rotary carver info

[john lucas]

I thought it would be fun to discuss the various rotary carvers. Which ones do you like and which ones do you use for certain tasks. A quick search breaks them down intoseveral styles.
small low speed carvers like the Dremel at 23K rpm.
The electric micro carvers that are smaller and more expensive, they run around 45k rpm.
Air powered micro carvers that run about 56K.
The high speed dental carvers. Usually run around 400,000K
The bigger flex shaft machines. Usually run around 25K but have more power than the previous 2.
Electric Die grinders. Much larger than the dremel and more powerful. Kind of heavy but you don't have the flex shaft to get in the way.
Air die grinders. Prices are all over the place depending on the brand.
Angle grinders- with Arbortec mini, Big arbortec, or other wood removal cutters.
Did I miss anything? Let us know which ones you like and why what are the downsides.

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

John, it is an interesting topic. Something that I mention, when asked at demo's, is the use of air tools. The air die grinders and the like, while cheap to buy, are very hungry on air and it seems pointless to run a 3 hp air compressor to power a small air tool that if electric powered would only use a few hundred watts of power. Not to mention the extra noise of an air compressor.
Without saying too much, the Mini grinder is a very handy machine. The mini-sanders that fit it are very underrated. (There is something to be said for abrasive spinning at high rpm for power carving and blending curves)
After using most of the tools you mention, they all have their strengths,for particular work. There is no 'ONE' tool, if you do a range of work.

 

[Joe Greiner]

At this stage, I'm still using the Dremel for small work (from router bits to dental cutters, usually freehand), and Lancelot (cousin of Arbortech) for large-scale removal. Real Dremel, not the weak sister clones. Small drum sander on Dremel too.

All of these have a learning curve, best done on scrap. FWIW, I can imitate a belt sander with Lancelot, but it took a while.

 

[john lucas]

Glen I bought one of the mini air grinders from HF and found it useless. I have friends who bought better quality ones and like them a lot. My biggest complaint of the air grinders is their noise. Very ear piercing.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The Foredom is a nice powerful quiet-running machine with an easy-to-use foot operated speed control that can throw all the dust that you can stand in your face (breathing protection is a must with all rotary carvers, but especially with this powerful carver). How about reciprocating carvers? I have a Proxxon and prefer it over the Foredom for most of the stuff that I need to carve. It costs just a fraction of the cost of the Foredom and there is no dust problem.

 

[Hugh]

I like the receprocating carvers for removing chunks of wood, and for texture. Really like them for texture.

Rotary carvers - I have tried the small die grinders - they use too much air and the compressor runs too much. They make too much noise for me - and I am hard of hearing. They are cheap from Harbor Freight - but....Foredom tools are good. You can remove a lot of material quickly. They will take a 1/4" dia. cutter shaft. It seems that one is always fighting the stiff "flexable" shaft when using it. Works well though. Dremel tools - reasonable cost and they work well. Get good cutters. A bit heavy in the hand, but they are getting lighter. OK in the power but not great for removing a bunch of wood. I have not tried the "dental" tools. I purchased a good Foredom Micro Motor last year. Turns 1,000 - 50,000 RPM. Has good power and is quiet, fairly light in the hand, easy to use. It is the tool of choice right now. A bit on the pricey side though. I use carbide cutters from MSC.
Hugh

 

[john lucas]

Bill I'm confused about your statement that the Proxxon doesn't make dust. I thought all rotary carvers made dust. Lots of it. I looked at the proxxon and it seems like a nice machine. I read to many negative posts about it not holding up which is why I passed it buy.

 

[Jake Debski]

Glen I bought one of the mini air grinders from HF and found it useless...............................

John, I was going to buy a mini die grinder from HF this coming Friday because they are going on sale. Would you care to share what makes them "useless? Even as cheap as they are, there is no sense throwing 10+ dollars out the window.

 

[john lucas]

Jake mine just doesn't have any power at all. I was hoping it would fill in where the dremel leaves off. A little higher rpm and easier to manipulate. It is easier to control but has so little power that I can't really use it. I wish I could remember who told me about the other models and which ones they are, that are functional.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill I'm confused about your statement that the Proxxon doesn't make dust. I thought all rotary carvers made dust. Lots of it. I looked at the proxxon and it seems like a nice machine. I read to many negative posts about it not holding up which is why I passed it buy.

As I said, it is a reciprocating carver so it uses a razor sharp carving blades much like the hand carving tools except that it pulses back and forth to make carving much easier. I believe that Proxxon also makes a rotary carver which you may be thinking about.

 

[Jake Debski]

John,
thanks for the heads up on the HF grinder. FWIW, Enco had an import on sale about a month ago for around $50. I just looked at their online catalog, only one that fit the sale description was a Chicago brand which sells for $110.

 

[john lucas]

Bill sorry, I must have missed that part. I thought I would save the reciprocating and hand carving tools for another post. There are so many different carving methods and I've played with most. I thought I would just try to go after the rotary carving for this post. Personally I will use anything that works. My first serious carving was done with wood rasps, files, sandpaper glued to sticks, fingernail files and even a jeweler saw. I've come a long way since then.

 

[Carole Valentine]

I use the heavy duty WeCheer (the one that is 1/3 hp and 26,000 rpm) with the optional pencil type handpiece and a foot pedal. It has plenty of power and is reversible. I do not like the reciprocating tool that it uses though. Too much pressure required to start the reciprocating action. For that, I use one that is no longer made...a Ryobi reciprocating carver.

 

[john lucas]

Carole I have an older Weecher and a slightly newer Foredom. The Foredom is much smoother but it might simply be because it's newer. I had a no name flex shaft but after I repaired the shaft twice It finally reached the point I couldn't fix it and could not find a replacement shaft. If you buy a flex shaft I highly recommend sticking with the brand names so you can get replacement parts. Sooner or later you will stick one of the carving or sanding burrs in your clothing. I haven't hurt myself yet but have brocken a few shafts.
I have a Dremel with the flex shaft as well. I buy dremels at yard sales and pawn shops whenever I find them. You can get them really cheap. It is very handy to have several dremel with different collets to back up the flex shaft. It makes carving so much quicker because you work back and forth between the two without having to change cutters.
One of my good friends who is a wonderful carver has a sort of umbrella tree with hooks and has multiple flex shaft machines hanging from it. He simply rotates it to the machine he needs. With 4 or 5 machines loaded with different cutters he's really proficient in what he does.

 

[Hugh]

Jake,
About a year and a half ago - Harbor Freight had that same sale on - $10 for the usual $30 1/8" die grinder. I purchased two of them. When I opened up the first one and put in a burr, I could not get the threads to meet on the nut that holds in the collet. I live about 30 miles from HB and it was not worth it for me to return the grinder. I fussed around with the collet and was eventually able to make the two parts fit together. It took a bit of grinding on the collet to allow the nut to meet up with the threads. It does work - but it took me about an hour to fix it first. I opened up the second one and put in a burr and it worked. I am not sure how centered the collet hole is though. Might be off a bit. These two items still collect dust in my tool chest. I guess one gets what they pay for.

If you go to buy one in the future - I would take along a 1/8" burr and try it before the purchase.
Hugh

 

[Jake Debski]

Jake,
About a year and a half ago - Harbor Freight had that same sale on - $10 for the usual $30 1/8" die grinder. I purchased two of them. When I opened up the first one and put in a burr, I could not get the threads to meet on the nut that holds in the collet. I live about 30 miles from HB and it was not worth it for me to return the grinder. I fussed around with the collet and was eventually able to make the two parts fit together. It took a bit of grinding on the collet to allow the nut to meet up with the threads. It does work - but it took me about an hour to fix it first. I opened up the second one and put in a burr and it worked. I am not sure how centered the collet hole is though. Might be off a bit. These two items still collect dust in my tool chest. I guess one gets what they pay for.

If you go to buy one in the future - I would take along a 1/8" burr and try it before the purchase.
Hugh

Thanks Hugh, between John and yourself I'm convinced, the HF is a waste of money. I'll do some more investigating and hopefully come up with a moderately priced but useable die grinder. I have never carved before so I didn't want to spend alot only to discover I don't like it or don't have the creative juices to be successful.

 

[hockenbery]

Hi John,

I use a Foredem most of the time.
I like to work sitting down and this works well for me.
The only negative for me on this tool is that I break a drive shafts once in a while. I have about 8 months on this on probably break it next time out. It predecessor lasted about 6 minutes. Total operator error I touched a carbide burr to my carving glove. wrapped itself up tight in the glove and snapped the shaft.

I also use an Arbotech. This is a great tool but I don't think it is one I would want for my only tool. I have to have the work either on the Lathe or in a carving stand. I hold this tool with 2 hands.
I've done some texturing with this tool with the lathe running.
Trent Bosch makes a great carving stand it is threaded same as the lathe
it fits into the lathe banjo or clamps to the work bench.

I also have a few air die grinders. I use them once in while when I want to use a burr on something that is on the lathe. I don't like the sound and the air hose needs to move around tool. A big advantage of air grinders is they give you a cheap entry and the burrs can be used on a better machine later.

when the burrs get gummed up I burn the stuff off with a torch.
It is probably best to take the burr out of the die grinder when you torch it.

I also have a dremmel. I use it more on metal than wood.


happy turning
Al

 

[john lucas]

Al I forgot about the carving stands. I have the one from www.bestwoodtools.com I think a lot of people like the Trent Bosch stand. There are also several good stands in the www.woodcarverssupply.com catalog. I switch back and forth between holding the work on a stand and holding it in my lap.
Michelle Holzaphel has a concave platform with sandbags to hold her work. It looks sort of like a roll top desk turned upside down. By positioning the bags in different ways you can secure the work.
I've also seen sort of the same kind of thing but had a foot powered strap that goes over the work. You position the work and stand on the strap and it holds it while you work. Of course you have to work with one leg.
I'm currently in the process of building a bowling ball carving jig. I picked up a stand somewhat like the stanley workmate but it has 3 moveable jaws instead of 2. I'm going to make some curved forms to fit a bowling ball that I bought for $1. I will drill this ball and put a piece of all thread in that fits my chucks. This way I can walk all the way around the piece to work on it.

 

[Joe Greiner]

...
I've also seen sort of the same kind of thing but had a foot powered strap that goes over the work. You position the work and stand on the strap and it holds it while you work. Of course you have to work with one leg. ...

Sounds like a "shaving horse" a la Roy Underhill. And if combined with it, you could work seated, and use both legs for tensioning the strap.

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

I'm currently in the process of building a bowling ball carving jig. I picked up a stand somewhat like the stanley workmate but it has 3 moveable jaws instead of 2. I'm going to make some curved forms to fit a bowling ball that I bought for $1. I will drill this ball and put a piece of all thread in that fits my chucks. This way I can walk all the way around the piece to work on it.

John, you can make a bowling ball carving clamp using a Triton Superjaws, by making a set of bowl clamping jaws from 2 pieces of 6" pipe welded to flat plate that fits on the existing jaws. They work well but can be limited if you want work on the underside of the piece. Have a look at the latest Kelton carving jig, it is one unit that is not limited, like most.

 

[Ed Koenig]

Have a look at the latest Kelton carving jig, it is one unit that is not limited, like most.

Hello Glenn. I've been wanting to have a look at that jig. I've seen it on the McNaughton site but am not aware of who in the US has them or how much they cost. I pretty much love all the McNaughton tools and wish I had a direct line to his products.

It seems that the usual vendors here in the US only sell the most popular items.

Be well.
Ed

 

[Mark Mandell]

Did I miss anything? Let us know which ones you like and why what are the downsides.

Hi John,

A few other options come to mind.

I have my trusty 45 yr. old Foredom that I also fitted with a reciprocating handpiece from Woodcarver's Supply. This is excellent for providing chiseled texture and crisp edges, and makes the old "grinder" into both a burr and reciprocating blade machine by just changing handpieces. BTW, for anyone using a flex-shaft machine, I strongly recommend the use of a foot-pedal speed control. It gives you much more control over the cutting tool and will prevent incidents such as Al described.

I also use an oil-free TurboCrafter hyper speed air tool, but it is only good for very fine detail or signatures; not torque to speak of.

For those doing larger pieces with full size chisels, you might consider an air-powered reciprocating handpiece from Trow & Holden http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=3961934.5401*s-2O57&product=cat4 These are stone carvers' tools but they make an adapter that will take tang-type woodcarving chisels (handles removed) and the 1/2" and 3/4" handpieces will run on 4 CFM or less making them usable even with smaller compressors. For anyone like me with carpal tunnel limiting how much hammer throwing can be done, these are fantastic tools, and T&H are about the best I know of.

 

[john lucas]

Thanks Mark One thing I learned on the foredom footpedal is to turn it sideways. Then you can move your foot for finer control of the speed. It's really touchy if you have it in the standard Gas pedal kind of configuration. When I use my sanding drums the speed is really important. To slow and you don't get any work done. Too fast and it can damage the drum or throw the paper off. I intend to buy one of the fixed speed controls one of these days because some tools work best at one speed but the footpedal has worked for me so far.

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

Hello Glenn. I've been wanting to have a look at that jig. I've seen it on the McNaughton site but am not aware of who in the US has them or how much they cost. I pretty much love all the McNaughton tools and wish I had a direct line to his products.

It seems that the usual vendors here in the US only sell the most popular items.

Be well.
Ed

Ed, I believe Kelton are trying to have them stocked in USA. I would suggest you email Kel and find out the most suitable stockist. After using the jig for some time, I am impressed by its abilities, its like nothing else I have used.

 

[Gwilym Fisher]

Hi John, I use a Dremel for fine work and often use diamond glass engraving burrs. Suprisingly these do not clog up and leave a smooth finish, especially useful for areas you cannot get into with abrasives. I also use a Wecheer Heavy Duty with reciprocating and rotary handpieces. My favourite for removing material and shaping is the Proxon with a mini Arbortec industrial cutter as it is so light to handle. It is also great for blending in surfaces with the sanding discs.