Robust vs Stubby

[KEW]

This is a question out of curiousity (There is a PM 3520B with my name on it somewhere in the not too distant future).
While I am sure any owner of either of these lathes will tell me their's is a great machine, they seem to be direct competition and I am hoping someone who has researched both can tell me what the concrete differences are (pro's and con's).

 

[Brian McInturff]

I studied the Robust really hard and from everything I heard and read Brent English is a top notch guy. I wanted to go American and the Robust had everything going for it. Except, footprint. That's where I think the Stubby really shines. Also it is very unique with the sliding and pivoting bed. You would be surprised at all the different angles I've had it at already. But, by far the biggest deciding factor was the footprint. For others I've talked with the built in vacuum port was a big plus for the Stubby. I don't think you could go wrong with either one. The PM and others with the sliding headstock were just a turnoff for me. More personal preference than anything really.
Brian

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

Turf 499: Foot print? Really? Stubby's a great lathe, and I'll never say a bad word about Bill, but here are the dimensions: (Let's disregard the motors at this point, cause both Stubby and Robust have motors that stick out about 9-10" on the left):

Stubby is 36" left to right without the bed extended, and 53" with the bed extended.

Robust is 48" left to right without the Tilt Away, 54" with the Tilt Away.

(Width of both Robust and Stubby varies depending on where you have the spindle height set - both are around 32").

So for an inch left to right (54 vs 53) I lost a sale with you? Would have made you a shorter one if you'd have asked.

Thanks to all for the opportunity to comment. Both Robust and Stubby have a growing list of satisfied customers.

 

[GeorgeH]

http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=909

http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=2461

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51472

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26226

 

[Brian McInturff]

Brent,
I should've been more specific about footprint. I was actually talking about at the base. My shop is only 12x16 and I have a full shop full of tools. Maybe when I get a larger shop and need another lathe(I like having another one around for others to turn on) it will definitely be the Robust. I'll get rid of the Oneway at that point. I really like both lathes. So give me another couple years and your seean invoice
Brian

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

Brian, we'll be more than happy to make a lathe for you, whenever you decide to buy. We plan on being around for quite a while.

And, you won't be the first to sell a big white lathe to buy a Robust. (yeah, I know, they're good machines too...)

Thanks much! Brent

 

[dkulze]

I just gotta say, Brent, that it's a real pleasure to have the maker of a lathe show up on the thread comparing and contrasting it with another manufacturer. For my opinion, that's a definite point towards the Robust.

Thanks,
Dietrich

P.S.(I hadn't heard you were hurting for sales. If so, let me know. I'm sure we can work something out, heh, heh. )

 

[C Edward Moore]

I owned a Stubby S500 and bought the Robust 25 x 28

I have had the Robust for over five months and sold a small Stubby, the S500, in order to get it. Only recently did I have a reason to use the vacuum system that Brent provides with the Robust. It is very similar to the Oneway vacuum system and now I am getting the best vacuum I have ever gotten on a lathe with it. The secret is to use pipe dope (compound) on the nipple and to use the thread tape when you screw it in the threads that are on the outboard side. There can not be a better vacuum system for a lathe out there. The S500 did not have a vacuum port.

The Clays, who own Oneway, have a fine reputation for standing by their product. Brent English, who owns and makes the Robusts, is just as honorable and is as helpful as he can be. He chose to honor a deal we made after I was unable to keep my half of the bargain - due to a heart attack. So, not only is the Robust made in America, it is an outstanding lathe supported by an excellent company. I also own a Oneway 1018 - and I am as pleased with it as I am with the Robust, but for different reasons. So please do not interpret my comments as being negative towards Oneway, I think highly of them too.

As one who has had elbow problems, I really like the TiltAway feature for the tailstock on the Robust. It is the best available for securing the tailstock out of the way, and it can be rotated forward as well as back, so that the lefties who like to go to the back side of the lathe can still have the tailstock out of the way.

No matter what lathe you have, if a large piece is mounted out of balance the lathe will walk when the speed is increased beyond a reasonable level. I need to add weight to minimize this, but that is independent of the lathe. They all need the weight.

As far as the footprint is concerned, the Robust is a little bigger than the Stubby 750, especially with the Tilt-Away. But the Stubby is somewhat cramped and I find the freedom of movement around the Robust to be an improvement.

If I was back at the decision point again, what would I do differently? Simple, I would order the Robust 25 x 28 sooner. My second choice was the Vicmarc VL300, and it was a coin toss for third between the Oneway 2436 and the Stubby S750 or S1000.

This is just the humble opinion of a happy Robust owner.

Addendum: I will re-issue my invitation to test drive the Robust in my shop if you are serious about purchasing a Robust. I am near Smith Mountain Lake and Roanoke in Southwest Virginia.

 

[waltben]

Stubby differences

I've got to wonder a bit about comparing the Stubby 750 or 1000 against any 'conventional' lathe. The turret mounted bed makes these so different in capability and use that it's an apple and orange thing. The larger Stubby's are really something between a fixed bed and a dedicated bowl lathe. I've had a 750 for three years and been a member of the user's group almost since it was started. Most owners turn bowls or hollow forms since that's what it's best suited for, but some more usual spindle work. Mine has performed flawlessly it's entire life, as anyone should expect a premium tool to do. It's 30" swing is more than I may ever need, yet I'm thinking about putting riser blocks under the head stock (something one can do with a Stubby, but not a conventional lathe) to get more swing over the bed for oval turning. It weighs over 700 lbs and I seldom have any walking problems with unbalanced pieces. I'm certain a Robust is a great lathe, but you can't realisticaly compare the two. It's like comparing a Oneway to a Vega bowl lathe or a VB.

 

[waltben]

And by the by . . .

This came up last night on the Stubby user group:

"We have a John Jordan Stubby Lathe S750 that is approximately 5 years
old that has never been used and includes: Stronghold Chuck, Stand,
1/2" Bowl Gouge and Armbrace Handle. I would be happy email photos to
anyone that would be interested in purchasing it. We are located near
Fort Smith, Arkansas and hoping for a buyer close enough to pick it up
(I have no idea how I would ship it). Asking price is $4,000.00."

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't already sold.

 

[C Edward Moore]

Walt,
There is some validity in your argument and the Stubby is certainly a different style lathe. I'm glad that your Stubby has performed flawlessly for you. I keep stressing that I had the S500, which is not a large lathe. I had purchased it used in 2002 and I outgrew it. And an S750 would probably have worked fine for me. Certainly an S1000 would have handled anything I would want to turn.

There have been discussions about bearings heating up in the Stubby S750 and in the Oneway 2436. One demonstrator who gets around a bit told me that every Stubby he has demoed on seemed to get "very warm" - to the point of concern on his part. Many times that can be fixed by loosening the locknut on the bearing. These problems may not be serious ones, and I hope that they aren't.

Before Bill Rubenstein got involved with the Stubby I felt that the future of that lathe was in jeopardy in the USA and that parts might become a problem. If the motor goes on a Stubby, it is sufficiently non-standard that I don't know if it could "easily" be replaced.

I indicated my priority list in the post above. Those are all excellent lathes, but my ranking is based on MY value system, which gives the Robust a distinct edge. I would expect others to rank them differently, based on their priorities. A Powermatic 3520 or 4224 would certainly have met my needs and each deserves respect.

A feature of the Robust which has been overlooked in the discussions is the spindle-lock. It locks in four positions and when it is engaged the motor is electrically disconnected. When I think about how many times I have tried to start the Robust and the lock was engaged I just smile because no damage was done. No mad scramble to hit the off switch is needed. It works!

When the Robust is powered up and you are ready to start you make a choice each time. If you rotate the switch to the right (CW), then the lathe rotates normally. If you rotate the switch to the left (CCW) the lathe reverses. I choose to always stop the lathe before reversing it, but the manual says that if it is running forward and you turn the switch to the left, then it will stop the lathe and then reverse it. The other day I was turning something very slowly and did just that. It worked as advertised.

So, there are some subtle features that set the Robust apart, beyond the Tilt-Away, and I like them all.

 

[Paul Andrews]

I recently upgraded my lathe and the robust and stubbys were among the canidates I considered. In my opinion, once you arrive at the 3520 and up category of lathes, all are well built, solid, powerfull and with proper care will outlast the turners lifetime. So the "premium" lathes are providing additional swing and features for their added cost. As each turner has different needs from his/her lathe due to the type of turning they normally do, there are advantages for each lathe you mentioned.

The robust I looked at was the 25" model, these were the points I recalled:

1. American made
2. Excellent warranty
3. 25" swing
4. Stainless steel ways
5. Swing away tail stock (additional cost)
6. Adjustable leg height

There are two current lathe manufactors offering the "swing away" tail stock option. Of these the Robust is the most funtional as the tail stock drops below the ways on the opposite side of the lathe.

The Stubbys I reviewed were the 1000 and the 750. The 1000 is a great lathe with 44" of swing, but it has a one piece stand that weighs more than 400 pounds. Because of the limited access to my shop, this ruled it out.

The Stubby 750,

1. 30" swing
2. Comes standard with two banjo's
3. Auxlliary bed which can be mounted off the headstock
4. Main bed which swings, great for hollowforms
5. Adjustable leg height

I am sure I left out many attributes for both lathes, but these were the most notable in my mind. If price is not a concern, in my opinion you can not go wrong with either of these lathes.

 

[waltben]

And the intent is . . .

Ed,

I never addressed my response to you, that you had a Stubby 500, or the fact that you now have a lathe that you love so dearly. My response was addressed to the fact that the two larger Stubby's are not in the same category as a conventional lathe such as your Robust, and should not be compared to it. A more appropriate comparison might be to the Vicmarc VL300, which is more comparible in features, although less expensive, or Laguna's which is more expensive, but still comparable.

Now for the other comments: No one I know has had a problem with bearings getting too hot. New ones do get warm, but will break in over time. The motor is no more non-standard than the one on your Robust, and I seriously doubt mine or yours will burn out before we go through several sets of head stock bearings (also standard sizes). There's also the urban legend of Stubby beds not seating correctly and causing mis-alignment. I'd be more concerned of a company's financial stability if I was that worried about finding parts in the future. Problem is, that would limit my choices to just the 'big' names and that's not acceptable to me.

In actuality, it is extremely difficult to find a used Stubby 750 or 1000 anywhere, and not because there are too few in the U. S. There's currently 440 members in the Yahoo group, including factory representatives. In four years I've only seen two for sale, and they both were purchased for almost the same price as a new one. People who buy them won't let them go even when they stop using them for whatever reason. A friend of mine has a full-time turning business making spindles and his Stubby sits mostly unused, but he wouldn't sell it on a bet.

As Paul posted, they are both very good lathes and will certainly work for many, many years. The bottom line is what one wants to do and make and what their budget is, not the color of the paint. They each have very different attributes and that is what's important. In fact, if someone didn't want to turn bowls or really large things, they probably shouldn't consider a Stubby at all.

Walt