Questions for Traveling Demonstrators

[Bill Grumbine]

Greetings all

I am finding myself in the position of doing more and more traveling for demonstrations, and I have some questions I would like to ask of those of you who have experience with this sort of thing. I am posting here publicly for the purpose of reaching as many people as possible, but I think it would be more appropriate to discuss this off line. If you are a traveling demonstrator and would not mind talking with me about your experiences, please email me at bill@wonderfulwood.com.

Thanks.

Bill

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Thank everyone for the responses I have been getting! Some have been wondering why I asked for private communication. I am more interested in the traveling and business aspect of this than the turning, although I am always happy for advice there too, and I thought it would be more appropriate to discuss these subjects off line. I will be glad to post some of my findings once I have gotten back to all who have written me so far.

Thanks again, and for all who have written, I will be sure to respond later on today.

Bill

 

[C Edward Moore]

Hi Bill,

As a Program Director for a club, I would appreciate learning about the business side of things. And I think that there are plenty of people who do not understand that when one travels for a day, does an all-day demo and returns home the next day, the demonstrator has three days PLUS PREP TIME invested in the venture. They deserve fair compensation for their time. For that reason, I take the demo fee plus the travel costs and look at that total. If the total seems about right, then it's a "go", if it is out of line, then I duck the situation. I choose not to ask a demonstrator to adjust their fee if I think it is a little "ambitious".

Where I think a demonstrator must be careful is when more than one club and demo is involved. I hosted a touring demonstrator in my home and since he was going to be there anyway, I arranged a workshop in my shop as a kindness to him and to allow him to pick up a day's pay. Suddenly I found myself being assessed travel fees, which I felt were not part of the picture since he was being paid by another club for his demo and was already staying in my home anyway, plus I didn't take a penny for the use of my shop and the wood I supplied. We got things worked out by increasing the cost to attend a little and picking up a couple extra people. The second situation that must be avoided is "double-dipping", where a demonstrator receives full travel expenses from two clubs for back-to-back demos that are not very far apart. I know of a couple of name demonstrators who have tarnished their reputations by doing this.

And since the Smith Mountain Lake Woodturners are extremely happy to be hosting Bill Grumbine on Saturday, May 13, let me point out that none of the negatives mentioned here apply to Bill, which is why I felt free to write what I did. If you are interested in attending Bill's demo I am sure that I can find a place with a club member for you to stay over on Friday evening, to allow you to attend the demo Saturday. The fee for attending is very modest. If you can't attend and feel a need to send the money anyway, please contact me privately.

 

[n7bsn]

Ed
The "double dipping" you refer to is common is the "guest lecture" circuit. Far too many "pros" charge 3 days for each group they lecture too. So, if they get things lined up, they can get 9 days pay for 5 days away.
The way they figure it, it makes up for the prep-work and weeks without any appointments.
The way I figure it, is I only get paid for work I do, not for days I don't

TTFN
Ralph

 

[Steve Worcester]

Doing a bit of travleing and demoing myself, when I quote a price, it is usually a time and travel. X$/Day plus travel$, all known numbers up front.

If you agree to one price, why pay another? It's business.

If the demonstrator gets other gigs while he is there, then fine. I don't agree with double dipping as common practice in this circuit though.

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi guys

This double dipping is exactly what I am trying to avoid. I don't mind asking what I think I am worth, but I think it is disingenuous to charge someone for something, and then charge someone else for the very same thing - i.e. charge travel for 200 miles if only 100 miles is covered. On the other hand, I am working on an equitable solution if Club A pays for 400 miles of travel, and then Club B 100 miles away from A signs on, how are the costs then distributed? These are the things I am asking experienced travelers about.

Bill

 

[C Edward Moore]

Hi Bill,

Let's suppose that Club A and Club B have approximately the same resources, are 100 miles apart, Club A is 200 miles from you and Club B is 250 miles from you. The round trip becomes 200 + 100 + 250 = 550 miles and you wish to distribute them equitably. My approach would be to assess Club A for 200 plus one-half the distance between A and B. So Club A would pay for 200 + 50 = 250 miles. Then Club B would pay for 50 + 250 = 300 miles. And I would send a joint e-mail to both so that each sees the same breakdown and no confusion should result.

Now consider the same positions but Club B has very limited resources. I would approach Club A privately, explain the situation and ask if they would consider paying for 300 miles instead of 400 miles and tell them that Club B will pay for 250 and that is all they can afford. As a Program Director I would be happy to save that 100 miles if I was club A. If agreed, I would send a joint e-mail to the clubs saying that Club A's travel expenses are 300 x cost per mile and Club B's expenses are 250 x cost per mile.

Here's the sticky wicket. Suppose Club B is 500 miles beyond Club A and 600 from your home. Having agreed to 400 miles for Club A, I feel that they can be assessed no more than for 400 miles. Then Club B must be told that they will be assessed for 300 plus 600 = 900 miles, which is better than the 1200 mile round trip.

Basically, sunshine is your best friend here. If each club involved sees the breakdown and is told the rationale for it, then the perception of double dipping can be avoided.

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Hi guys

This double dipping is exactly what I am trying to avoid. I don't mind asking what I think I am worth, but I think it is disingenuous to charge someone for something, and then charge someone else for the very same thing - i.e. charge travel for 200 miles if only 100 miles is covered. On the other hand, I am working on an equitable solution if Club A pays for 400 miles of travel, and then Club B 100 miles away from A signs on, how are the costs then distributed? These are the things I am asking experienced travelers about.

Bill

Bill,

I don't know if this applies here or not but I'm going to mention it. In the embroidery business good technicians are hard to find to keep machines in tip top shape. Travel expenses were always from their door to yours and back and were quite expensive(and it didn't make any difference if he had a call another 30 miles up the road from you, both customers paid the full travel cost (Ye olde double dipping)) . A few years ago one of the best techs in the country came up with what he calls service sweeps. He'll advertise that he'll be in going from Alabama to say Michigan. If you lie along that route you make an appointment and all his travel costs are divided equally among the appointments on that trip. What used to cost 1200 to 1500 bucks for a service call (plus parts) is now in the $400 - 550 range.
As has been said when everyone knows what's going on in travel expenses we should be savy enough to know it's our obligation to pay.
BTW the service sweep guy has more business than he can handle.

Stoppy