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Question for those who use Tormek

M

Mike Novak

Joined
May 30, 2022
Messages
308
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309
Location
Belchertown, MA
Hi.

I have been using a Tormek clone (Wen) with Tormek jigs to sharpen my tools. The stone it came with doesn’t work with the grader, so I only have one grit. The grader just glazes the stone so it doesn’t cut. It’s too slow for shaping, and now I’m starting to realize it’s a little too coarse for a really sharp edge. I need to do something, but not sure what.

I like that the Wen doesn’t create dust and is very forgiving with the jigs. It’s not so great for platform grinding.

Cold you comment on these options I’m considering?

1) get the original or black Tormek stone, $250-$300
2) get 2 Tormek diamond stones, one for shaping and one for sharpening $700
2) get an 8” slow speed grinder for shaping using the Tormek base and jigs, and a Tormek diamond stone for sharpening. $500
3) retire the Wen, get the 8” slow speed with 2 CBN wheels, use the Tormek jigs with it. $500
4) start fresh with a slow speed grinder, CBN and Wolverine setup, which seems to be the standard for woodturning. $800-900

what would you do?
 
Definitely get the slow speed grinder with the CBN wheels and Wolverine setup. I had a Tormek and experienced the same problems you have encountered before I switched to the CBN setup. It does require some skill to sharpen but once you get it it is quite easy. Two things...

1. You need to get the Raptor setup tools from Craft Supplies USA. They are invaluable for being consistent. I did not start out with them and unfortunately changed the grind every time I sharpened.

2. Purchase a fine and course grit CBN wheel. You need to have the ability to maintain an edge, and reshape an edge. 120 or 180 on the low end and 320 on the high end.

Hope this provides some guidance.
 
Mike,

I recommend you look at 3 options.
  • For shaping the tool (this is something that you do very, very rarely), use the high speed grinder with a very friable grindstone. There is a Tormek accessory (BGM-100) which allows for the easy use of the Tormek jigs on that grinder. This is quite good (and not too expensive). This is not a real issue for HSS.
  • For sharpening the tools, I find that I really only use the fine diamond grinding wheel (DF-250).
  • For honing the tools, I like to use the Tormek composite honing wheel.
Hope this helps.
 
I use a Grizzly clone for gouges only. Use an 8” slow speed grinder for shaping, 46gr, with the bgm-100 tool bar. Other wheel is 80gr with a platform, sharpen scrapers, skews etc with it,, and hone those edges.

I have a Grizzly and a tormek grading stone. Both work to change the surface, but the tormek stone is finer on both sides and works better. The wheel is wet and water is in the tray when grading, correct?

Recommend the same as I use, of course, as it works very well. I dont see a need for diamond or other wheels on the griz. Currently using my 2nd griz stone wheel, and will replace it with a Wen wheel when too small - I may find it doesnt grade well with a stone, will just have to try it.

I have used the wolverine/varigrind system, and much prefer the bowl gouge grinds I get with the tormek jig.
 
I did try the original grey wheels on the Tormek, and when trying to grade the wheel, it always seemed like a spot or 3 would not take the grading and that meant that I would still have the original grind. Best bet for me is the diamond wheels. You could get away with only one, and I would opt for maybe 600 grit. The Tormek and clones are not good for reshaping tools. I use a 36 grit belt sander if I want to change some thing, and even a cut off tool for some scrapers. For turning, I consider a slow speed grinder essential, as well as the CBN wheels. Still not a good tool for reshaping your HSS tools. If I wanted to shape tools, well, Dave Schweitzer had a 10 inch Jet high speed grinder with a 60 grit wheel on it. For general use, I consider a 180 CBN and a 600 CBN wheels would do all the sharpening you need, and that includes the skew. The final step with the skew is to strop it.

I don't use jigs to sharpen, and I know that is not for every one. If you turn a lot, it is simple to pick up. I have a Wolverine set up that I have never used, but got it in case I get guests.

robo hippy
 
Buy a CBN for your Wen. I put a 1,200 grit on my Jet and I'm thrilled with the way it sharpens planer blades. (Yes I know those aren't turning tools) No water sloshing about too,
 
I have a Tormek with 2 diamond wheels. One, coarse, other fine. I do have the original/stone but don't use it any longer. For minor reshaping, I use the coarse and the fine for touch-ups. I use Tormek's jigs every time, my arty-rightus can't hold the tool steady enough to not bugger up the edge (yup, arty makes turning a challenge sometimes but it is what it is). I have a high speed 10", if I need to re-shape or change shapes, I use it but must be careful. It will make steel hot quick if I get heavy handed. About the only thing I use the leather wheel for is polishing the skew. I can't see any difference straight off the fine wheel or polishing the bowl gouges, cuts the same and needs re-sharpened the same amount of time, IMHO. YMMV
What you do in the end is up to you and your pocket. I tell folks to buy/cry once and done (learned from other folks).
 
Seems like a pretty strong consensus that I need to get an 8” grinder for shaping. I’ll get that set up and use it with my Tormek jigs, and homemade BGM-100. Once I try that I’ll decide if I go diamond on tormek or CBN on 8” grinder.

Woodcraft has the 1/2 hp 8” slow speed Rikon on sale for $149. I will probably go with that one.

I appreciate all the input!
 
Mike Novak said:
Woodcraft has the 1/2 hp 8” slow speed Rikon on sale for $149. I will probably go with that one.
Click to expand...

That machine is a good start
Consider Adding a woulverine & varigrind from ONEWAY. You will also need a wheel dresser I like the Diamond Jim from Packard

I use the wheel dresser starting at a corner with the dresser at about 45 degrees. Easy to get the corner edge true with a light touch. Then work the tool across the face in lots of steps turning the dresser a little toward 90 and working from the last trued spot a little into the untrued part. After 5-10 passes the dresser will be at 90 and the face of the wheel smooth true and in round.
Lots of folks try going straight at the wheel and end up bouncing and smoothing an out of round wheel


IMG_0552.jpeg. IMG_0553.jpeg. IMG_0556.jpeg
 
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I have used a Tormek to sharpen my turning gouges and other turning tools but, since I mostly use gouges for turning bowls, I found that upgrading my Tormek wheel to a 600 grit diamond wheel allowed me to sharpen both my HSS gouges and at least my round carbide tools because the Tormek jig came with an attachment for sharpening round carbide cutters (like Easy Wood). I haven't used my Tormek for sharpening regular wood chisels or plane blades as I've gone to hand sharpening those with various stones and a hand sharpening jig.

I found that, after several years of turning, the Tormek doesn't serve all my turning tool sharpening needs either. About a year ago I bougt a Rikon slow speed grinder with 2 - 8" CBN wheels and have founde that ,between the the Rikon and my Tormek, I now can sharpen everything.

My advice, if you can afford it, is to get a 600 grit diamond wheel for your Wen (Tormek diamond wheels are excellent but there are others I believe) and get a separate 8" slow speed grinder with whatever grit CBN wheels seem to suit your needs.

Wood Turners Wonders sells diamond wheels (including Tormek size wheels) as well as a selection of CBN wheels of varying types. They also had a deal where you could pick the 8" grinder you want and the wheels to go with it depending on your needs. If you email them indicating your uses and what you already have, they may be able to suggest a possible conficuration of grinder and wheels that suits your needs.
 
The 1/2 hp Rikon grinder is too underpowered for my tastes, plus there is a very long spin down time on it. I got the 1 hp model, and it seems that they both go on sale at the same time. Personally, if you can afford one or find a good deal on one, a Baldor grinder is far better. It comes up to full speed in the same time as the 1 hp Rikon, but slows down to zero in far less time. I have the steel D Way wheels on my grinders, and the 1/2 hp Rikon won't handle those.

robo hippy
 
Not a big deal unless you’re the impatient sort or do heavy duty grinding. For sharpening gouges and other turning tools it’s not a problem. Even for reshaping the grind on HSS it’s more than adequate.
 
I have the 1/2 HP Rikon. I guess I've never understood the power up/down criticism of the 1/2 HP model. To me, it's not something I even notice. When I need to use it, I turn it on, wait 5-10 seconds, then position my tool and sharpen. It takes longer to stop once turned off but, at that point, I'm done with it and moving on to something else, so I can't tell you how long it takes to stop because I'm not paying any attention to it. If you are doing heavy duty grinding, the 3/4 HP would make more sense, but for sharpening gouges, scrapers, and other woodworking tools, 1/2 HP is more than enough.
 
Richard Coers said:
There were complaints about slow spin up on 1/2hp grinders with 2 CBN wheels.
Click to expand...

I'm suspicious about the hp ratings of Rikon motors. Anybody know the amperage draw of these? 3rd world motor manufacturers are notorious for over rating their motors.

There's a human trait that most of us have that's reflected in recommendations of grinding equipment here. When buying tools we know nothing about we buy on price. When we're knowledgeable we buy on quality.
 
The Rikon 1/2 HP grinder was available at a good price and all reviews I saw indicated that the only drawbacks with CBN wheels was a slight wait to get the wheels up to speed and stopping time. The wait at startup is insignificant and the slowdown isn’t a problem for since I’m done with my task at that point. If it works for its intended purpose then HP or amps really isn’t a concern for me.
 
I brought home the Rikon 1/2 hp grinder yesterday. It’s rated at 3 amps. I have an older 1/2 hp motor that’s rated at 4 so I’m guessing that Rikon is overstating a bit. A 1/2 hp Baldor is 10x the price!

That said, it looks like a good unit. Quiet and smooth. It takes about 3 sec to spin up with the stock wheels. Even at 10 seconds it should be ok for me. Takes me that long to put the gouge in the jig.

I appreciate all the input. I’m going to use it for a while with stock wheels before I decide which CBN or diamond to get.
 
Randy Heinemann said:
The Rikon 1/2 HP grinder was available at a good price and all reviews I saw indicated that the only drawbacks with CBN wheels was a slight wait to get the wheels up to speed and stopping time. The wait at startup is insignificant and the slowdown isn’t a problem for since I’m done with my task at that point. If it works for its intended purpose then HP or amps really isn’t a concern for me.
Click to expand...


A good reason to be concerned about the hp rating is because they say that's what it is. If it doesn't have the amp draw of a true 1/2 hp it shouldn't be represented that way. I don't know for sure if the Rikon grinders exaggerate their hp as many 3rd world makers do. I do know my two older American made grinders are up to speed before you can get your hand away from the switch and their motor rating labels give an amp draw rating matching to their hp.

I notice one seller of the CBN plated wheels recommends buying the low speed Rikon because the higher speed models tend to vibrate. That doesn't speak well about the grinders.

The whole deal with low quality 3rd world tools have the effect of "dumbing down" the buying public. Dealers more or less have to sell the junk because the public buys on price more than quality. This harms the quality manufacturers so quality then becomes harder to find and more expensive.

When I see recommendations of Rikon plus plated CBN I wonder if those individuals have ever used a quality bench grinder with a dressed proper grade and name brand aluminum oxide composite wheel. Doug Thompson is shown in a video sharpening on an aluminum oxide wheel. It's worth noting plated wheels are very seldom if ever used in production grinding, they're more of a gimmick.
 
From WoodturnersWonders I got a 800 grit 10" wheel for my Tormek and it now works so much better. I also got at the same time a 1hp 8" Rikon slow speed grinder with 80 & 350 CBN wheels. I use my Tormek jigs on the Rikon as I am used to them.

on the Rikon - bowl gouges, scrapers, skews, roughing gouges - big stuff
on the Tormek - small carving tools, knives, drill bits

I'd keep your Wen as it's already paid for & upgrade it to a CBN wheel - sometimes on small stuff the Rikon just goes way to fast
 
I was kinda in your boat. I had a tormek but found it messy and a bit inconvenient.

I now use a slow speed grinder with 2 different CBN wheels and the wolverine system.

I sold the tormek to offset cost of CBN wheels.

I have not looked back.
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
A good reason to be concerned about the hp rating is because they say that's what it is. If it doesn't have the amp draw of a true 1/2 hp it shouldn't be represented that way. I don't know for sure if the Rikon grinders exaggerate their hp as many 3rd world makers do. I do know my two older American made grinders are up to speed before you can get your hand away from the switch and their motor rating labels give an amp draw rating matching to their hp.

I notice one seller of the CBN plated wheels recommends buying the low speed Rikon because the higher speed models tend to vibrate. That doesn't speak well about the grinders.

The whole deal with low quality 3rd world tools have the effect of "dumbing down" the buying public. Dealers more or less have to sell the junk because the public buys on price more than quality. This harms the quality manufacturers so quality then becomes harder to find and more expensive.

When I see recommendations of Rikon plus plated CBN I wonder if those individuals have ever used a quality bench grinder with a dressed proper grade and name brand aluminum oxide composite wheel. Doug Thompson is shown in a video sharpening on an aluminum oxide wheel. It's worth noting plated wheels are very seldom if ever used in production grinding, they're more of a gimmick.
Click to expand...
You say dumbing down, I say making it more accessible
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
A good reason to be concerned about the hp rating is because they say that's what it is. If it doesn't have the amp draw of a true 1/2 hp it shouldn't be represented that way. I don't know for sure if the Rikon grinders exaggerate their hp as many 3rd world makers do. I do know my two older American made grinders are up to speed before you can get your hand away from the switch and their motor rating labels give an amp draw rating matching to their hp.

I notice one seller of the CBN plated wheels recommends buying the low speed Rikon because the higher speed models tend to vibrate. That doesn't speak well about the grinders.

The whole deal with low quality 3rd world tools have the effect of "dumbing down" the buying public. Dealers more or less have to sell the junk because the public buys on price more than quality. This harms the quality manufacturers so quality then becomes harder to find and more expensive.

When I see recommendations of Rikon plus plated CBN I wonder if those individuals have ever used a quality bench grinder with a dressed proper grade and name brand aluminum oxide composite wheel. Doug Thompson is shown in a video sharpening on an aluminum oxide wheel. It's worth noting plated wheels are very seldom if ever used in production grinding, they're more of a gimmick.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but since the grinder and CBN wheels work really great and do just what I need them to, it's not a relevant issue to me. I guess when you buy from a quality supplier like Wood Turners Wonders, the result is a good one. I can't remember any products I bought from them that haven't delivered as described.
 
I’ve been using the same, cheap, no-name 1/2hp grinder for well over 15 years. For the past 13 or 14 years it has two D-Way steel cbn plated wheels. It has, by far outlived what I would assume its design life to be. It shows no sign that it’s slowing down or may have an impending catastrophic failure that may not be fixable. Even if it did, I’ve gotten value from my investment. I’d probably replace it with something similar even though I need to wait a few seconds while it spins up, if I give it a little spin before hitting the switch it actually gets up to speed quickly.
I’m retired, so my hurry may not be same as anyone else’s.
 
I have a Tormek 2000 (predecessor to the T7) which sits gathering dust in a corner of my shop. It gets used occasionally for bench chisels and an occasional jointer blade. I have never been able to use it on my Allen Laser skews, no matter what I do. If I change the wheel to a diamond and don't use water, will I be able to master the art of dressing a Laser skew?
 
RichColvin said:
Mike,

I recommend you look at 3 options.
  • For shaping the tool (this is something that you do very, very rarely), use the high speed grinder with a very friable grindstone. There is a Tormek accessory (BGM-100) which allows for the easy use of the Tormek jigs on that grinder. This is quite good (and not too expensive). This is not a real issue for HSS.
  • For sharpening the tools, I find that I really only use the fine diamond grinding wheel (DF-250).
  • For honing the tools, I like to use the Tormek composite honing wheel.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
How often are you switching wheels? I can't remember what it takes to remove the wheel but I wonder if the hassle would preclude doing it frequently. I didn't realize that tormek made a honing wheel. When I had looked into the diamond wheel I was turned off by the need to use the water additive. I used my t8 for a few months initially to sharpen my turning tools (I bought the t8 for flat woodworking...) but switched over to a slow grinder and wolverine set up. I have been thinking about pulling the tormek back down lately though and using it.
 
You can run the diamond wheels dry. The problem is with metal dust, and that can be as bad for your lungs as wood dust, and yes, even though it is metal, it will float around the shop like wood dust. If I ever get my diamond wheel mounted, I have a spray bottle that I use on my lapping plates for my bench chisels and plane irons. It should both keep the dust down, and the powder out of the air. Less mess, and that water additive comes with the diamond wheel.

robo hippy
 
Nathan Roper said:
How often are you switching wheels? I can't remember what it takes to remove the wheel but I wonder if the hassle would preclude doing it frequently. I didn't realize that tormek made a honing wheel. When I had looked into the diamond wheel I was turned off by the need to use the water additive. I used my t8 for a few months initially to sharpen my turning tools (I bought the t8 for flat woodworking...) but switched over to a slow grinder and wolverine set up. I have been thinking about pulling the tormek back down lately though and using it.
Click to expand...
Nathan,

The original Tormeks had a shaft which required removing a nut using a wrench. Not terribly hard, but annoying.

The newer machines use a reverse-thread, hand-tightened nut. It is easily removed by rotating the wheel backwards whilst holding the honing wheel. (If you have the older style shaft, you can upgrade to the new one using the MSK-250 {https://tormek.com/en/products/spar...ts/msk-250-stainless-steel-shaft-with-ezylock}.) I did that on my older Tormek, and it is a definite improvement. That upgrade is about $60.

With the newer nut, it is no issue to change out the wheels:
  1. Drop the water tray down
  2. Remove the grindstone
  3. Replace the grindstone with another
  4. Raise the water tray.
Total time: less than a minute.

Note, for step 3, it is a good practice to always rotate the grinding wheel so that the text is at the top. I’ve put together a write-up on this at https://sharpeninghandbook.info/Grindstones-Affixing.html.

Hope that helps.

Rich
 
I have the slow speed grinder set up to use the Tormek jigs with it’s own support arm. It’s right next to the Tormek clone. I can go from one to the other without removing the gouge from the jig.

I wrapped the Tormek clone wheel with 1000 grit sandpaper to simulate the diamond stone so I can see how it works out before buying it. Once the sandpaper wears out I will decide on CBN for slow speed or diamond for tormek.

the tools I have sharpened this way cut noticeably better than they did before. I can touch up several times on the Tormek/sandpaper before going back to the slow speed. The slow speed is way better for rounding the heel.
 
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