stable wood and easily turned, these logs have the bark removed in large strips after is hammered some on the end where it is started to pull it up and off.

In one of his videos he shows where he has quite a few turning split on him, both in the center as well as the wall.

One shows him disassembling his lathe and servicing and adjusting the bronze bearings and the back stop to take all the slop out of it but still spin easily, too bad I don’t speak Russian, as I’m sure I could learn a thing or two of him.

Making some tools
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX5JYwHmJho&frags=pl%2Cwn


Turning bowls and using a story stick, parting tool is much like a knife or skew, and the hook tool does a quick job, these bowls have later in the video the foot finished.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YM3zICyjBg


Here he turns a barrel like pot from a piece of softwood (could be spruce or similar) shown some of his tools he uses.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivMn8Pr5uV0&frags=pl%2Cwn


Bringing in some logs he has gotten out of his storage and cut to usable lengths, notice his shavings barrel made from wide thin wood strips.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EexoW1NIBaU&frags=pl%2Cwn


Here he shows taking the lathe apart and servicing and adjusting the bearings and backstop bearing, taking the slop out of it all.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDmK7L8s64&frags=pl%2Cwn
 
I saw that videos of production turners in Germany using similar "double pillow block" head stocks.. Must be large to take the beating of jamming the wood into the cup chuck like that.

I recently picked up an century (plus) old wooden bed lathe with giant pillow blocks like that.

I am very intrigued by that skew and its round shank. I want to give that a try. The tool ends up looking like a medieval Halberd crossed with a harpoon. I ordered a piece of tool steel to play with.
 
Perry Hilbert said:
I saw that videos of production turners in Germany using similar "double pillow block" head stocks.. Must be large to take the beating of jamming the wood into the cup chuck like that.

I recently picked up an century (plus) old wooden bed lathe with giant pillow blocks like that.

I am very intrigued by that skew and its round shank. I want to give that a try. The tool ends up looking like a medieval Halberd crossed with a harpoon. I ordered a piece of tool steel to play with.
Click to expand...

It is the large bearing ball against the end of the spindle that takes the force of the beating of the wood into the cup chuck, the bronze bearings can be adjusted with shims to have very close tolerances with just a thin coating of oil on them, I remember an old precision metal lathe that ran on bronze bearings that were tapered and could be adjusted to exact tolerance, that and oil rings for continuous oiling of the bearings bringing oil up out of the sump, very rugged and precise.
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
Making some tools
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX5JYwHmJho&frags=pl%2Cwn
Click to expand...

Thanks Leo!

I found this interesting from about 13min onwards.
The hook tool is MUCH larger than anything sold commercially (and closer to what the Japanese use)

His use, is very much slicing the wood, top and bottom.
Interestingly, when working off the bottom, he'd have to put downward pressure on the rest to keep the tool down.
So a catch would bounce up, and away from the wood. This is also what I noticed with the Japanese turners, a catch goes away from the centre, rather than into it. (although they work off the bottom of the bowl.)

A few years ago I tried a Martel hook. Its tiny by comparison
Couldn't get the hang of it, lots of catches and finally one catch broke the cutter.

Last year, I had a local blacksmith make me a hook tool similar to whats in the video - about 1" diameter.
Unfortunately, I've not had the time to try it yet.
 
In Russian the tool name translates to Big Ugly Hook tool. :-) If you could learn the technique that would be a good tool to have for the lathe. For most Western wood turners it would be difficult to master as the technique is counter intuitive compared to most of the tools we use today. The wood species and moisture content will most likely dictate if this tool would work the same and provide a clean cut with no catches.
 
The cutting edge on the hook tool is not radically different than a spindle gouge, but substantially changes the holding angle so that the tool can be used from that fixed tool rest as well as being used on the up turn on the rearward side of the piece. Seems to me that catches tend to come from the wood turning down ward into the cutting edge. But the hook tool is mostly riding the up turn, so a catch would not jam the tool against the rest.
 
These tools make the rough turning and finish turning look so easy, however you can tell by the shavings that this wood is freshly cut green wood that has a lot of moisture in it which is usually pretty easy turning with the straight grain logs they have. I would assume the results would be a lot different on a chunk of 100 year old dry old growth hickory wood.
 
Mike Johnson said:
These tools make the rough turning and finish turning look so easy, however you can tell by the shavings that this wood is freshly cut green wood that has a lot of moisture in it which is usually pretty easy turning with the straight grain logs they have. I would assume the results would be a lot different on a chunk of 100 year old dry old growth hickory wood.
Click to expand...
Oh totally agree. But since I turn mostly yellow poplar, a relatively soft wood, and sometimes some green red maple or birch, (rather soft also) How they perform in some wood from the extreme hard spectrum doesn't really matter. (OMG green red maple. Sounds like I am a possum lodge member.)
 
Because they use the hook tool to cut on the rear up-turning part of the work, it would be necessary to hold it down with some force. I would not know how that could be done without the strength of hand & fingers gripping over the tool and the tool rest. I can't imagine any other way. There are many things they do differently. That tool rest is fixed and not shoved up millimeters from the work. In Germany, for some turning, it is done with a flexible wooden tool rest that the operator can shift be leaning against it. especially for Reifendrehen
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFfhwbSaxoM
Imagine that puffy sleeve shirt next to a spinning piece.
 
I found this video a few minutes ago. Shows really well how the tool is used. It also is made from a single round rod. I'm guessing you use a technique called upsetting where you heat the end and then drop it long end down on the anvil. This enlarges that portion. Then you hammer it out and into shape. If I have time I may try that this week. I'm packing up my house but have 3 weeks to do it and I'm ahead of the process and bored out of my mind.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XEyScX9cKk
 
Interesting, took time to view the entire video. I cringed when he reached to pull out the shavings from the turning. Long sleeves around a turning machine? I did take note of the tools. A close friend is a farrier; may see if he can make some tools like those in the video. Also, no tailstock. Hammered the wood into what would be the headstock. Wonder how long the bearings last doing that? Just my thoughts.
 
. Also, no tailstock. Hammered the wood into what would be the headstock. Wonder how long the bearings last doing that?

A lot of European production turning is done with "cup chucks" The wood is just pounded in, but generally is a soft wood. Most have large double pillow block head stocks with big bearings. I have seen a cup chuck used by one fellow here in the states. He turns at the Christmas Markets in Mifflinburg PA. On a small bench top Harbor Freight lathe at that. The tail stock is removed and he uses a mallet to drive in 1.5 x 1.5 bass wood square stock and turns Christmas trees. He really doesn't have to hit it very hard. and once he parts off the tree, he uses a knock out rod to remove the stub. I have seen him there over a span of six years and it appears to be the same lathe every year. Whether he has changed the bearings, I do not know. Although it looks like it takes a lot of force, in his case, the cub chuck is just compressing against the four corners of the pieces of wood and all the pieces are the exact same, The tail stock would be in the way of swinging the mallet
 
Apparently, Werner, the Reifendreher turner, was at the Carmel Christmas Market in Indiana last November. I have admired his work for some time. I would have traveled to see that. A couple years ago, there was a workshop offered in Germany to learn how to do that style of turning. The cost was a bit more than My Mrs. was willing to let me spend.
 
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