Ray Key modified spindle gouge

[cwearing]

What is the best attack to sharpen the Ray Key (4" flute) spindle gouge without destroying the bevel angle(s)
😕

 

[Ian Robertson]

Are you freehand or jig sharpening? If so, what jig?

 

[Clifton C]

C,
I’ve been in Rays class a few times at Arrowmont. As you can guess, he sharpens freehand with just his fingers supporting the tool. Me, I use the platform for the nose angle as if sharpening a detail gouge and then with the flute to the right (3 O’clock) and the handle slightly to the right, as in not directly inline with the wheel, ride the tool up the wheel to grind the right side flute about 1 ¾ to 2 inches back. Writing this makes me wish I had paid more attention in English Composition class…Technically challenged on posting pics, maybe I’ll try again, as they are worth at least a thousand words…
c

 

[Clifton C]

Oops

Ok, memory was a little off. When sharpening to the right the handle is a bit farther out to then what I first posted. I doubt there is a jig for this grind, but never say never...So the first pic is sharpening the nose, then swinging the handle and rotating (double action) to the left, then, swinging and rotating to the right and pushing the right hand edge of the flute up the wheel.
PS. the cord wrapped next to the wheel is because I just came back from a demo.
c

 

[Sam Gubler]

Clifton's free hand method is the best way I've found to sharpen this tool. I've tried with a jig but you can't get the right rotation to sharpen the long wing.

 

[Odie]

Ray Key Spindle Gouge
The 3/8" modified spindle gouges make internal hollowing easy due to the short, stubby 60-62 degree angle. Used correctly, the bevel rubs with a slicing cut action and leaves a very clean tool finish with no scraping required.

This is the information given about the intended use of the Ray Key spindle gouge. I have one of these gouges and except for an experimental trial use, have never used it again. Maybe I'm just not giving it a fair chance to prove itself useful.

Let me see if I'm understanding things correctly: It's for internal hollowing, right? What kind of turnings is it intended for? Bowls? Hollow forms? Boxes?

Since that long sharpened edge is on the right side of the flute, can I assume the intent is to cut from left to right internally? Maybe I'm just not seeing things right, but I just can't get a good mental picture of how that long sharpened edge can be useful when hollowing internally from the rim to center. I just don't "get" it!

Is the purpose basically to remove wood......or to produce a finished surface?

I tried to find a video demonstration online of the Key gouge, but came up empty handed......anyone got a link?

ooc

 

[MichaelMouse]

Never seen one prior to this thread, but I suppose I've been using something similar for years - pointy gouge. It's used for steep sided long grain hollowing. I've shown these pictures a few times here and elsewhere, and the form of the shaving tells the story better than words.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/a63b77ab.jpg

The pointy grind keeps the nose from skating as it's plunged into the end grain. Initially it shaves from either side, but when rotated into the side grind it can be swept in toward center or out toward the rim as it is plunged or drawn. In use, alternate sweeps produce extremely rapid hollowing, though the bottom must be finished with a ring, fingernail gouge or scraper. Smooth shavings with feathered sides give a ready-to-sand side.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/725a28f2.jpg

I also use the pointy design on one of my 1/4 gouges for ornament hollowing, since it clears the trash down the flute instead of mushing and jamming inside. Its own spoon, which is what I used to use to clear the insides before I got air.

Advantage of leaving the nose fingernailed would be a gouge that bottomed well, though I would definitely bore a hole to start rather than grab the nose. I just use one of my fingernailed gouges or a termite, normally.

 

[Clifton C]

Ray Key spindle gouge

Odie,
Ray uses this tool for all three, but I use it mostly for boxes.
The long sharpened edge is not used inside, only outside.
Hollowing is done end grain style, centre to rim.
This tool has at least three cuts that make it useful for a box maker.
First is to drill into end grain. Make divot, hold tool level, and push in.
Second is to hollow. Normal end grain hollowing, from the centre out, flute about 10:30.
Short bevel makes going across the bottom more of a bevel rubbing cut.
And third is outside the box as a planing cut left to right. With handle to the right, tip to the left, flute to the right (about 3 O’clock)
the long grind on the right side of the gouge is used like a skew.
Cutting left to right seems like the wrong direction as you would be pushing the top off the box and you would be right,
but that’s how Ray does it. (light cuts).
So, dust it off, give it another chance, it’s lonely…
I know I need to mow the lawn, but I think making a little box would get me motivated…

c

 

[Odie]

Odie,
Ray uses this tool for all three, but I use it mostly for boxes.
The long sharpened edge is not used inside, only outside.
Hollowing is done end grain style, centre to rim.
This tool has at least three cuts that make it useful for a box maker.
First is to drill into end grain. Make divot, hold tool level, and push in.
Second is to hollow. Normal end grain hollowing, from the centre out, flute about 10:30.
Short bevel makes going across the bottom more of a bevel rubbing cut.
And third is outside the box as a planing cut left to right. With handle to the right, tip to the left, flute to the right (about 3 O’clock)
the long grind on the right side of the gouge is used like a skew.
Cutting left to right seems like the wrong direction as you would be pushing the top off the box and you would be right,
but that’s how Ray does it. (light cuts).
So, dust it off, give it another chance, it’s lonely…
I know I need to mow the lawn, but I think making a little box would get me motivated…

c

Howdy Cliff........yeah, I should give the Ray Key gouge some more try, I guess. I don't do very many boxes.....my main push is bowls. It's possible I could find some use for it on the exterior of bowls, left to right, as you say.......but, I'm not finding standard gouge and shear scraping techniques to be lacking in my purpose.

I probably wouldn't buy this tool, knowing what I know about it right now.......but, I do have it, so there's not a good reason to not do a little "playing" with it. Who knows.......I might discover something new! 😀

Thanks.......

ooc

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Default Oops



Ok, memory was a little off. When sharpening to the right the handle is a bit farther out to then what I first posted. I doubt there is a jig for this grind, but never say never...So the first pic is sharpening the nose, then swinging the handle and rotating (double action) to the left, then, swinging and rotating to the right and pushing the right hand edge of the flute up the wheel.
PS. the cord wrapped next to the wheel is because I just came back from a demo.
c


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looks very simial to sb's 40/40 grind or is it 45/45