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Robust Tool Rest + PM3520

E

Ed_McDonnell

Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
643
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Location
Central Florida
Found a Robust Tool Rest under the tree this year and overall I have been pleased with it, but I am disappointed with one thing. If you use it to turn anything over 9" diameter on the PM3520 you will not be able to get the rest closer to the work than about 1/4".

The banjo sticks out further than the tool rest and at 9"+ the work can hit the banjo post if you are closer than 1/4". A quarter of an inch doesn't sound like much, but I like to really snug the rest up to the work for finishing cuts and I find myself going back to the PM toolrest on larger pieces. This is unfortunate because the smooth hardened surface of the Robust rest is perfect for those finished cuts.

As it is, the Robust rest is good. If it had another 0.25" over overhang it would be great on the PM3520.

Ed
 
Have you checked the bevel of your tool. The bevel extends 1/8" or more back from the edge so you need the tool rest further away than this to do the work. I have a custom made Robust tool rest. It has the mini lathe tool rest with the Powermatic tool post. On a 10" bowl the rest will be 3/8 to 1/2" away from the wood and larger bowls will be slightly further up to about an inch.
I haven't had a problem with this kind of extension at all. I'm using a 1/2" bowl gouge and 3/8" thompson detail gouge. I can easily extend either of these tools 3" with no problems.
You might talk to Brent and see if he can make one with the post welded a little further back. On my mini tool rest that probably wouldn't be an option but on the full size rests there may be enough room to do that.
 
Burt - I didn't break out the good camera, but maybe these will be useful to you. Overall I like the Robust rest, I just need to be careful in positioning the banjo.

Ed
 

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John - I hear what you are saying, but there are times when I want to get the rest as close to the work as possible. Can't get as close with the robust on the PM in some instances, but it's not something I can't work around. On the list of things that frustrate and annoy me, it doesn't even make the list.

Ed
 
Ed, your pictures clearly illustrate the problem. I had never noticed how upright the Comfort rests are with little or no projection over the tool rest post. Since I use mine primarily for spindle oriented work it has never been a problem.

I sometimes use my Comfort rest reversed with the curvature toward the work. Again this is in a spindle turning orientation.

I'll be interested in hearing if anyone has a solution.
 
Looks like there's room to do the job right by moving the entire thing forward. I looked on the web site, and couldn't figure out what the problem might be. Deceptive camera angle.

Mine on the Nova's barely out there, but it's pretty long, so no problem on most stuff. Where I need more I use my curved rest. I don't like to hang over any more than I have to, which is one reason I don't like round rests.
 

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Roust tool Rest

I noticed the exact same problem with my PM 3520, thought it was only me having a problem, too bad as this is a great tool rest that maybe needs a little tweaking.

Dan
 
Well I have the opposite problem with the powermatic tool rest. I often use the tool at a lower angle. The top of the powermatic tool rest is so wide that my tool is far way from the work because it's riding on the bevel of the tool rest which is about 3/8" or more from the edge.
 
john lucas said:
Well I have the opposite problem with the powermatic tool rest. I often use the tool at a lower angle. The top of the powermatic tool rest is so wide that my tool is far way from the work because it's riding on the bevel of the tool rest which is about 3/8" or more from the edge.
Click to expand...

I'm with John. I have more issues with the Powermatic rest than my new Robust rest. The one time I had a problem with the Robust rest (it was on an 12" platter) I repositioned the height of the rest and adjusted my angle of cut. I stay pretty much with my 9" robust rest and only break the smaller 4" out for working around the foot of a platter or bowl.

I think that if it pushed out a little farther that it could be better, but not by much. I'd love to see these same rests curved for bowls or platters. I think you could do great things there.
 
I also had to grind off the casting on my Powermatic 6" rest. It had a knob above the tool post that got in the way when using spindle gouges for certain cuts.
I though Oneway had a good idea with the rest they used on the 12" lathe. I've never seen it on their others. It was a flat piece of steel welded at about 45 degrees to the post. Instead of grinding the top of the tool rest to give you a flat area, they ground the part that touches the wood. You ended up with a tool rest that would be extremely close to the wood but still had lots of metal below to reduce vibration. I don't know if they still sell that or not.
The Robust rest has a lot of metal directly under the tool as well, which is what i like.
 
Hi Guys:

Brent from Robust here. I appreciate learning all this good feedback.

First, I must say no rest will do everything. You'll always need a couple of different ones (keeps us manufacturer's happy too 🙂

Anyway, the rest is designed the way it is so that you can drop the tool handle down quite a ways and still stay close to the work, something you can't do with with the round bar rests or the large cast iron rests.

The compromise is it doesn't stick out very far beyond the post, which, depending on your banjo design, might mean your banjo will start to hit, especially if it's got a lot of cast iron in front of the tool rest hole, like the Powermatic. Other lathes, with less cast iron in this spot, don't have the problem.

So Ed, for your personal turning style, is getting close in all applications more important than being able to drop the tool handle to do different cuts? I'm sure others will have different input, and I'm sincerely interested in hearing that too.

Thanks again, there is no better market research than what I get from the AAW and other forums. Brent
 
Robbust tool rest

I just recently purchased a robust 9" tool rest.The problem I'm having is with my 1640 oneway when the toolrest is placed in the banjo the rest is at dead center.If Im using a 3/8 spindle gouge i'm turning above center.There is no room to adjust it down.The reason I purchased it was Cindy Drozda recommended it and that it gave her good tool control.I liked the design of having a 1/4"round steel rod something that one way does not have.Oh well,maybe I can use it on the outboard side.
 
Hi again:

I might be risking getting this kicked off as too commercial, but I do have toolrest selection matrix on the Robust website: http://turnrobust.com/PDF's/Tool_Rest_Matrix.pdf

On it you will note that I state some 1640 owners have been good with the Comfort toolrest, but others report the same problem Rick reported.

Maybe Oneway changed their banjo? I don't know, BUT, Rick if you return your rest I'll replace it with the low-profile variety, which will work perfectly with your 1640.

I stand behind all the rests. If your ordered the wrong size for your lathe, return it for a replacement. The hardened rod is also fully warranted. If you have any issue, return it for free repair or replacement.

Brent at Robust
 
I just bought a 6" and a 9" Robust comfort rest for my PM3520B, and I like them both just fine. I can understand the comments about not being able to get closer than 1/4" to 3/8" away from the work, but so far they get as close as I need to get.

Just a thought here, and maybe Brent would hazard an answer. Depending on the temper needed in the curved steel of the rest, how about heating the metal just above the post weld, and bending it out maybe 1/2". That would take care of the problems mentioned in this string of posts as long as it would not compromise the strength of the tool. Maybe it could be bent out a 1/2" without heating (???).

I realize that the bedding material for the hardened rod would not respond well to the heat (if it was allowed the go that high). Wrap an (old) wet towel around the top to control the heat transfer, and do a quick heat and bend farther down (??).

[FONT=&quot]Of course, I reckon this type of modification would void any expressed warranty due to Brent not having any control over the heating/bending/cooling process. Still………..[/FONT]
 
Brent@TurnRobust said:
Hi Guys:

Brent from Robust here. ... So Ed, for your personal turning style, is getting close in all applications more important than being able to drop the tool handle to do different cuts? ... Brent
Click to expand...

Hi Brent - Not having the the banjo stick out further than the toolrest is more important than tool angle to me, but maybe not for the reasons you may be thinking.

Yesterday I was working on a natural edge bowl. Repositioned the banjo / rest and made sure the bowl would clear the rest. Gave it a spin by hand before turning on as I usually do. Everything cleared the comfort rest just fine, but the high point of the rim clunked into the banjo just enough to rip off a couple chunks of bark (doh!!). I need to change my habits with the Comfort rest on the PM3520. I need to make sure I keep the rest an adequate distance from the work and and take it easy when doing the final check for clearance before turning on. Old habits die hard, but they can be changed. It's a source of occasional frustration with the Comfort rest, but not a fatal flaw.

With respect to dropping the tool handle. There are times I want (need) to do that, but it's not without it's problems on the PM3520. If you drop the handle enough on the PM3520 to do a good sheer cut with the wing of a bowl gouge for example, I find too many times I have to dance around the tool post locking handle and the banjo locking handle. That's true with the PM rest as well as the Comfort rest. As John Lucas has noted, you also have the knuckle in the center of the PM rest to contend with. In addition, when the tool handle is held really low, you are actually riding on the back of the PM rest (which is of course further from the work). So when you take that into consideration your tool ends up about the same distance from the work with about the same amount extended with either the PM or Robust rest. As a matter of fact, you are probably a little closer to the work with the Comfort rest with the handle really low. And the top of the Comfort rest is a much better work surface than the back of the PM rest. Advantage Comfort rest. But dancing around the obstacles on the PM banjo is a hassle so I only drop the handle when I absolutely have to.

I like to use the long side wing of a detail gouge for a lot of finishing cuts now, particularly with punky wood. I don't have to drop the tool handle so this saves me having to work around the banjo obstacles and gives me results as good as what I was getting with the cuts where I had to drop that handle really low. The only thing is that the tool rest needs to be really close to the work. Even an extra 0.25 - 0.375 extension because of tool rest distance from the work really reduces the utility of this technique.

In summary. I don't have any special problem using the Comfort rest with the handle held low and it's actually better (as you intended) in that mode than the PM rest. But not being able to get right up to the work means I can't use the Comfort rest for some cuts I have come to rely on, that don't involve the handle held low. It also requires me to change habits (with respect to quickly repositioning the tool rest) that have been standard routine for me for years. That's hard.

So, for me, not having any part of the banjo stick out more than the tool rest is more important than being able to drop the tool handle low.

It wouldn't take a big change to make the Comfort rest perfect for me on my PM3520. Angling just slightly or moving the post back a tiny bit (3/8"?) so that the banjo didn't stick out would do it.

By the way, I'm using the 12" comfort rest. I assume they are all the same, but in case they are not, now you know.

One other thought on the comfort rest while we are at it. The inner surface of the rest is kind of rough (like you find on some castings right out of the mold). Using an underhand grip and rubbing the rest for control starts to wear out the back of my hand / figner after a while. I've resisted sanding / filing / grinding it smooth because I didn't want to screw up the paint job. So I find myself using an overhand grip more. I'll probably eventually just bite the bullet and get rid of the roughness. Maybe you could check the interior portion of the rest for smoothness as you make them and get rid of any rough spots before painting. Just a thought.

And before any of you start giving me grief about being a wimp 😀, the palms of my hands are plenty tough from years of hard work. But I never did anything that toughened up the backs of my hand / fingers.

Thanks for you interest Brent,

Ed
 
Thanks Brent. Email sent.

You have to love that kind of customer focus and care!! No wonder people love their Robust Lathes so much.

I'll report back after I give it a work out.

Ed
 
Ed_McDonnell said:
Yesterday I was working on a natural edge bowl. Repositioned the banjo / rest and made sure the bowl would clear the rest. Gave it a spin by hand before turning on as I usually do. Everything cleared the comfort rest just fine, but the high point of the rim clunked into the banjo just enough to rip off a couple chunks of bark (doh!!).

SNIP

With respect to dropping the tool handle. There are times I want (need) to do that, but it's not without it's problems on the PM3520. If you drop the handle enough on the PM3520 to do a good sheer cut with the wing of a bowl gouge for example, I find too many times I have to dance around the tool post locking handle and the banjo locking handle. That's true with the PM rest as well as the Comfort rest. As John Lucas has noted, you also have the knuckle in the center of the PM rest to contend with. In addition, when the tool handle is held really low, you are actually riding on the back of the PM rest (which is of course further from the work). So when you take that into consideration your tool ends up about the same distance from the work with about the same amount extended with either the PM or Robust rest. As a matter of fact, you are probably a little closer to the work with the Comfort rest with the handle really low. And the top of the Comfort rest is a much better work surface than the back of the PM rest. Advantage Comfort rest. But dancing around the obstacles on the PM banjo is a hassle so I only drop the handle when I absolutely have to.
Click to expand...

Well, I have to say that I turn for clearance slowly, so the first doesn't normally bother me, but I sometimes forget to tighten the banjo. Everybody has his own DOH(s).

As to dropping the handle, and the problems even a large swing machine can give you, just refuse to play the game. Use a different gouge and cut with the handle parallel to the bed. You don't have to stoop and peer, as so many apparently do who write about their backaches.
 

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MichaelMouse said:
As to dropping the handle, and the problems even a large swing machine can give you, just refuse to play the game. Use a different gouge and cut with the handle parallel to the bed. You don't have to stoop and peer, as so many apparently do who write about their backaches.
Click to expand...

The drop of the handle to about a 45 degree angle is for a sheer cut not a normal push or pull which would be with the handle parallel to the bed. So depending on styles....
 
Steve Worcester said:
The drop of the handle to about a 45 degree angle is for a sheer cut not a normal push or pull which would be with the handle parallel to the bed. So depending on styles....
Click to expand...

You can shear nicely with the handle nearly parallel, that's the beauty of it. You never have to bully the wood, just lead with the bottom of the gouge, trail with the top. Since you're using a constant-angle grind and a constant thickness gouge, it's easy.
 
Steve Worcester said:
That's where I would be "coming from" anyway.
Click to expand...

The way he does it, and a lot of people trying to make a cylindrical gouge do a job the old forged did so well for centuries. I used to try all the latest grinds too, until I realized that the traditional method and tool was the best. No compromises necessary. I hog with the round ones, not finish. Take a look here, now that the Chinese worms have left Photobucket. The width, thickness and twist on the shaving tells the story pretty well.

Or, as a video, often referenced, this one. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.flv On wet wood you can't even break the shaving across endgrain.
 

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Can't find a hook in a tool steel alloy, which, as we know is superior to that crummy forged carbon.

Wouldn't have any problems with the rest being in the way, though. Lots of overhang.
 
Move the post?

In Ed's picture of the Robust tool rest it looks like the tool post could be moved further to the back. I realize that this will move the post away from the edge you are trying to support but with a one inch post and perhaps some creative welding you should be able to keep it ridgid. Just a thought. Bruce
 
Right you are Bruce, we are going to build Ed a sample with the rest actually tipped forward a bit, which in effect is moving the post back. He'll report on how it likes it on this forum in a couple of weeks, after I get it made and sent it him and he has a chance to use it a bit.

Thanks, Brent English, Robust Tools
 
Well I had been looking at some new tool rests for my 3520 - This thread and Brents reply and response have sold me on the Robust! I'll be ordering today
 
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