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Results of the Fall 2005 AAW Forum goblet contest

Jeff Jilg

Jeff Jilg

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Congratulations to the winners of the Fall 2005 goblet contest

1st Brian Rosencrantz
2nd Pascal Oudet
3rd Ed Kelle


Our original judge was out of the country. We were fortunate enough to find another world class turner to judge the contest - Trent Bosch.

Trent's comments on the contest:
The quality of the pieces was overall pretty good and I would like to congratulate everyone for there efforts. I am interested in nontraditional approaches to traditional objects so that was the main criteria I looked for in the judging of these pieces. There are lots of people that can turn a great goblet but taking it further is to me more satisfying.

---
The winners will be announced on the AAW homepage and in the Winter AW Fall Journal. Thanks to everyone who submitted entries.
 
Everyone done a great job!
And congrats to the winners!
But IMO
From a non contestant view I see it unfair to have just one judge to determine the winner!
Everyone has their own style of turning that they like and some pieces might not fit that criteria, as he stated in his comments, so is that fair to the more traditional style of turning?
Or maybe the judge likes a more traditional style and not the nontraditional style. Would that be fair?
If this was a nontraditional judging then the contest should have stated “lets see your nontraditional goblets†contest.
I think a panel of judges should be used. Or do like the first contest and have a poll feature to determine the winner by the members here!
Jim
 
The poll feature and voting will not be used.

All judges have their bias and Trent was nice enough to share his thoughts on the process he used. Our original judge would have used a different process. Frankly I am very happy that Trent volunteered to judge the contest when he was asked at the last minute. Our original judge is out of the country. I doubt there is every any contest or exhibition where everyone is happy with the process or the results.

A panel may or may not be a better alternative. Panels can have results which folks disagree with as well.
 
Personally, I entered the contest and as I was going through the goblets I picked the exact same ones the judge did. Not exactly in that order but I thought these 3 showed imagination and originality.
 
I looked through all the entries, and after totally discounting my own, I figured first and second the same, but was totally up in the air over third.

To all of the entrants, Good job, your work serves as an inspiration to all of us.

JimQ
 
I will add my congratulations to the winners. Very original work and the direction the craft is taking. I will look forward to read the "how I did that that" the winner will be posting. Let's hope the mantra of 'First in show and it still didn't sell' is not operative here.
 
I gotta say, I am shocked and honored with third. I was amazed at all the incredible works that were entered. I almost didn't enter when I saw the rest, so I am glad I gave it a go.

I sure hope we get many more entries in future contests, it is great to see all the great works being done.

Thanks to Jeff for putting this contest together.
 
Discussions via email are difficult

Jim Ketron said:
... But IMO
From a non contestant view I see it unfair to have just one judge to determine the winner! ... I think a panel of judges should be used. ...
Jim
Click to expand...
Hi Jim,
I think it could be nearly impossible to have a truly functional panel discussion of their perceptions and votes via email. I have organized a number of photography contests and have noted that the time and intensity of discussions that are required to decide upon the top photos and eventually the ranking are extensive. Alternatively, and more condusive to electronic judging, is to simply have 3 or more judges rank the entries numerically, add the scores, verify that the judges agree with the results determined mathamatically, make appropriate changes (this is where it could get ugly), and post the winners.

Having said all of this, I think for the present informal contest with so few entries, a single judge (yes, burdened by all of his preferences, prejudices, and proclivities) is appropriate and the results are sufficiently valid. Would a different judge (or panel of judges) provided a different set of winners? Maybe. As John Lucas mentioned, I would creating a very different goblets for Bosch, Houslak, Drozda, Ellsworth or any other professional. I guess if the contestants are unhappy, they can ask for a refund of their entry fee. 🙂

John
 
Fun and Educational!

I'd just like to say THANKS for the opportunity to participate and share in the fun. I think this type of contest is great because it obviuosly encourges people to try some turning that they wouldn't have necessarily attempted. After all, isn't expanding woodturning awareness and education the primary goal of the AAW?

I think there was a great set of entries and am surprised that there weren't more. I get great ideas by viewing what others have done. Many times I see concepts that never would have occurred to me. I find this very educational.
 
contest

For the contest I turned my first goblet ever. I would have to say I won by finding an opportunity to turn something new that I had avoided before now. My entry was simple and certainly lacked what Trent was looking for. While I sat here reading his comments I first felt cheated by not knowing up front what the criteria was. Did it really following the article in the AAW magazine? I don't think so. In fact my goblet may not be considered following the article. Many contestants took an artistic license with their turning and I was able to see their own expressions of a goblet. Trent looked for entries that looked outside of a traditional goblet. So instead of requesting more specific rules to the contest I will jump out of the box and try to be more creative with my entries. Maybe the rules should be to turn a goblet with the understanding of it being wide open as far as design. Don't even mention that it should be “in line†with the feature story. Maybe “in line†is just the wrong choice of words. Regardless win or not I will continue to enjoy submitting my entries and seeing everyone else’s.
mkart
 
Judges sometimes tell us what they think and other times we don't know how they choose items. The latter case applies to the annual juried AAW exhibition which is held in parallel to the annual symposium. Most judges do not share their ideas on how pieces were selected.

I enjoy seeing all the entries as they come in. There is a lot of creativity in the various pieces. The contest is meant to be fun. As S.Clark has pointed out, it furthers the AAW mission statement. We had 20 entries of all different types. Exploration as an artist is part of the process of growing our skills.

I've always viewed woodturning as similar to golf. You're not out there to beat the other guys. In golf the objective is to have fun and to get your best score on a particular course. That's what I try to do when turning a piece - have fun, and improve my skills a bit more each time.

We tried to keep the rules simple, yet open enough to allow for freedom of expression. As we wind down this contest and announce the next one there will be other opportunities to explore your talents.
 
What does it mean?

I disagree with Jim's assessment of the contest because I view it from a different perspective. This was not intended to determine the best goblet turner of all time and award them the title of "Goroundus Magnificus" and a million dollars.

Putting it in perspective, we were asked to submit entries and several people did so. A judge was asked to evaluate them and he did. So, it was determined that the work of three people would be honored on this occasion. It does NOT mean that the work of others was regarded as inferior. It means that a selection was made. End of story. Those honored should be very pleased and should enjoy any attention that they receive as a result of their work being identified in such a positive manner. Comments by several others suggest that there is merit in the selection of the three pieces. This was not a process that required the use of the third decimal place and I for one hope that it never does require it. The future of woodturning in America does not depend upon the results of this contest.
 
Ed
Everyone has their opinion and I just gave mine! Just as you did yours! I do not try to belittle anyone in my posts and I think I’m a nice person!
I'm well aware of what this contest was for! And that it was not for millions of dollars! 🙄 or a prestigious award for the world to see! I was simply voicing my opinion for future contests! And in no way was I implying that anyone’s work was inferior! As I stated in the first few sentences! They were all nice pieces IMO!
My post was not to take away from the contest and or the winners.
I can see this site is not up for suggestions or comments unless I’m a “Big Hat†as this has been discussed before on other topics, and if that’s what the AAW and the moderators want then so be it!
 
I say congratulations to the winners and everyone else that submitted a PIC and entered in the contest. All the entries were GREAT! I believe it takes courage to submit a turning to a contest or bring a turning to a club meeting because each piece we turn (IMHO) is in a way an extension of us. There was not one turning that was "better" then any other, rather they were simply different. Sometimes it can be hard to differentiate between the two. This was my first contest and I am grateful to have had the opportunity. VWNW
 
Even though I didn't enter the contest (time constraints), I thought the rules were fairly clear: a goblet in line with the feature story in American Woodturner. Well, that feature story starts with a pierced goblet on the front cover of the magazine! And the goblets in the article span the range from traditional to ... ?art?. One of the goblets isn't even wood, it's epoxy. Check the article out.

Personally, I thought the entries were very good, especially the "first time" ones. There's a lot of talent here.
 
Relax, take a deep breath.

I think that far too much has been extrapolated from my remarks. My point was that this was a simple contest, winners have been declared, and I would like to see the contest remain simple. My comments would have been the same no matter what the hat size involved happened to be. I am opposed to the litigious nature of our society and I try to resist that trend whenever possible. More judges do not necessarily produce better results, the additional voices simply serve to add weight to the group decision. It has been said that a camel is a horse designed by a committee, as has been said of an elephant and a mouse.

It's the old computer acronym, K.I.S.S. And it is independent of who is involved. Apply the principle and forget the emotion.

And there is the acronym F.I.D.O. that was popularized by a brave Marine. Forget It, Drive On.

I think Trent made some excellent choices and I thank him for judging the contest. There were 20 outstanding entries, I applaud each of them, and I am thankful that I was not tasked with ranking them. 😱
 
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Thank you for asking Ron.

Polling in the forum is equivalent to forum members voting for the winners.

It has been pointed out to me that selection of the winners with that method is subject to "gaming" to put it politely, or cheating to put it bluntly. How could this be done?

Let's say I submit a piece. Now I just go to my day job and have 50 of my favorite co-workers signup on the forum. Normally these people would care less about woodturning. But let's say I get them to all sign up. And I give them the procedure to go to the voting thread and they all vote for me. Instant winner!

As the moderator, there is no way to block that type of activity. Even if I cut off new memberships for a month someone could just get their 50 favorite buddies to sign up for the contest that will happen the following quarter. Blocking people from joining is basically a bad idea anyhow.

So the next possible solution would be to limit voting privileges to people who posted a certain number of times, etc. That doesn't work either. We have a lot of people who actually are interested in woodturning. They rarely login or post to the forum, but they read the messages on the forum daily. It would not be fair to exclude them.

There is no easy solution to the self-vote thru polling/voting. So it is no longer an option.

That is the situation now. In the next few months we are planning to install new updated software on the AAW website. Part of that software includes the ability to vote. I will be able to setup voting privileges which are restricted to AAW members. If we determine this is the best longterm route to go, then that is a possibility.

I appreciate you asking the question. The explanation is long, but it covers the options that have been considered in this option.

The turning contest is supposed to be fun - providing a venue for expanding woodturning awareness and furthering the AAW mission. If we get a bunch of controversy around it then it will go away. I enjoyed seeing the different pieces being submitted. And I stand behind Trent Bosch's decisions since he is a seasoned professional in the field. It isn't easy to get judges for these activities.
 
congratulations to the winners. some great work shown, i'm glad i was able to participate. looking forward to the winners write up.

phillip
 
Congrats to the winners. Well done.

There ain't no easy way to say this so I'll just blurt it out

Based on the winning goblets, the judge's comments and the comments of others who also picked the same winners, I have to wonder if the AAW is for me?

I like to turn bowls. I like traditional, for lack of a better word, bowls. I like pieces that show off the natural beauty of the wood. I like bowls that someone would actually use. Maybe this makes me a hack. Well then I'm a hack, but I prefer a well made, well proportioned piece with just the right design elements over something with spikes glued on it and calling it art.

I know there is a place for the artsy-artsy stuff. And I'm sure it is very good but I just don't get it. But that's what it seems to take to get recognition by the AAW. From the judges comments it sounds like he never even considered the tradition goblets entered.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the AAW change. I just wonder if it is the organization for me.

Mike
 
Here are the results of the last contest:
here

Just because a single event doesn't go the way some people expect it is probably not a good reason to change direction.

Have you looked at the last 2 or 3 journals? While they certainly contain some articles that can be labeled "artsy" they also contain a large number of articles for traditional turning. I especially liked seeing Dave Lancaster's article 2 or 3 issues ago about how he makes 1,000 bowls a year. Nothing artsy about that, and he makes some fine bowls that last a lifetime. I learned something from the article and enjoyed seeing him at the 2005 symposium as well. (and he probably doesn't even know who I am!)

The AAW is for the whole range of people who like woodturning. Some are beginners. Some are experts. And there are plenty in the middle. There are a variety of pieces that get created. I find the whole of the AAW to be an interesting place to spend time, from the AW Journal, to the annual symposium, to the forum.

The AAW does change, but not drastically. Compare the rules for the 2005 exhibition to the rules for 2006. There is some change there and it was based on member feedback. The symposiums change a little bit each year too. Now that I'm on the conference committee, we are considering what went well last year and what can be improved. We don't have infinite resources to spend but we want things to be good for all our members. Overall, I think the AAW measures up pretty well considering the fact that it is primarily a volunteer organization.
 
Congrats to winners

Congratulations to all the winners. I think all three were great choices and all very differant each in there own way. The antler goblet is a really neat idea.
I do have to say tho without taking anything away from any of the winners or other contestants(all really nice work) I do have to in some ways agree with Jim Ketron. If I had known that "out of the box" or "non traditional" were going to be something to be favorably judged on I would have entered a goblet quite differant than the one I entered.
This was the first contest I entered and I am thrilled that the likes of Trent Bosch looked over my piece even if it wasn't picked as a winner. I am not discouraged and will be entering more contests.

Mike S.
 
My warmest congratulation to the winners and I must say to Trent Bosh as well.
It is, I guess, thanks to those who want to spin the turning a little further that woodturning is an art recognised as such and not only a mean to produce conventional objects.
CONGRATULATION, too, to all participant. I’ve seen all the pieces and whatever the result of the contest is, I’m am convinced that the pleasure of turning mixed with the adrenaline of the contest made it, for each of them, a wonderful moment to remember.
 
Thank You

Though it is a bit late (I just got power back yesterday after Hurricane Wilma) I'd like to say how pleased and honored I am to have won this contest. To have my work judged and found worthy in such a field and by such a judge is very exciting. I'd like to thank everyone for their kind words. The reception this piece has received provides great incentive to continue to pursue my artistic endeavors.
By the way, Mort, this piece has already been sold so maybe the mantra doesn't always hold.
Brian Rosencrantz
 
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