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Problems with faceplate screws pulling out

J

Jim Lee

Joined
Aug 4, 2009
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Hi all,

I am experimenting with the LDD(?) deal where you soak your rough turnings in Liquid detergent and I am really happy with the difference in cutting. Streamer shavings are flying all over like I am Lyle Jamieson. What I am having a problem with is the screws on my faceplate staying in my hollow form pieces. The root of the problem is probably my inexperience hollowing end grain and getting catches that put alot of stress on the piece and I am working on that end grain hollowing stuff as best I can. But in the mean time are there any suggestions for keeping those screws in? I am using 1 inch hex head screws and Have never had problems with a faceplate attachment before using the soaked wood.

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee
 
Screws and nails for that matter, do not hold well in end grain, which is the direction wood splits. If you are going to use them, try to angle them. Longer, bigger diameter ones will do a better job, or I use big chuck jaws and a tenon. I think Lyle Jamison uses big heavy screws, and a face plate.

robo hippy
 
One-inch screws seem awfully short to me. I suggest using screws that are at least two inches long. Also, you should be using deep-thread screws and not the typical old-style hardware store wood screws.

LDD is essentially the same as using PEG 1000. While it may make nice long pretty shavings, the downside is that it hs significnt finish restrictions and wood treated this way tends to rather quickly turn to a rather drab and dull appearance that seems to continue getting darker.
 
Longer heavier screws are the best options. I've put the screws in, pulled them out and then added some thin CA and re installed them. I tried a trick one time that I learned from this group and it seemed to work. Drill some holes sideways in the tenon and glue in some dowels. Then put the screws through the dowels. Now you have the screws holding in side grain which is stronger. I wouldn't normally recommend that because the larger screws work 99 percent of the time.
I had a somewhat punky piece of spalted maple that just didn't want to hold screws. Even a chuck would have probably crushed the wood and might have been suspect. On a piece of wood with a tenon that week it is important to stay outside the line of fire while turning. It could easily break off.
 
Finish restrictions on LDD

Bill, Can you expand on the finish restrictions you mentioned?

Thanks,
Jim Lee
 
Sheet metal screws have nice deep threads that seem to work well for me when attaching a piece of wet wood to a face plate.
 
I use the LDD soaking on all of my bowls. The only real thing it does is make it a lot easier to sand out. There are no problems with Mahoney's walnut oil or any penetrating/furniture type oil applications. I haven't tried any spray lacquers.

robo hippy
 
SPAX screws-Highland Hardware has them. I use #12 x1-1/4". That put about an inch into the end grain. The screws have very deep and thin threads and displace very little wood. The faceplate should be large enough for the piece you are doing, so you're not levering the piece loose. Here's a pic-not end grain in this case, but it's no different.

John
 

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The number of screws is important when there isn't a lot of wood for them to grip into. Many faceplates have only 4 holes. That isn't enough for soft wood and end grain. If you don't have at least 8 holes, start drilling some more of them. The Oneway faceplates are a good investment. Besides being heavy cast iron, the 4" plate has 9 holes and the 6" has 16.

I agree with John. #12 Spax are the best screws for all wood. They hold better than anything else I have used.
 
I've used regular #12 hex head metal screws for years with no trouble, including bowl blanks over eighty pounds. The problem you've got is putting them into end grain. Someone else mentioned this earlier, but just about any screw will pull out of end grain if you have a catch. You'd be far better off with a tenon and jaw set.
 
I have been using the Blue concrete Tacon 1/4 inch screw into end grain and have Had very good luck, they have a 5 /16 hex head and have a small thread inside of the larger thread. The big box stores have usually in packages but I have been finding them in bins at a lumber stores and you can buy what you want ever size and length you want.

Dan
 
Face Plate Screws

Jim,

I also use the LDD method. But I have never "returned" after using it. I have only done a few end grain bowls, and notice that the screws tend to loosen, I use #14 x 1 1/4" with 3/8" thick face plates. When I use my 3" face plate, it has two (2) sets of bolt circles, I use the smaller dia. for location then use the larger bolt circle that are on an angle and never had anything loosen up.
Good Luck,

Dave
 
One thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned the screw hole prep. It not only has to be the right diameter (not too tight, not too loose), but it's also a good practice to drill a tiny countersink at the entry point. If the screw displaces just a tiny bit of wood onto the surface, then the faceplate will not rest flush with the surface of the wood. If the plate is not flush, then there is leverage and it can be loosened much more easily compared to if it's tight against the wood.
 
+1 to using hex lag screws. Depends on the size of the work but I use anywhere from 3/4 to 2" screws. I only use hex because otherwise I end up stripping sooner or later, Hex will last a lot longer, just make sure your faceplate will give you enough room to get in close with drill.
 
+1 more for long, sheet metal, and hex heads. Nut driver and socket wrench give better purchase on the head. The head is self-centering in the faceplate countersink, and if it's a little off, all the better because it provides some lateral bite. I mark the wood through the faceplate holes (with index mark on both in case of weird hole locations), and drill the pilot holes. Minor errors increase the lateral bite.

I keep the screws and a dedicated pilot bit in their own container - a salvaged pill bottle.

Good idea about countersinking the wood. Thanks, Malcolm.
 
The Spax screws, and similar modern wood screws, have such thin threads and deep root , that they can be driven by hand-the first threads have a serrated edge. Lag bolts and sheetmetal screws are crude by comparison. I've turned many large pieces with 8 or 10 1-1/4" x 12 screws, and don't recall ever having lost one. With a good faceplate and the blank properly flattened or slightly concave, it is much better than a chuck for large heavy pieces.

I haven't drilled a pilot hole in 20 years, BUT I use green wood. My friend Malcolm likes that old dry stuff 😀, and pilot holes are probably wise in most cases.

Try them, what have you got to lose? 🙂 Like many things, if the way you are doing it works and it's simple, it's OK. That's probably true with most of the advice you've gotten here.🙂

John
 
Last edited:
John Jordan said:
My friend Malcolm likes that old dry stuff 😀, and pilot holes are probably wise in most cases.
John
Click to expand...

John, right you are. The drier the better. My faceplaces are often screwed onto very dry 8/4 mesquite; not something I want to drive a screw into without a pilot hole. That's also where a slight countersink at the pilot hole opening pays off.
 
Faceplate screws

I turned a 12 x 5 bowl out of fir today. The wood was somewhere between wet and dry. Screws were the Tacon concrete 3/16, length 1 3/4. Using the 5 inch faceplate ring in the 4 inch jaws and supernova chuck gave a superb hold even though the ring only accomodates 5 screws. I can't say that the same will be true for what I would call completely wet wood but will report on that later. I will try the spax screws when obtainable. Haven't been able to find locally here in Denver and may have to order.

This was not end grain, it was side grain.
 
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