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Reverse

S

Sean Boyle

Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
115
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Location
Ontario
I am look at a new used lathe and it has reverse. As no lathe I have ever operated had reverse why would you use it. Is it not just a good way to turn your face plate / 4 jaw chuck into a projectile. even our sprur center is designed for one way turning
 
Well you do have to be carefull. I tighten the chuck before I use reverse. Mostly it's used for sanding in the opposite direction. Jury is still out on that one. I've tried it both ways and maybe, just maybe it works on troublesome wood.
the other thing I do on my hand mirrors is turn in reverse from the middle out to the edge. I do this because I am turning down hill with the grain and can use a push cut with the handle at my side for a much more accurate cut and shape. If I did the same cut in forward my arm would be out in space and it's very difficult to rally nail a clean continuous curve when doing that.
Oneway makes a chuck with a set screw to prevent the chuck from coming off. I don't have a problem with my vicmarc but then I would never do this with say a large bowl. It could spin right off.
 
Sean Boyle said:
I am look at a new used lathe and it has reverse. As no lathe I have ever operated had reverse why would you use it. Is it not just a good way to turn your face plate / 4 jaw chuck into a projectile. even our sprur center is designed for one way turning
Click to expand...

Sean
You do have the possibility of things coming off in reverse. ONEWAY chucks and faceplates have set screws to lock them to the spindle so they won't loosen in reverse.

Some uses for reverse:
Hollowing in reveres is easier for some people
Using reverse when turning outboard makes the rotation the same as inboard.
Some folks reverse when sanding when they change grits

If I want to turn beads on a bowl held in a chuck by the foot I usually run the lathe in revers and stand on the other side.

I really like having reverse if I'm turning on the outboard side.
Al
 
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I use it when sanding, it helps to sand in both directions. I also like the dust going away from me. I have set screws on my chucks and face plates to keep them from coming off in reverse. I never turn in reverse.
 
Another use for reverse is for power stropping the skew chisel for a superior sharpened edge. I have a Tormac leather wheel that I use with a #2 MT on the headstock spindle. You need to have the leather wheel rotating away from the skew in order to power strop. Reverse on the lathe enables that process
very quickly.

Lee Tourtelotte
Minnesota Woodturners Association
www.mnwoodturners.org
 
I drill and tap all of my chucks and face plates just as a precaution It can be handy as said for sanding and light cuts on the other side

Ian
 
Left-handers appreciate it, because it allows them to use their clumsy hand as fulcrum and best hand on the tool handle when faceplate turning on the opposite side. Trouble is, the controls are still on the front, so a rewire to a remote is highly recommended.

Trouble with less-than continuous use of reverse on fixed-head lathes is that you have to leave open access to both sides, which means you can't easily make or use a splatterwall to catch the sap of a wet turning or hang racks to hold your tools. Lathes with rotatable heads like the Nova 1624 can be swung 22 to 45 degrees and used in reverse for oversize pieces which don't clear the ways.

If you even think about using reverse, make sure you get a proper insert for your chuck. Novas have them for 1 1/4" at the same price as non-bored. If you bore and tap other equipment, strongly recommend you use brass set (grub) screws to avoid munging the spindle threads.
 
Left hander brings up an interesting issue.
Leftys in classes are often concerned about what they perceive as a right handed lathe.

I just point out
lathe is built for left handers when shaping the outsides of the bowls where I prefer the left hand on the handle
Built for right handers when hollowing the bowls where I prefer the right hand on the handle
I encourage them all to learn to turn with either hand forward.
Choosing the forward hand makes it so much easier to see the work, not get covered in chips, with the forward hand behind the gouge holding it between the forefinger and thumb the back of the hand does not get hit with the chips when roughing, and you can avoid your body being in the way with one hand or the other forward

Using reverse can mitigate some issues but learning to use either hand forward is a better solution in my opinion.


Al
 
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MichaelMouse said:
... strongly recommend you use brass set (grub) screws to avoid munging the spindle threads.
Click to expand...

Good point and also there are steel set screws that have a rounded end rather than the sharp cup tips commonly found on set screws. Those sharp tips are meant for digging in because that is basically the purpose of a set screw. I first discovered the other kinder-gentler type of set screws when I bought some faceplates from Easy Wood Tools.

For what it's worth, I just make sure that the chuck has been firmly seated before reverse turning. I only use reverse once in a blue moon and I would put it in the "kinda nice but not essential" category. A chuck that unscrews itself is not likely to turn itself into any sort of projectile -- maybe more like a rockslide. What actually happens is that it drops straight down and because it is rotating, it is likely to go rolling around the shop like a loose cannon on the deck. You would not want it to drop on your foot or to whack you in the ankle, not to mention any damage to the chuck or turning that might occur. Sanding should not exert enough drag to cause a chuck to unscrew. If it does then maybe too much pressure is being applied. I do most of my sanding of the lathe anyway.

A word of caution: Make sure to use sufficiently long set screws because there is nothing worse than having a short set screw go all the way through the threaded hole in the chuck and get trapped crosswise is the recess area between the threads and the register face -- DAMHIKT. Many lathes have a fairly deeply recessed diameter where set screws are meant to contact the spindle.
 
hockenbery said:
Left hander brings up an interesting issue.
Leftys in classes are often concerned about what they perceive as a right handed lathe.

I just point out
lathe is built for left handers when shaping the outsides of the bowls where I prefer the left hand on the handle
Built for right handers when hollowing the bowls where I prefer the right hand on the handle
I encourage them all to learn to turn with either hand forward.
Choosing the forward hand makes it so much easier to see the work, not get covered in chips, with the forward hand behind the gouge holding it between the forefinger and thumb the back of the hand does not get hit with the chips when roughing, and you can avoid your body being in the way with one hand or the other forward
Click to expand...

If you turn the piece with what will be inside facing the headstock first, you can use your good hand for the handle and the other for a fulcrum. Just reverse and hollow toward the headstock again once the outside is prepped. Keeps the first team on the field. The bench can get some playing time when the turning's easy.

If I hear that someone's getting "chips" rather than shavings, I worry. Name of the game is shaving, and the easy way to start a shaving cut is to establish the fulcrum with an overhand grip, and arc the tool into (and possibly through) the ghost high spots. Since the gouge is flute out from the work, gravity normally takes hold before shavings can reach the heel of your hand if you keep a high pitch angle. I do let things pack there for an easy controlled push into my shavings bucket once the piece is near round and the shavings very long. Can't always get them to fall into the bag from all points of the curve when they're large.
 
MichaelMouse said:
If I hear that someone's getting "chips" rather than shavings, I worry. Name of the game is shaving, .
Click to expand...

MM,

Chips is woodturner speak for shavings. Vocabulary can impede communication.
No need to worry! In roughing the shavings are large - an 1/8 thick and 3/4 inch wide with rough edges.
These usually break into 1 to 10" lengths or are limited in length by the interrupted cut.

With a little practice anyone can learn to turn with either hand forward and benefit from it.
The body does most of the work guiding the tool.
Not all people care to invest the time and they do okay with one hand forward.
It's a choice.
 
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Vocabulary

hockenbery said:
MM,

Chips is woodturner speak for shavings. Vocabulary can impede communication.
No need to worry! In roughing the shavings are large - an 1/8 thick and 3/4 inch wide with rough edges.
These usually break into 1 to 10" lengths or are limited in length by the interrupted cut.

With a little practice anyone can learn to turn with either hand forward and benefit from it.
The body does most of the work guiding the tool.
Not all people care to invest the time and they do okay with one hand forward.
It's a choice.
Click to expand...

In metal work we don't want long shavings and for most materials we want the chip breaker to work and produce little chips that look like sixes and nines. That is the trough on the carbide inserts favored for wood, a chip breaker. Anyway, I'm trying to make nice long curls now. When I'm piling nice long fluffy wood shavings, in my mind I'm thinking I am making nice sixes and nines! My speed and feed are right which is how you create metal sixes and nines, my terminology would be strange to someone that wasn't an old metal turner.

. . . and about hands, I prefer not to eat the waste wood. I am ambidextrous, I can turn just as bad with either hand and lead with whichever is best to keep me in the position I want to be and eating a minimum of sixes and nines or whatever else is flying. Never know when it will be chunks of nice fresh grub in some of this wood!

Hu
 
When using reverse on my Jet (has set screws) I drop a few lead shot from shotgun shells before the set screw. They tighten on the spindle and do not mark it up. This is good for other set screws as well; to loosen just tap with a wooden or plastic mallet.
 
For what it's worth.......

For many years, I used step pulleys and a single speed motor, but after finally converting my Woodfast lathe to VS about 5 years ago, I finally have reversing capability.

I've heard about bending the fibers of the endgrain, and using reverse to control that from happening. This makes sense, but I've found that reverse didn't help my sanding at all.....no improvement in surface quality.

I have a theory about this.......If I had reverse 25 or 30 years ago, it might have made a difference, but during all that time that I didn't have reverse capability, I've been improving my skill level with sharpening and tool control. Back then, my "tool finish" prior to sanding was horrible, and required a lot of sanding. With lots of sanding, the wood fibers very well may have benefited from reversing the rotation. With a better tool finish, I speculate that the reverse option isn't as important as it would be for someone who requires excessive sanding.....

(I'm now doing about 1/10th the sanding I used to do back then, but, I am also spending double, or triple the amount of tool time...... The trade off results in a more level and finer surface......much better for the final sanded surface.......and, an absolute necessity for anyone who wants nice crisp edges and details! :cool2🙂

Spalted woods are an exception to the rule......many times, no matter how sharp your tool, and no matter how well you can control the cut, lots of sanding is the only thing that can be done for really punky torn grain. Here the wood fibers may benefit from reverse when lots of sanding is required. I generally try to stay away from really punky wood, but still have to deal with it sometimes, because I really love spalting!......Are there any opinions about reverse sanding and punky wood with bad tear-out? I'll have to admit that I haven't experimented with this particular aspect of reverse sanding......so, your opinion/observations/experiences with this is sought and welcomed.......😉

The one and ONLY thing that counts.......is results. There are a lot of dead-end streets that do not/did not get there, but many times, there is more than one road to success! 😀


ooc
 
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funny all the comments about lefty I am one. In grade 8 the woodworking teacher was not going to let me use the lathe because I was left handed I had to prove to him that I could operate it as a right handed person. 35 years later and 3 years back on the lathe until this thread I didn't realise that I use both hands forward depending on the angle I am trying to achieve. It is great to be ( ok spell checker wont work on this) ambidecterist
 
Sean Boyle said:
got it "ambidextrous". I never won a spelling Bee
Click to expand...

Me to, doesn't matter which way you need to cut, just change hands....

Reverse is" A Got To Have" for me, don't know what I would do without it...

Sanding and polishing is a snap....
 
Me nether Sean 🙂 .But further to my early post I too are left handed retired carpenter joiner and have learnt to use both hands and have to agree with Al. I all so find when showing someone at the club how to make a cutI can stand on the other side of the lathe and help them so they can see from their side what is going on if they are having trouble hollowing and with the lathe turning in the right ( before you get into me ) rotation for them not revers

Ian
 
I was in the shop today and noticed the thread holes for set screws in the collet of the chuck. Never noticed them before as they where never needed
 
Sean Boyle said:
I was in the shop today and noticed the thread holes for set screws in the collet of the chuck. Never noticed them before as they where never needed
Click to expand...

Hopefully the tapped holes were in the spindle adapter. If you have a collet chuck, the collet is the compression sleeve that holds the workpiece.
 
Sean Boyle said:
got the lathe I will let you know how it goes
Click to expand...

I'll tell you my favorite use for reverse. When I want to remove a chuck from the spindle, I use reverse at the slowest speed (after first breaking the chuck free from the register face, of course). On my lathe the slowest speed is about ½ rev/sec. This allows me to unscrew a heavy load without worrying about damaging the spindle threads because I can use both hands to cradle the chuck and turning. Before that, I had to use one hand to rotate the handwheel which left me with just one hand to hold a sometimes heavy load.
 
I had a Eureka moment in the shop today. I now have the new/used lathe with reverse. The outbound spindle is 1 1/8 8tpi left hand thread and the lathe came with 2 face plates a 6" and 3 " both LH tread. This is great from a standing point if I turn in reverse when working on the outbound side. This is where my not so eureka moment occurs. I can not use 4 jaw chucks on the outbound side I have a oneway talon and from what I can see they do not make a 1 1/8 8 TPI LH thread adapter. Does anyone know of any 4 Jaw chuck with this spindle size is available
 
Sean, you can buy a blank taper from Oneway and have a machine shop tap the threads. They have to have the tap of course. I had one done in Milton about ten years ago for 1 1/4 x 7 TPI reverse for a custom built bowl lathe. Oneway will also do custom threads.
 
oneway

Sean Boyle said:
I had a Eureka moment in the shop today. I now have the new/used lathe with reverse. The outbound spindle is 1 1/8 8tpi left hand thread and the lathe came with 2 face plates a 6" and 3 " both LH tread. This is great from a standing point if I turn in reverse when working on the outbound side. This is where my not so eureka moment occurs. I can not use 4 jaw chucks on the outbound side I have a oneway talon and from what I can see they do not make a 1 1/8 8 TPI LH thread adapter. Does anyone know of any 4 Jaw chuck with this spindle size is available
Click to expand...



Sean,

Shouldn't be any issue as far as diameter, I see Oneway threads as big as one and 3/16 inch for the Talon. They say they will custom cut threads and if it is an NC operation it might be very reasonable. I would contact them first. If you don't want to be swapping adapters getting another Talon still might be best just for jaw compatibility and familiarity with both.

Hu

Oneway info:
http://www.oneway.ca/chucks/adaptors.htm
 
great minds?

Mike Brazeau said:
Sean, you can buy a blank taper from Oneway and have a machine shop tap the threads. They have to have the tap of course. I had one done in Milton about ten years ago for 1 1/4 x 7 TPI reverse for a custom built bowl lathe. Oneway will also do custom threads.
Click to expand...

I see we were typing basically the same thing at the same time. Great minds or . . . 😀

Hu
 
Sean Boyle said:
I had a Eureka moment in the shop today. I now have the new/used lathe with reverse. The outbound spindle is 1 1/8 8tpi left hand thread and the lathe came with 2 face plates a 6" and 3 " both LH tread. This is great from a standing point if I turn in reverse when working on the outbound side. This is where my not so eureka moment occurs. I can not use 4 jaw chucks on the outbound side I have a oneway talon and from what I can see they do not make a 1 1/8 8 TPI LH thread adapter. Does anyone know of any 4 Jaw chuck with this spindle size is available
Click to expand...

I have had Oneway make a custom spindle adapter and the cost was $25 plus the cost of a blank adapter. They will also do other machining operations. I sent them a drawing to have a spindle adapter counterbored for a lathe spindle that had two register faces.
 
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