Respirator discussion

[Rachel Aberle]

I’m new to wood turning but nothing wood working. I’ve currently use a respirator with P100 filter and when sanding I hook my orbital sander up to dust vac hose (with vac bag in place) to keep dust down.

I am seeing so much information on PPE with turning. I was considering keeping with respirator and adding of course the face shield and when sanding incorporate wet sanding along with dust collection (dust deputy and sho vac).

I was discussing with another wood turner who said I really needed a respirator with air flowing through it…ie JSP brand or something similar. I’m not opposed to investing down the road an Versaflow system but in the meantime am I killing my lungs with my current set up?

 

[Doug Freeman]

No your current setup is fine from a filtering perspective. The pumped air systems are more about comfort, some practicality, fogging of glasses, and easier to breathe for those with respiratory issues . I have used both. Respirators under face shields is problematic - fogging, not enough room for filters, straps for shield and respirator. I use a Versaflow now. I dont believe I’m any more protected, but I’m a heck of a lot more comfortable, which means I’m far more likely to use it.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I agree the PAPR's are more comfortble particularly with glasses or beards, but a lot more expensive. And P100 is P100 regardless of the filter type.

What you are going to find is that it is difficult to collect dust at the lathe as compared to a ROS.

 

[Dave Landers]

I’m a heck of a lot more comfortable, which means I’m far more likely to use it.

Yeah, that's a big consideration (for me). I've had a plain respirator for a long time, but rarely used it because it was inconvenient and fogged up my glasses etc. Last year, I finally bought a PAPR and I now have a pretty good habit of wearing it - which means I also means I normally have a face shield on, too (I used to skip the face shield too often due to convenience). I noticed the difference the first time I used it. Should have got one years ago.

I got the CleanAir from Peke Safety. It's basically the same as wearing a Bionic face shield with a small fanny-pack (it is actually the same headset as the Bionic, with air hose and chin seal added). So I can replace the face shield plastic with the same ones for my Bionic. Battery last me several turning sessions without recharging. Totally happy with it, well worth the $750 or so I paid.

 

[Daniel Henry]

In the industrial world PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) is to be considered the last line of defense or even a last resort. Rather than protect the person from a recognized hazard, the hazard should be eliminated. In many instances total elimination is not a viable option therefore you have PPE's should as face shields, safety glasses, respirators', and such. A half face or APR should not be used with any facial hair except maybe a small well trimmed mustache. The technical writings of many Full Face or PAPR's will indicated not suitable for facial hair application. The Bionic style is somewhat like a SCBA. This type should somewhat cause or create positive pressure inside the mask or hood which should hopefully prevent outside contaminates from entering. Whatever the style respirator worn, the best protection from air particles is using a filter that is HEPA rated.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

No your current setup is fine from a filtering perspective. The pumped air systems are more about comfort, some practicality, fogging of glasses, and easier to breathe for those with respiratory issues . I have used both. Respirators under face shields is problematic - fogging, not enough room for filters, straps for shield and respirator. I use a Versaflow now. I dont believe I’m any more protected, but I’m a heck of a lot more comfortable, which means I’m far more likely to use it.

Thanks Doug good point on comforts.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

In the industrial world PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) is to be considered the last line of defense or even a last resort. Rather than protect the person from a recognized hazard, the hazard should be eliminated. In many instances total elimination is not a viable option therefore you have PPE's should as face shields, safety glasses, respirators', and such. A half face or APR should not be used with any facial hair except maybe a small well trimmed mustache. The technical writings of many Full Face or PAPR's will indicated not suitable for facial hair application. The Bionic style is somewhat like a SCBA. This type should somewhat cause or create positive pressure inside the mask or hood which should hopefully prevent outside contaminates from entering. Whatever the style respirator worn, the best protection from air particles is using a filter that is HEPA rated.

Thanks Daniel. I think this is one thing to keep remember on cutting down first and foremost from the source and then using PPE for any left over.

 

[Dan Stromberg]

I always enjoy reading discussions like these every time they come up. For whatever reason, I've never been particularly bothered by the basic unpowered respirator. So I've never been clear on if the upgrade to powered is buying additional safety (which would be worth it to me) or just comfort (which might not be.) The positive pressure argument is a good one in favor of additional safety, but I know that then you also get into the "properly fitted" discussion as well.

Rachel, thanks for posting. Good discussion topic, IMHO. It's easy to get buried in the details of all of the different respirator types.

 

[Doug Freeman]

In the industrial world PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) is to be considered the last line of defense or even a last resort. Rather than protect the person from a recognized hazard, the hazard should be eliminated.

Good luck eliminating all dust in a turning/sanding environment in the shops of most all tuners. I spent 35 years engineering in the industrial world. While it can be done it is cost prohibitive in a number of ways. My choice was to look at dust collection more from a housekeeping perspective and protect my lungs with ppe. Remember, the dangerous stuff is not the dust you see in task lights and such, its the dust you can’t see.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

I always enjoy reading discussions like these every time they come up. For whatever reason, I've never been particularly bothered by the basic unpowered respirator. So I've never been clear on if the upgrade to powered is buying additional safety (which would be worth it to me) or just comfort (which might not be.) The positive pressure argument is a good one in favor of additional safety, but I know that then you also get into the "properly fitted" discussion as well.

Rachel, thanks for posting. Good discussion topic, IMHO. It's easy to get buried in the details of all of the different respirator types.

I do too. It’s can be overwhelming with the information out there.

 

[Ric Williams]

From my experience, it's more cost effective in the long run to go straight to something like the Versaflo system of your choosing, or other equivalent industrial grade PAPR system, if you can. I tried the intermediate step of one of the self contained PAPR cap mounted units, and there's quite a noticeable difference in solid construction and HEPA, or better, filtering with the quality industrial grade systems. I'm told that it's important to be able to see and breathe, so protecting that stuff is worth the higher price range.

 

[Brian Deakin]

I have a 2 pronged approach to sanding

I wear a Trend Airshield respirator and additional measure I open my garage doors place a large fan which is mounted on a stand directly in line with the lathe and blow the sanding dust onto the drive

 

[Doug Freeman]

@Rachel Aberle you dont mention finishing, but there are organic vapor filters available for the Versaflow, which I use when spray finishing or other times when needed for nasty fumes. I dont know if other papr units have them available.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

I have a 2 pronged approach to sanding

I wear a Trend Airshield respirator and additional measure I open my garage doors place a large fan which is mounted on a stand directly in line with the lathe and blow the sanding dust onto the drive

saves some garage clean up!

 

[Rachel Aberle]

From my experience, it's more cost effective in the long run to go straight to something like the Versaflo system of your choosing, or other equivalent industrial grade PAPR system, if you can. I tried the intermediate step of one of the self contained PAPR cap mounted units, and there's quite a noticeable difference in solid construction and HEPA, or better, filtering with the quality industrial grade systems. I'm told that it's important to be able to see and breathe, so protecting that stuff is worth the higher price range.

Intermediate, like the JSP brand?

 

[Rachel Aberle]

Yeah, that's a big consideration (for me). I've had a plain respirator for a long time, but rarely used it because it was inconvenient and fogged up my glasses etc. Last year, I finally bought a PAPR and I now have a pretty good habit of wearing it - which means I also means I normally have a face shield on, too (I used to skip the face shield too often due to convenience). I noticed the difference the first time I used it. Should have got one years ago.

I got the CleanAir from Peke Safety. It's basically the same as wearing a Bionic face shield with a small fanny-pack (it is actually the same headset as the Bionic, with air hose and chin seal added). So I can replace the face shield plastic with the same ones for my Bionic. Battery last me several turning sessions without recharging. Totally happy with it, well worth the $750 or so I paid.

Never heard of this one, will check it out, thank you Dave.

 

[David Bolson]

Here’s another one to check out. Optrel Clearmaxx E3000X. I don’t have experience with other PAPR systems so I can’t do a usage comparison, but the specs compare favorably with systems like Versaflo. I feel that it works well and I have no complaints. Although the price is high, I bought mine “open box” on EBay for about $500. The same seller seems to have lots of these “open box” and is still selling on EBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/203338588761?hash=item2f57eca259:g:looAAOSwLp1gbK-9

 

[Rachel Aberle]

Here’s another one to check out. Optrel Clearmaxx E3000X. I don’t have experience with other PAPR systems so I can’t do a usage comparison, but the specs compare favorably with systems like Versaflo. I feel that it works well and I have no complaints. Although the price is high, I bought mine “open box” on EBay for about $500. The same seller seems to have lots of these “open box” and is still selling on EBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/203338588761?hash=item2f57eca259:g:looAAOSwLp1gbK-9

Thank you, will check that out as well.

From what I'm gathering the PAPR systems is essentially giving you fresh air to breath is that correct? My 1/2 face respirator I where diligently and get a solid seal. So eventually upgrading would possibly be more a comfort factor it appears?

 

[Daniel Henry]

PAPR should offer the wearer/user a much greater protection factor than a half-face APR.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

PAPR should offer the wearer/user a much greater protection factor than a half-face APR.

Could you explain your thinking a little bit? If both the half mask and the PAPR are rated at P100 they should provide the same respiratory protection if worn properly.

 

[Steven Forrest]

I just posted into a related thread about the Versaflow. Thought it might be useful here too (mostly copied and pasted):
With a full beard, Iwas unsatisfied by the various half mask filters, good though they may be (Ellipse, Trend, etc.), because you just can't get a seal. Neck/shoulder issues argued against something with all the goodies in the hat itself (Trend Airshield, Peke, etc.) Full PAPR systems are super expensive. What to do? I use a basic Versaflow helmet (impact rated, with elastic shroud for PAPR) linked up via the expensive proprietary hose to a cheap, generic CPAP hose, to PVC. Pvc runs through a wall to the other half of the garage, which has fresh air/no dust. In line fan takes air from the clean side, blows it through PVC, CPAP, and out the Versaflow. No fogging, no dust, quiet, and the helmet, although not feather light, is well balanced, and it has been easier on my neck than even the Bionic was. Total cost was about $400 or so a few years ago - helmet, fan, and specialized tubing were most of it. The rest was generic/off the shelf. No expensive filters to replace, no expensive batteries to charge. I've been very satisfied. The only drawback is that, unlike the self contained PAPR, I am tethered, and have to spin around sometimes to not get tangled up if I'm ranging beyond the lathe, but it's no big deal. Tubing hangs behind me, looped with a belt - no safety issue as far as tangling up in the lathe. There were a couple of older threads that go into great detail around this - you could search for them if interested.

 

[Daniel Henry]

Rather than me trying to write in a technical fashion, may I please suggest a "googling" of the term PAPR or APR. Various manufactures provide the specifications for both appliances. Aside from the better fitment and ease of breathing the PAPR offers, the PAPR offers a Protection Factor or PF that is about 20 times that of the APR.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

I did a little more research today. I think individual factors also to be considered. Will you be using toxic or oil based finishes on your product, etc. This article indicated recommended respirators based on the type of work you are doing. Reeling back to what are you actually needing to filter.

I am okay going to a PAPR system down the road but am also taking steps to reduce dust like wet sanding. I’ve learned a lot here and find the information valuable to all who posted.

https://www.ihsa.ca/rtf/health_safety_manual/pdfs/equipment/Respiratory_Protection.pdf

 

[Ric Williams]

Intermediate, like the JSP brand?

Yep. It works fine for what it is, but the filtration is better on the industrial level of PAPR systems, as well it should be at that price range. As always, ya gotta pay for quality.