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Reverse chucking options

Joined
Dec 24, 2024
Messages
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Location
Berkeley, CA
There seem to be several ways to reverse chuck a bowl for final clean up, especially tenon shaping or removal. For someone who allows some bowls to warp out of round, which of these should be the priority?

  • Jam chuck, with final tenon clean up using a carving tool. Tail stock impedes access for some work.
  • Longworth chuck (genius), but seems limited to round bowls?
  • Vacuum chuck (expensive, but worth it compared to others? I do have an air compressor)
  • Cole jaws, limited to round?
 
Vacuum chuck is my first thought. Friction (jam) chuck is my second. Cole jaws are not limited to round, but you have to be a little creative. The bumpers do not have to be in the same positions; some can be closer to or farther from the center. And you can remove a couple and hold the work woth 4. Remember you can still use a tailstock with the Coles.
 
Only used jam chucks for many years. Have a decent collection of them on a couple of shelves. Got a vacuum system a couple of years ago and use it when it seems like the best option. Most of the time I go with the old jam chucks. Faster than anything else because that is what I am used to. Any other option takes more planning and time to set up.
 
Jam chuck, with final tenon clean up using a carving tool. Tail stock impedes access for some work.

Like any thing else in turning there are trade offs with everything.
Part of it depends on your tools and skills and the limitations imposed by them.


I like using a friction drive. It lets me line up the rims of a warped bowl to get the biggest bowl out of the warped one.
Let’s me true up the tenon and finish turn the outside.


In the tips I posted part of a demo I do on green wood turning.
The last part is returning a warped bowl. It’s just one simple method that works
 
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Like any thing else in turning there are trade offs with everything.
Part of it depends on your tools and skills and the limitations imposed by them.


I like using a friction drive. It lets me line up the rims of a warped bowl to get the biggest bowl out of the warped one.
Let’s me true up the tenon and finish turn the outside.


In the tips I posted part of a demo I do on green wood turning.
The last part is returning a warped bowl. It’s just one simple method that works
This is an excellent video, thank you. I've been doing the jam chuck... with a mouse pad which I see you discourage. And that's good to know because my experience hasn't been great. I probably need to make more of them in different sizes too.
 
Cole jaws, limited to round?
The Cole jaws on the left are pretty much limited to round, but the Oneway Mega Jumbo Jaws
on the right have a slot where the grippers can be individually placed to accommodate out
of round, or other unusual shapes.
Cole jaws, Nova and One Way strong hold.jpg


=o=
 
The Cole jaws on the left are pretty much limited to round, but the Oneway Mega Jumbo Jaws
on the right have a slot where the grippers can be individually placed to accommodate out
of round, or other unusual shapes.
View attachment 71093


=o=
Actually, with a bit of creativity (making shaped pieces from scrap wood and screws through the back into the scraps to hold them in place), One can mount pretty much any shape on a set of cole jaws on pretty much any center so desired (Only limitation being that your cuts will follow a circle, of course) But then, it's easy enough to put a tenon on a piece of scrap and then cut and shape the scrap such that it will also hold the work piece, as well - Only difference being that with the cole jaws you can (depending on how you fasten things) remove and replace the piece as you work on it, one would think - I didn't have any pictures, nor do I still have the finished project (or the scraps) but I mounted a pyramidal shaped piece on my 10 inch cole jaws so as to cut some decorative grooves concentrically around the slopes of the pyramid, and realized that by changing where I screwed down the scraps (or the buttons) it'd be simple enough to change the center of the piece in relation to the axis of rotation...
 
I'm not as experienced as some so maybe I just got spoiled early but I love my vacuum chuck. As long as I can get a flat surface to apply suction to I can get the bottom cleaned up. I usually let a few projects collect up before I hook it up so it's worth the effort. You'll need a vacuum pump for it, not an air compressor.
 
I'm not as experienced as some so maybe I just got spoiled early but I love my vacuum chuck. As long as I can get a flat surface to apply suction to I can get the bottom cleaned up. I usually let a few projects collect up before I hook it up so it's worth the effort. You'll need a vacuum pump for it, not an air compressor.
It's possible to get a vacuum from an air compressor because of the Venturi effect, implemented in a Venturi vacuum generator. These are also for the vacuum bags (or presses) used in veneering. This is an example of a vacuum chuck (which I have never seen in RL) that uses an air compressor.
 
Only used jam chucks for many years. Have a decent collection of them on a couple of shelves. Got a vacuum system a couple of years ago and use it when it seems like the best option. Most of the time I go with the old jam chucks. Faster than anything else because that is what I am used to. Any other option takes more planning and time to set up.
what do you use between the jam chuck and the bowl to protect it?
 
There seem to be several ways to reverse chuck a bowl for final clean up, especially tenon shaping or removal. For someone who allows some bowls to warp out of round, which of these should be the priority?

  • Jam chuck, with final tenon clean up using a carving tool. Tail stock impedes access for some work.
  • Longworth chuck (genius), but seems limited to round bowls?
  • Vacuum chuck (expensive, but worth it compared to others? I do have an air compressor)
  • Cole jaws, limited to round?
I am a relatively new turner (1.5 years) but have experimented with all these except the Longworth chuck. Since you're doing final clean up, and I assume light cuts, a jam chuck or a vacuum chuck would work great. A jam chuck you can just make yourself (less wait time and expense, yay!) and a vacuum chuck is also a good option with a few caveats. The pros are that you can mount most things and take away the tailstock. The cons, in my view, are: only works on the least porous of woods. If you try something more porous, like cottonwood for example, the vacuum chuck will not hold it. Additionally, it is VERY difficult to get a piece centered on a vacuum chuck. If you still have the live center hole you can pull the tailstock up and use it to position the piece on the vacuum chuck which helps a lot but isn't guaranteed to mount it on center (so it might be tougher to remove/shape the tenon evenly). Also depending on the size of your piece you may not be able to seat the chuck properly. It sounds like I'm talking you out of the vacuum chuck but I have one and I use it a lot to make what I call "pillows" (double-sided shallow bowls) and occasionally for bottom finishing or tenon shaping/removal.

Regarding the vacuum chuck: depending on where you buy, you may need to experiment with various parts before you get it right. My setup (happy to share info on make, parts, etc) took a bit of back and forth and a lot of waiting for mail to come in to finally get it to work right. You'll need a vacuum pump and the chuck setup itself (2 different companies).
 
I'm not as experienced as some so maybe I just got spoiled early but I love my vacuum chuck. As long as I can get a flat surface to apply suction to I can get the bottom cleaned up. I usually let a few projects collect up before I hook it up so it's worth the effort. You'll need a vacuum pump for it, not an air compressor.
Perhaps you can change your set-up. My rotary union (adapter) has a 2-3" tube slides into the spindle. About two seconds in and two seconds out.
 

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  • 1- Vacuum set-up at Lathe -P1050293.jpg
    1- Vacuum set-up at Lathe -P1050293.jpg
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There seem to be several ways to reverse chuck a bowl for final clean up, especially tenon shaping or removal. For someone who allows some bowls to warp out of round, which of these should be the priority?

  • Jam chuck, with final tenon clean up using a carving tool. Tail stock impedes access for some work.
  • Longworth chuck (genius), but seems limited to round bowls?
  • Vacuum chuck (expensive, but worth it compared to others? I do have an air compressor)
  • Cole jaws, limited to round?


Green wood or dry? Twice turned and round or rough turned and warped?
I have cole jaws, vacuum chucks/pump, and have made many jam chucks. But with the way I usually work now, I almost never use them.

Note: This way is probably not useful for twice-turned green wood. (So if that's the plan, skip now to the next message.)

But for turning from dry wood, I work in a completely different way. I mount a screw chuck to the flat top of the blank, turn the outside, the bottom, and the foot, then inside the foot I make a shallow recess to fit chuck jaws, usually 50mm. I turn some detail around and inside the recess, making sure it's perfectly smoothed inside. I then smooth, sand, and apply finish to the entire outside and the bottom. The bottom side is now completely finished.

Then, I remove it from the screw chuck, turn the piece around and hold by the recess and turn, smooth, and apply finish to the rim and the inside/top. Now both top and bottom are completely done. No need to reverse and clean up anything. No worrying about how to hold an oddly shaped piece. No vacuum chuck, cole jaws, jam chuck needed - once the finish cures the piece is immediately ready to give away, auction, donate, or even sell, if you're into that.

I've been working this way for years for everything from 6" bowls to 20" platters. For me, it saves a lot of time and effort.

Some turning police don't like the idea of leaving the recess in the bottom but I do. It adds detail, people are surprised and pleased when they turn the piece over to look at the bottom, As a bonus the recess creates a great little protected "shadow box" ring to sign the work. I even have a few "converts" now working the same way.

The real beauty of this method is once you turn the piece over, turn/smooth/finish to the top side, it's done.

As I said, this method may not be the best for wet wood turners. But since I almost never turn wet wood, it works for me. Some examples:

Cherry (made for a girl who lost two her brother and mother)
bottom_cherry_IMG_7424.jpg

Olive, from a special slab
penta_olive_comp_IMG_7459.jpg

14" and 19.5" Sapele platters, in use at the Jordan household.
platters_two_comp.jpg

19" sapele platter with 3-axis base - recess on this one is the circle of arcs inside the three little triangular-ish sections.
The recess doesn't need to be deep to hold, just 1/8" or so. I have NEVER had a piece come off the lathe.
The very wide foot makes it quite stable. Undercut on the rim makes it easy to lift and carry, even loaded with goodies.
I turned this about 10 years ago if I remember correctly. Was auctioned for charity.
(One point: it is advisable to turn a piece like this with finesse rather than heavy force. No catches allowed.)
platterB.jpg

JKJ
 
Perhaps you can change your set-up. My rotary union (adapter) has a 2-3" tube slides into the spindle. About two seconds in and two seconds out.
Mine is similar. My vacuum pump is on a rolling cart with a few other things that don't need to be in arms reach. When I say worth the effort I mean getting the cart with the pump, hooking it up, doing what I need to do and then putting everything back. It's not a big deal, it's just something I usually do. Since I use Waterlox as a finish a lot I end up with several things on the drying rack in my clean room so I just do a few at a time.
 
Since I plan on making many boxes in the future I'm finding this discussion interesting. While vacuum chucking or Cole jaws aren't a normal method for boxes, when doing some cross grain boxes there are some similarities with bowl turning.

This leads me to a question though, about jam chucks. The data I've seen so far suggests that softer woods make for better suited jam chucks. What are the thoughts on using construction lumber for jam chucks? My thought would be to glue 2xX material to a screw block or fasten a face plate to it. I'm i assuming something here that isn't ideal and should be considering an alternative to construction lumber?

Gregory
 
Since I plan on making many boxes in the future I'm finding this discussion interesting. While vacuum chucking or Cole jaws aren't a normal method for boxes, when doing some cross grain boxes there are some similarities with bowl turning.

This leads me to a question though, about jam chucks. The data I've seen so far suggests that softer woods make for better suited jam chucks. What are the thoughts on using construction lumber for jam chucks? My thought would be to glue 2xX material to a screw block or fasten a face plate to it. I'm i assuming something here that isn't ideal and should be considering an alternative to construction lumber?

Gregory
Pine, birch, basswood - all soft woods, make wonderful jam chucks.... But generally I'll use any piece of scrap wood to make a jam chuck, I don't worry too much about how soft (or hard) it is it just has to be solid with no cracks (so it won't come apart when spinning)
 
I agree with Brian, whatever scrap I have around. But if I were buying something to use, I'd get poplar.
I might end up with this myself. I'm new to turning and planning on getting a bunch of poplar to turn. I'll be doing bead and cove sticks in it, box form studies and the like. Do invariably I'll have plenty of offcuts and spindle scraps of it lying around.

Gregory
 
Since I plan on making many boxes in the future I'm finding this discussion interesting. While vacuum chucking or Cole jaws aren't a normal method for boxes, when doing some cross grain boxes there are some similarities with bowl turning.

This leads me to a question though, about jam chucks. The data I've seen so far suggests that softer woods make for better suited jam chucks. What are the thoughts on using construction lumber for jam chucks? My thought would be to glue 2xX material to a screw block or fasten a face plate to it. I'm i assuming something here that isn't ideal and should be considering an alternative to construction lumber?

Gregory
Cross grain boxes will ovalize as they dry or the tension goes out of the wood, so bowl type reverse chucking methods are appropriate. (BTW, I prefer 'covered bowls' for these as you're actually making 2 bowls and fitting them together, while what a woodturner considers a box is generally end grain for stability and a fussy, pride enhancing fit.)

For end grain boxes, which don't ovalize appreciably, a simple 'jam' chuck, made from a chuck or face plate mounted spindle turned down to the correct diameter to seat the box top and bottom works very well. Where you live Greg, you're drowning in Tulip Poplar. Get some, make cylinders 6" long by a diameter a little larger than your boxes, put a good tenon on one end, true up the poplar after it's mounted, and you're good to go for many boxes at a cost of pennies.
(I use cedar fence posts purchased when on sale in the spring)
 
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Where you live Greg, you're drowning in Tulip Poplar. Get some, make cylinders 6" long by a diameter a little larger than your boxes, put a good tenon on one end, true up the poplar after it's mounted, and you're good to go for many boxes at a cost of pennies.
This was my exact plan. Getting ahold of 16/4 kiln dried poplar is not expensive or difficult. So I'm sure I'll have plenty of sizes i can work in from 2-4" quite easily. I will more than likely start with 2" boxes especially for studies.

As a side note, long term I will investigate doing cross grain boxes as well. Both forms are appealing to me. I will however hold off on them until I've made plenty of endgrain boxes.

Gregory
 
Cross grain boxes will ovalize as they dry or the tension goes out of the wood, so bowl type reverse chucking methods are appropriate.

In addition, for face orientation (cross grain), I recommend using a tapered fit between the lid and the box instead of the "traditional" woodturner's fit. This is especially helpful for large Beads of Courage boxes made from glued-up boards.

This way, if the box or lid go slightly oval with the seasons the lid will still fit nicely (no chance of sticking)

This one has an internal taper on the box, taper on the lid fits inside.
BOC_E_IMG_7162.jpg BOC_E_IMG_7171.jpg

This one has an internal taper on the lid which fits over an outside taper on the box.
BOC_bead_IMG_6686.jpg
BOC_C_Jack_00_IMG_6687.jpg


For small boxes, either end or face grain, I sometimes make an internal taper on the box so the lid can fit down inside a bit. I think it looks good.

I put pictures of one like this in the section on turning brass on pages 8-13 of the PDF document in this thread:

JKJ
 
I’ve used all the common methods. My least favourite ( I threw it away) was a Longworth Chuck. Next least favourite was Cole Jaws (still have a set, now unused) Jam Chuck is good if you have suitable material to hand. A revolving centre works for most or some of the tenon removal, but my favourite is a home made Donut Chuck. The is the most secure way of holding a workpiece I’ve found so far. You can even use it on a vase or hollow form, try that with a Longworth Chuck or Cole Jaws - No Don’t! 😂
 
For warped dried rough turned bowls, I’ll use friction drive. I have some wooden direct thread ones made up of various sizes, but a lot of times I just use the chuck and jaws that the bowl is going to be reversed into.

For tenon removal, I use the wooden versions I’ve made. I take the tenon down to 1/8-1/4” dia at the bowl bottom, then use a small flex saw with no tooth set to cut off the nub. I have enough bottom access to dress it up the way I like and can easily sand off the small nub left.

I have cole jaws, haven’t used them in years. Have considered a vac system and chuck, just not interested in the cost, extra equipment, and set up, when I already have a process that works very well.
 
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