Question about Titebond II dark wood glue.......?

[Odie]

A few years ago, we had a discussion about Titebond I, II, and III wood glues, and I learned that there is a shelf life of the glue, as it becomes coagulated after a time. I am now buying Titebond II and III in the little bottles to avoid any possible age deterioration, even though I've never had any problems, other than failed bonds from attempting glue-ups in too cold a temperature.

What I'm a little confused about is does this coagulation effect the adherence quality of the glue?.......or is it just a matter of reducing the spread-ability?

I'm having trouble remembering exactly what the shelf life was, but I'm now experiencing some coagulation with some Titebond II dark wood glue......not bad, but it's presence is making an appearance (becoming a little lumpy). I'm now marking the "start date" on Titebond bottles, but this one is unmarked......meaning it's older than that time I first became aware of "shelf life".

Next time I'm at Home Depot, or Lowes, I'll just get a new small bottle, and be done with it........but I'm wondering if the bowls that have waste blocks recently attached with the dark glue are ok......or should they be "suspect"?. I suspect that the adherence will be fine, but I don't recall that discussion addressing this at all.......

Anyone know?

ooc

 

[MartyL]

Glue

Hi I had the opportunity to speak with the head scientist from Franklin, the parent company for Titebond he said the average shelf life of the glue is no more than one year! He told me to watch the dates on the shelf at the store and not to purchase at a place that has a poor turnover of stock.
Marty

 

[Sergio Villa]

I'm just wondering why, if the shelf life is so short/critical, the company doesn't put the expiration date on the bottle. If it is critical then they have a lousy sale policy.

 

[Ian Thorn]

I would have to agree they should put a best before date on the container.

Ian

 

[Odie]

Hi I had the opportunity to speak with the head scientist from Franklin, the parent company for Titebond he said the average shelf life of the glue is no more than one year! He told me to watch the dates on the shelf at the store and not to purchase at a place that has a poor turnover of stock.
Marty

Only one year? Maybe because the storage conditions are beyond the control of the manufacturer.....?

I know that I've had Titebond for longer than that without any problems. I did have problems with Titebond that froze during the winter. Those were bad and had to be tossed out. It's been a long time, and I'm having a hard time remembering for sure, but I believe the frozen Titebond became like Jello after it warmed up.

I'm wondering if the consistency, but not the ability to bond is why the shelf life is what it is.....? This particular bottle of Titebond II dark wood glue has got to be 2-3 years old, and I just noticed that it's getting a little lumpy. I've used it a couple of times in the past few days, and from what I can tell, it's bonding ok. I'm not going to take the chance with it though, because it's a real safety hazard if a bowl block separates from the waste block while on the lathe. 🙁 I added a new bottle to the shopping list.....😉

I'm just wondering why, if the shelf life is so short/critical, the company doesn't put the expiration date on the bottle. If it is critical then they have a lousy sale policy.

Well, that would make sense Sergio. 😀

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm just wondering why, if the shelf life is so short/critical, the company doesn't put the expiration date on the bottle. If it is critical then they have a lousy sale policy.

It IS and has been for years.

It took me about thirty seconds to find the following information on the TiteBond web site:

What Is The Shelf Life Of Titebond Wood Glues?
Please refer to chart below. Although some of our glues last well beyond two years, the freshest material provides the best results. If the glue has thickened, shake/stir to original form. To determine the age of the glue, check the lot number located on the bottle.

How Do I Read The Lot Numbers?
Our current lot numbering system is a 10 digit code. The format is:
aymmddbat#. The "a" stands for Made in the U.S.A. The "y" is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Digits "mm" represent the month, and "dd" represent the day of the month. The final four digits represent the batch number used for quality control purposes. Therefore, a product with the lot number A104270023 was manufactured on April 27, 2011.​

 

[Bill Boehme]

Also, for many years, their magazine ads mentioned the date code so that you could be assured of freshness.

 

[MartyL]

Glue

The reason seemed to be the storage conditions, I had mentioned that I purchased a gallon. He told me the unless I am using a large quantity regularly that I a should buy the smallest bottle possible. ( at the time I was making dining tables laid up with multiple 16 quarter boards. He was concerned with optimal strength and felt that older glue could fail.)
When we use glue in turning we are putting a fair amount of stress on the glue joint I try never to use old glue.

 

[Rob Wallace]

With the one-year suggested shelf life, it leads me to the question of whether merchants of any size (e.g .big-box, Lowe's/Home Depot, Walmart/K-Mart, etc. through mom & pop local hardware store) actually will remove the product off their shelves when it "expires".

I have a hard time believing that they actually would pull their 'old' stock when the one year mark ticks past for the unsold bottles. ("glue ain't milk...") This revelation further reinforces the need for vigilance on the part of woodworkers to check the bottles carefully before purchasing what may be potentially out-of-date product.

Additionally, it emphasizes the need for woodworkers with sufficient testicular fortitude to inform the merchant that, if found, the product on their shelf is "expired' and is out-of-date - something I am certain they would not want to hear.

Rob

 

[MartyL]

Shelf life

Rob I think that's exactly why there is no expiration date. I suppose ther are many uses for the glue that do not require optimal bond. ie something glued and screwed😕
Marty

 

[hockenbery]

How Do I Read The Lot Numbers?
Our current lot numbering system is a 10 digit code. The format is:
aymmddbat#. The "a" stands for Made in the U.S.A. The "y" is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Digits "mm" represent the month, and "dd" represent the day of the month. The final four digits represent the batch number used for quality control purposes. Therefore, a product with the lot number A104270023 was manufactured on April 27, 2011.

and you know it is not 2001 or 1991 because???? 🙂

Al

 

[Sergio Villa]

I still think that their cryptic code is just useless. Why one must go to their internet site to decipher it? Lousy and perhaps deceptive policy.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... it leads me to the question of whether merchants of any size (e.g .big-box, Lowe's/Home Depot, Walmart/K-Mart, etc. through mom & pop local hardware store) actually will remove the product off their shelves when it "expires"....

I can answer that question. I have found out of date glue of every kind at every store that I have visited except for Rockler's and Woodcraft. Some brands do not have an expiration date. I also find out of date milk, lunch meat, yogurt, and other perishables at most grocery stores.

Most paints use a code similar to what Franklin uses on their glue if you are concerned about shelf life of paint. How long do you store paint and do you toss out old paint?

and you know it is not 2001 or 1991 because???? 🙂

Is that a serious question? Pretending that it is, I'll say that after a few years the stuff separates into layers not to mention that the labels have changed several times (based on some old stuff that I found at the back of a shelf from when I used to buy more glue than I used.

I still think that their cryptic code is just useless. Why one must go to their internet site to decipher it? Lousy and perhaps deceptive policy.

You may not like it. If not, tell them rather than stewing about it. If it were deceptive, they're not very good at it given that it is easy to find the answer on their web site. I've known the "secret handshake" for years and have no need to consult the web or a Ouija board. There's always the option of using other brands if you don't trust them. Are there any woodworkers that use glue when they know that it is past the expiration date. I have not met anybody in the construction trade who would hesitate to use old glue. The only limiting factor is whether or not they can get it out of the bottle or caulk tube. If they can, then it is good to go.

 

[Gretch Flo]

"How long do you store paint and do you toss out old paint?


Per this thread, I threw out a gallon of titebond . I quit making home furniture about 15 years ago when I started turning (house got too full). I may have to go back into my dumpster to see if it separated. I don't recall seeing that, Gretch

 

[Bill Boehme]

The Titebond that I threw out a couple years ago was way over the hill by close to ten years. It has to be about that old to separate. Also the storage temperature was far hotter than it should have been. It might not separate if stored in a cooler air conditioned place. My shop would get way over 100° F until I got an air conditioner. I used to work outdoors where it was a comfortable 110° F because the shop was unbearable.

 

[Sergio Villa]

I can answer that question. I have found out of date glue of every kind at every store that I have visited except for Rockler's and Woodcraft. Some brands do not have an expiration date. I also find out of date milk, lunch meat, yogurt, and other perishables at most grocery stores.

Most paints use a code similar to what Franklin uses on their glue if you are concerned about shelf life of paint. How long do you store paint and do you toss out old paint?



Is that a serious question? Pretending that it is, I'll say that after a few years the stuff separates into layers not to mention that the labels have changed several times (based on some old stuff that I found at the back of a shelf from when I used to buy more glue than I used.



You may not like it. If not, tell them rather than stewing about it. If it were deceptive, they're not very good at it given that it is easy to find the answer on their web site. I've known the "secret handshake" for years and have no need to consult the web or a Ouija board. There's always the option of using other brands if you don't trust them. Are there any woodworkers that use glue when they know that it is past the expiration date. I have not met anybody in the construction trade who would hesitate to use old glue. The only limiting factor is whether or not they can get it out of the bottle or caulk tube. If they can, then it is good to go.

Then the espiration date is just to save them in case of problems...still not too serious

 

[Bill Boehme]

Then the espiration date is just to save them in case of problems...still not too serious

So what have you decided to do about it?

 

[Odie]

So what have you decided to do about it?

There is nothing that can be done, unless one wanted to register a complaint with the manufacturer. Titebond seems to be CYA with having the expiration date......this is to be expected. As per your previous post, it's pretty easy to see when it was manufactured....thanks for letting us know about that.

I checked on my bottle of my Titebond II dark wood glue, and the expiration date is rubbed off partially. Can't read it. I know it's several years old, but it's still bonding ok. Went to both Lowes and Home Depot the other day. Both outfits have discontinued carrying it on the shelf, and since it's probably not such a great seller, I can see why that's so.

I see Woodcraft has it listed on their site, so I'll buy more on my next order from them. As with my regular Titebond III, I'll mark the purchase date on the bottle.

The problem I've had with regular Titebond, is when the glue is compressed between a bowl block and the waste block, it penetrates the grain. Not always, but sometimes the glue is visible on the foot of the bowl. This isn't a huge problem, but with some very dark porous woods, like Wenge, for instance, it doesn't look very good. The dark glue is much better for this particular application.....and is why I've been using it.

This only applies to those of us who are faceplate turners......and, we seem to be a very minority among woodturners.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, You and I both know that wood glue will last well beyond its expiration date for most purposes especially if kept in a cool place. My garage gets up to 110° F in the summer so that doesn't qualify as a good place. I used to buy it by the quart, but now that I don't use glue much in turning, I buy the smallest size bottle from the local Rockler's or Woodcraft.

Like shellac, wood glue starts going downhill on the day that it is made. For really critical applications, I might consider using Resorcinol glue since it is mixed when you need it. I have only used it on a couple occasions and it is nasty stuff so I use full respiratory and skin protection when mixing it.