Problem with Robust tool rests.........

[Odie]

The Robust tool rests with hardened steel rods are a terrific idea. As most of you know, anything that improves the fluid motion of your lathe tools translates into better more controlled cutting action.

I bought my first Robust tool rest early this year, and and that positive experience led me to buy three more. A couple months ago, after noticing the tools weren't slipping over the steel rod as well as I thought they should, I noticed the hardened steel rods had tiny scratch marks on them. The scratches were small and not obvious to a casual observer, but were enough to interfere with the basic purpose of these tool rests.

After polishing the scratch marks out, my lathe tools now slide over their surface much better. Since they are hardened, it was not so easy, but I did get a smoother surface with a small sanding flap wheel.

I don't know if the rough surface is now the standard, or I just happen to get some of this product that was that way. I can guess that the scratches were part of the manufacturing process......maybe a final method of cleaning up the surface after the epoxy or painting......?

I want to make it clear that I'm still very happy to have these tool rests, because the theory is solid, the improvement is definitely a good thing. They are a great help when delicately applied motion is needed........only that the very purpose of the rests has been restricted by something in the manufacturing process that can be improved upon......(maybe that has already happened, I don't know.)

ooc

 

[Gynia]

I have a Oneway lathe and I like to turn platters. I prefer the tool rest to sit close to the spinning wood so the overhang of the tool rest beyond the banjo is critical for me. The Oneway tool rest have enough overhang to sit close to the spinning wood. The robust comfort tool rest I had couldn't get closer than 1/2" (which ends up being 1" when working the finishing cuts at the middle of the platter).

For folks who don't do much platter work or where the banjo is of a different design than the Oneway banjo this may not be an issue. It is an issue for me and I sold my robust tool rest years ago.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hi Odie,

I have several Robust rests I use on my Stubby. I routinely "rub" them down with fine emory cloth to clean sap and shavings off. I do the same on my Kobra hardened cross-bar rest. Keeps things gliding nicely.

 

[James E Gaydos]

Tool Rests

Hi Odie,
I bought a tool rest from Woodcraft years ago, before Robust was around. It also has the hardened steel rod. I love this rest, but I found out that it needed to be treated like most other tool rests. I got into the habit, when using this rest, to sand the rod with a piece of 150 gt and then wax it. I don't have to do this as often as a cast rest, but it seems to make it much smoother to use.
Jim

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, I assume that the hardened rods are cut to length, bent in some cases, and bonded to the rest without any special TLC to give them a "polished" finish. I spent some time pimping up my Robust rests which included rounding the sharp ends and polishing with silicon carbide paper up to 1500 grit and finishing with metal polish. I also use paste wax to make them a bit slicker, yet and less prone to build up crud.

I have four Robust tool rests and while I really like the hardened rods, there are some design "enhancements" that I would like to see. I plan to share my ideas with Brent.

 

[Odie]

Odie, I assume that the hardened rods are cut to length, bent in some cases, and bonded to the rest without any special TLC to give them a "polished" finish. I spent some time pimping up my Robust rests which included rounding the sharp ends and polishing with silicon carbide paper up to 1500 grit and finishing with metal polish. I also use paste wax to make them a bit slicker, yet and less prone to build up crud.

I have four Robust tool rests and while I really like the hardened rods, there are some design "enhancements" that I would like to see. I plan to share my ideas with Brent.

Yes, I think there could be some improvements rounding the edges, as you mention, Bill.....

Apparently, I'm being misunderstood by a few others here. The fine "scratches" I removed on the second batch of Robust tool rests had some kind of prepping from manufacturing that left a surface that needed some polishing. This surface, although was not readily apparent to casual observance, was noticeable with scrutiny. It was noticeably more rough a surface than my original Robust rest......and was preventing a smooth movement between lathe tool and the rest itself.....especially noticeable with shear scraping where only a single point of contact exists. I'm not discussing the regular and expected maintenance requirement that is normal with tool rests from use.......

The polishing you did is something I may want to do.....because anything that increases the smoothness of the hardened rod will undoubtedly be an improvement. I may end up taking these rests to work, and using some of the metal polishing equipment we have there.....hadn't thought of that prior to your making the suggestion!

thanks

ooc

 

[john lucas]

Odie are your tools edges rounded. I have not had a problem with any dings in my Robust tool rests. I ground and sanded the edges of all my tools many years ago. My Powermatic tool rests were quite soft and dinged easily.

 

[Odie]

Odie are your tools edges rounded. I have not had a problem with any dings in my Robust tool rests. I ground and sanded the edges of all my tools many years ago. My Powermatic tool rests were quite soft and dinged easily.

Yep, my tool bottom edges are rounded, and have been for a couple decades! See "odie's crazy ideas #18" here:

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/22713029

The problem can be seen with your eyes, IF your Robust tool rests are the same as mine......little scratches on the hardened rod surface that were obviously a part of the manufacturing process......not the result of subsequent use. There is no doubt as to the source of the problem. As stated, I used a flap sanding wheel to smooth them out somewhat, and subsequent use confirmed that the problem had been reduced. It's my intent to take this a little further and use some of the polishing equipment we use for polishing medical instruments at work........

As with your softer Powermatic tool rests......All of my other tool rests do not have a hardened surface like the Robust rests. This is why the Robust rests are so special, and important to a more advanced lathe turner........Specifically because finishing cuts with both gouges and scrapers use such a delicate touch to achieve the best results. That delicate touch best benefits from the smooth sliding action the hardened rod provides. These things were apparent to me from the performance of my first Robust tool rest, which had a smoother hardened rod surface from the gitgo.

Softer tool rests are still very useful for the overwhelming majority of the tool work we do, but the Robust rests represent an important improvement that I'm positive will become the preferred tool rest in the future. As with everything else, all is subject to evolution! This is why catcher's mitts no longer look like a donut, and your automobile suspension has little resemblance to the suspension on a horse-drawn carriage!

ooc

 

[MichaelMouse]

Odie are your tools edges rounded. I have not had a problem with any dings in my Robust tool rests. I ground and sanded the edges of all my tools many years ago. My Powermatic tool rests were quite soft and dinged easily.

Overhand grip really makes a difference. When there's no space between tool and its support (you think that's why they call it a "rest?") you don't develop nicks.

I guess I'm not " a more advanced turner," because I can go thousands of pieces without filing my cast rests. When I got this lathe second-hand I had a good-sized ding in the long rest from the former owner. Filed it nearly out, haven't had to do it it since.

 

[Odie]

Overhand grip really makes a difference. When there's no space between tool and its support (you think that's why they call it a "rest?") you don't develop nicks.

I guess I'm not " a more advanced turner," because I can go thousands of pieces without filing my cast rests. When I got this lathe second-hand I had a good-sized ding in the long rest from the former owner. Filed it nearly out, haven't had to do it it since.

MM......you're missing the point.....

The hardened tool rest isn't about preventing nicks at all......it's about the smoothness of sliding metal to metal contact between tool and rest.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, I got one of my Robust rests about three or four years ago and while it could be my imagination, I think that the surface finish was a bit more polished looking. Nevertheless, it is not a major job to bring them up to snuff. First off, I use the bench grinder to round over the ends of the rod. Next, I start with 400 grit silicon carbide, then 600 and finally 1500. I messed around with crocus cloth, but the 1500 grit paper gives a better finish. On my oldest rest, I also went through the various grades of Micromesh which results in a mirror finish. You can do the whole job in ten minutes with a little elbow grease. The metal polish that I use with my Tormek is what I used to give a final high-gloss finish. Occasionally, a bit of Johnson's paste wax will slick things up nicely. BTW, I give the same polish treatment to my turning tools. The end result is slicker than snot on a glass doorknob.

I am cringing at the idea of using 150 grit paper or a flapper type sanding disk. If you try sanding with ordinary paper designed for wood, that may the the reason you find it to be big job. Get some Wet-or-Dry silicon carbide paper and it will cut the metal without a problem. Since you may have scratched up the rod with the coarse paper, you might need to start with 320 grit. However, the whole job shouldn't take very long at all and will be quicker and probably even better than hauling it to work. If you are pedantic like me or OCD then you might even throw in the Micromesh treatment for the coup de grâce.

The best toolrest design (except for not having a hardened surface) that I have ever tried is the old Delta style rest with the great fitting groove for the index finger to help guide the cutting edge. I can also drop the back of the handle way down and still maintain contact with the top edge of the rest. When I do that with my straight Robust rests, the contact point shifts to the bottom edge of the toolrest. I am thinking about grinding away some of the bottom edge so that I can drop he handle a bit more without running into this problem.

Currently, I stick the Delta rest on my Robust when I want to make some very light finishing cuts.

 

[Odie]

Odie, I got one of my Robust rests about three or four years ago and while it could be my imagination, I think that the surface finish was a bit more polished looking. Nevertheless, it is not a major job to bring them up to snuff. First off, I use the bench grinder to round over the ends of the rod. Next, I start with 400 grit silicon carbide, then 600 and finally 1500. I messed around with crocus cloth, but the 1500 grit paper gives a better finish. On my oldest rest, I also went through the various grades of Micromesh which results in a mirror finish. You can do the whole job in ten minutes with a little elbow grease. The metal polish that I use with my Tormek is what I used to give a final high-gloss finish. Occasionally, a bit of Johnson's paste wax will slick things up nicely. BTW, I give the same polish treatment to my turning tools. The end result is slicker than snot on a glass doorknob.

I am cringing at the idea of using 150 grit paper or a flapper type sanding disk. If you try sanding with ordinary paper designed for wood, that may the the reason you find it to be big job. Get some Wet-or-Dry silicon carbide paper and it will cut the metal without a problem. Since you may have scratched up the rod with the coarse paper, you might need to start with 320 grit. However, the whole job shouldn't take very long at all and will be quicker and probably even better than hauling it to work. If you are pedantic like me or OCD then you might even throw in the Micromesh treatment for the coup de grâce.

The best toolrest design (except for not having a hardened surface) that I have ever tried is the old Delta style rest with the great fitting groove for the index finger to help guide the cutting edge. I can also drop the back of the handle way down and still maintain contact with the top edge of the rest. When I do that with my straight Robust rests, the contact point shifts to the bottom edge of the toolrest. I am thinking about grinding away some of the bottom edge so that I can drop he handle a bit more without running into this problem.

Currently, I stick the Delta rest on my Robust when I want to make some very light finishing cuts.

Hi Bill.......

After posting my last post, I went out to the shop and had a "flash" of memory. I can't even remember why I bought them, but about 10 years ago, I purchased a hard felt polishing wheel and a stick of green rouge! Well, it only took a short time, but now all four Robust rests have a very shiny and smooth top surface! Some of those offensive scratch marks were much heavier and deeper, the closer to the epoxy bond it got. (This may be a clue as to the source of the scratches in the first place.....😕)

I'm sure your polishing method works just fine, and the hard felt wheel plus green rouge works equally as well........This way, it works well for me to use what I had on hand already.

You bet......you are absolutely right that the flap wheels were not the best way to go......but, it was all I could think of at the time. It wasn't a mistake, just a poor choice. What that method did do, is give me some real insight into the solution to the problem, although that wasn't IT! After using the flap wheels, the tool movement over the hardened rod did improve, so I know that was why I was having feelings that the tools weren't sliding along the rest as well as they should have been.......

Anyway........thanks for the input, and I'm now considering this case closed. I hope Robust has already come to a realization that the methods they used on the rests I purchased needed to change......probably so. I remember when the Robust owner came on this forum to ask for advice on engineering these rests. Was it you who was working with him directly on that?

ooc

 

[Odie]

BTW, Bill.......

The two green tool rests here are original to my Australian Woodfast lathe. I'd be willing to bet the shape of these are similar to the Delta rests you spoke of, and liked so well. I agree......an excellent design, and if I could trade all my other rests for this shape with the hardened rod attached.......I'd do it in a heartbeat! You're right about how well they fit your hand for comfort and utility.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, I am glad to hear that you had an "aha" moment on polishing the hardened rod. If I would have had something like your felt wheel, I am sure that is what I would have used.

I am fairly certain that I did not give Brent English any suggestions about tool rest design. When I was at SWAT I saw his latest toolrest which has a J shape. The design was created specifically for Johannes Michelsen for hat turning. Doug Thompson also makes the Johannes Michelsen signature gouges. I think that you have to go to Johannes to get the gouges and handles. Before now, I was not really a fan of curve tool rests, but I really do like the Robust Inside and outside curved bowl rests mainly because the support beneath the rod allows the tool handle to be dropped very steeply without an interference problem. It does seem to me that the rod on the curved rests is less smooth than on the straight ones. This would make sense because the rods need to be bent to the desired shape.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The Woodfast rests have a slight resemblance to the Delta rests. I will try to get a picture tomorrow.

 

[Brent@TurnRobust]

Brent at Robust here. As a small company that prides itself on customer service, I do encourage anyone with any questions, comments or concerns with our products to feel free to contact us directly. Those of you who know us, know I routinely give out my cell phone number and answer it any reasonable waking hour, any day of the week. We're usually pretty quick with getting back to an email too.

Thanks to all who posted about Odie's issue. Seems like he got it resolved with your help. It's good feedback for us as well. I think I speak for all the woodturning community suppliers when I say: Give us a call first.

Our toolrests are warranted for life, and if you have any problems, we will make it right or replace the rest.

Thanks, Brent English

 

[Odie]

Brent at Robust here. As a small company that prides itself on customer service, I do encourage anyone with any questions, comments or concerns with our products to feel free to contact us directly. Those of you who know us, know I routinely give out my cell phone number and answer it any reasonable waking hour, any day of the week. We're usually pretty quick with getting back to an email too.

Thanks to all who posted about Odie's issue. Seems like he got it resolved with your help. It's good feedback for us as well. I think I speak for all the woodturning community suppliers when I say: Give us a call first.

Our toolrests are warranted for life, and if you have any problems, we will make it right or replace the rest.

Thanks, Brent English

Thanks, Brent.........I'll remember that.

For the record, and just to inform anyone who reads this thread in the future......I want it to be known that I feel the Robust rests are an innovative approach to the basic function of tool rests. The hardened steel rod is an idea that isn't just another way to do the same thing as other rests......it's a better way! The smoothness of metal to metal sliding contact between tool and toolrest is a positive way to improve tool control......and is especially helpful for final delicately controlled finishing cuts just prior to sanding.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks, Brent.........I'll remember that.

For the record, and just to inform anyone who reads this thread in the future......I want it to be known that I feel the Robust rests are an innovative approach to the basic function of tool rests. The hardened steel rod is an idea that isn't just another way to do the same thing as other rests......it's a better way! The smoothness of metal to metal sliding contact between tool and toolrest is a positive way to improve tool control......and is especially helpful for final delicately controlled finishing cuts just prior to sanding.

ooc

Odie, I can vouch for Brent going out of his way (literally) to help a customer. Working with him is probably the best customer experience that I have ever had.

 

[Odie]

The Woodfast rests have a slight resemblance to the Delta rests. I will try to get a picture tomorrow.

Here's a better picture of the profile of the Woodfast tool rest. IMHO, this shape is the best I've ever used. Fingers can slide underneath the top portion of the rest, making it very good for tool control.

If the Robust toolrests had this shape, plus the hardened steel rod for the lathe tool to slide on......well, I believe it would be an improvement. As it is, the Robust rests do have the hardened rod......and, that is an advantage that is probably more worthwhile than the more refined shape of the Woodfast toolrest......but, to have BOTH, would be fantastic! 😀

I'm also including a photo of my first Robust tool rest for a comparison.......This one is an early version, prior to the modification giving more clearance up front.

ooc