Pricing my products

[paulhurm]

I'm a bit excited! A co-worker noticed a woodworking catalog on my desk and I ended up with a commission to do my first pen for sale. I also do other items such as small turned boxes which he may be interested in.

Can anyone give me web sites or your own thoughts on a process to use to determine how much to charge? I do realize that there are a lot of variables but any insight would definately be appreciated.

TIA.

Paul

 

[John Abt]

Paul,

I recently began selling my work as well.

At first, I tried a formula to calculate the price on pens and pencils that I found on Penturners.org. The formula was 1.5 * (cost of materials) + $20. For other items, I've been visiting other shows and looking at how much others were selling for. It's not to get rich, but I don't want to overcharge (and not get a sale) and I don't want to undercut my fellow woodturners.

Here are some price examples:

Slimline pens from $15 - $35 depending on wood and metal finish
Designer pens from $15 - up again, depending
other pens follow this trend, pen and pencil sets are ususally 10% less than individual items.
Honey dipper - $4
Potpourri boxes - $10 - 15
Simple, small boxes - $15

Bowls and artistic items vary wildly depending on artist, wood and what the market will bear.

One last bit of advice is: Don't discount toward the end of a show. If you do, the word will get around and you will only make sales at the end, although you could give quantity discounts.

Hopefully, you aren't trying to make a living from this and are only trying to recoup some of your expenses.

Of course, the most important thing is to have fun.

 

[DeanGThomas]

Paul,

Congrats. Similar sort of thing happened to me to get me really started and hooked on turning. Co-worker, catalog, ideas, and finally the question: "Can you make me something like this for less than they charge?" Their price was sky-high, so, yeah, I can do that. A turner was born! 😛

There is a good little book available that will help you think through some of this stuff. Some libraries have it. Amazon sells it, as do other booksellers.

The Woodworker's Guide to Pricing Your Work by Dan Ramsey. Available on Amazon (used for $6.00) will help you with most any level of sales that you want to consider.

The biggest deal is that you don't underprice yourself. Your time is worth something. Mark up the materials, including finish & abrasives involved. The mark up tries to allow for your overhead and your costs of "doing business". That means start-up costs and ongoing costs like power, light, and HVAC. Figure out what it SHOULD take you to make the object, not how much time you ALLOW yourself. Multiply by the hourly figure that suits your fancy. This will be different if you're selling your hobby wares than if you're trying to make a living. Just a rule of thumb.

Hope it helps. YMMV.

 

[n7bsn]

Another rule of thumb is 3x material.

Until you become an established artist , then it's what ever the traffic will bare

 

[Barry Elder]

Pricing Products

FWIW, every piece of wood and every item you produce has a story behind it. And every customer wants to know that story so they can pass it on.

Down here in Florida during the "Season" prices become ridiculous. After having been through two major hurricanes in 2004 and salvaging a full to overflowing storeroom of local woods, including some that cannot be found anywhere else, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!! Everything I turn is a OOAK. While I consider myself a novice and will for many years, I make sure to tell any customer the story and that I don't turn museum pieces because I'm not good enough but I get to learn on "special" woods.

And, being retired and having a hobby, I don't have to sell anything to make a living. Take your time and enjoy learning your turning!!

 

[Bill Boehme]

There is a very good new book by Barry Gross titled, "Learn to Turn" (Fox Chappell Publishing) that has a good section on selling your work.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

Everything I turn is a OOAK.

Lots of people, including at least one of the moderators here disparage oak, but it sure sells the second it goes on the shelf. Not my favorite wood to turn, nor is it particularly appropriate to use as salad bowls because of the open pores, but people love it. I even built, at customer insistence, a crib out of red oak once, though not until I had exhausted arguments about spilled milk, splinters and teething.

I charge five bucks for materials and twenty-five an hour minimum, doubling or tripling the minimum based on the rarity factor of the wood. If I were down in FL for the "season," I'd probably jack 'em up to cover the cost of living.

 

[C Edward Moore]

Ooak

I believe that OOAK stands for "One Of A Kind".

That said, I have also had good luck selling oak.
:cool2:

 

[Bill Boehme]

I even built, at customer insistence, a crib out of red oak once, though not until I had exhausted arguments about spilled milk .......

No sense in crying over spilled milk, but charging more for OAK is mostly OK especially if it is OOAK.

BTW, if you made bowls from white oak (especially post oak, aka cross oak) or live oak, there would not be the porosity problem that red oak has.

Bill

 

[WODAD]

Would we,as members of an organization, be out of line to periodically post a few pictures of items we've sold with sales price and any particulars about the piece? I would stress the "sales" part because you can price yourself into starvation. Sold is the key word.

Frank D.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Would we,as members of an organization, be out of line to periodically post a few pictures of items we've sold with sales price and any particulars about the piece? I would stress the "sales" part because you can price yourself into starvation. Sold is the key word.

Frank D.

It depends on what you mean by "members of an organization". If you mean AAW members posting that sort of information on this website, the answer is no. If you are talking about a cooperative gallery with an online presence, the answer is yes.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

No sense in crying over spilled milk, but charging more for OAK is mostly OK especially if it is OOAK.

BTW, if you made bowls from white oak (especially post oak, aka cross oak) or live oak, there would not be the porosity problem that red oak has.

Shoulda looked at www.acronymfinder.com , eh?

Sadly, I have to go south a few degrees to get into country which will support white oak. The northern red doesn't like to be too cold either, but it grows some places within a hundred miles where it can find shelter.

 

[WODAD]

It depends on what you mean by "members of an organization". If you mean AAW members posting that sort of information on this website, the answer is no. If you are talking about a cooperative gallery with an online presence, the answer is yes.

Bill

Bill,

I do mean as members of the AAW. It seems to me that the topic always comes up regarding pricing and I think it would be of benefit to those new to turning or trying to sell their work. It would have to be taken with a grain of salt though considering quality of work, venue and consumer. I have some pieces I've sold that left me feeling like I'd left money on the table and other pieces I've almost given away trying to move 'em.

Frank D.

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Paul
I had never turned a pen when a friend asked if I could make these, pointing in my Crafts Supply catalog at pens. I said 'Sure' he said he'd 'need 50' for Christmas, and I said $20 a pop. Deal done. Told lovely and generous wife, she said make me 50 for her staff. Now I had 100 to make. It kept me busy but Kurt's $1000 paid for wife's needs and the tools, materials, and fixtures to do the job and some more. That's they way we all get started.

Pricing, I struggled with this. I got invited to be in a little gallery by acident. I had some nice pieces ready; bowls and platters, but could not decide on prices. My solution was to invite a full time bronze artist that lives in my town to dinner and he and his wife set my prices for that first gallery experience. It worked. I got what I considered top dollar for several pieces, got invited to several other art events and was able to keep up with inventory and not create a second stressful job. I dift lower on pieces I am bored with having around the house now but I got a feel for where my prices can or should be. Still struggle with the topic from time to time.

Something I am playing with now is (height minus 1) plus (Diameter minus 1) times a factor. The factor seems to be the hardest part, but something around 1.5 times the board foot value of the wood seems to work. Then I apply a percentage for decoration, inlay, burning, any lamination not to exceed 20%.

Keep notes on the history of a price you have on all your pieces. If something was $100 one day it can't be $200 the next or it can't go down too much either. The guy who bought a piece that sees you somewhere else and your prices are really different will alway feel uncomfortable buying from you and the rest of us in the future.

Frank

 

[DeanGThomas]

A different view of talking prices

Would we,as members of an organization, be out of line to periodically post a few pictures of items we've sold with sales price and any particulars about the piece? I would stress the "sales" part because you can price yourself into starvation. Sold is the key word.

Frank and others,

On the surface, this sounds like a great idea. Educational (in a vague sense), helpful to newbies, all those kinds of warm, fuzzy, good feelings.

However, I must kind of disagree with one of the answers, the one about if the AAW hosted such a "we sold this for that $$" type gallery.

I preface this story with a strong "I am NOT a 501(c)(3) expert." I did, however, sit on the board of a craft guild that was a 501(c)(3). One of the folks in that organization created a nifty little pocket guide for pricing the myriad of services that those members performed on a regular basis. He put in that guide what his own hourly rate was and how many hours he felt should be allowed and charged for each particular service. What a huge boon to a relative newbie in that field. It was pretty common place for members in each chapter of that national organization to know what everyone else in their vicinity was charging for common services. It was discussed at some chapter meetings.

Along came the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, who leveled charges of price fixing! CHARGES!! No joke. Court time, lawyers, appeals, allegations, accusations. Geez Looeezz! It was a MESS. It took years to bring the litigation to an end and to get the charges dismissed without prejudice. It also meant that the organization was under constant surveillance (audits, inspections, etc.) with the constant threat of renewal of the charges.

That organization had about 3000 members at the time. The members were primarily in the US, but we had some in other countries until those countries' members could create their own organizations. The feds looked at that tiny little organization and wreaked havoc with them. All because the guys wanted to be educational and helpful to others!

The whole nonprofit, tax exempt status is a tricky bunch of stuff. Keeping it is simple if the organization is small and controllable. When whole bunches of folks in small clumps (er, chapters in our case and theirs) begin to do things in total innocence that feel good, but don't line up with federal laws, rules, and guidelines, stuff happens!

Be wary of anything that could be construed as price comparisons. Feds look at that as price FIXING, not comparing! And the feds take a dim view of tax-exempt orgs permitting that under their 501(c)(3) status.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Pictures with prices are not appropriate for the forum or the picture gallery. The objective of the organization is education. It would be easy for someone to post a picture of a 12" bowl with a price, then the next thing ya know people would be using the forum as a sales mechanism (whether well intended or not).

Pricing discussions are healthy. The topic comes up pretty frequently. If you go thru a gallery, the owner should be able to estimate a good initial price based on market demand. One good way to determine price is to look at galleries or craft shows and see what other people are charging. If you ask my relatives, they all got great deals because they got pieces for free.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Another example of tax problems somewhat analogous to what Dean Thomas described is the crisis that the Soaring Society of America is in currently because it lost its tax exempt status. This is the national organization for sailplane pilots and owners. The circumstances are different, but the result is a lot like the other situation. They are having to cough up around a million dollars in back taxes dating back to around 2000 which is putting the survival of the organization in jeopardy.

Bill

 

[Richard Baker]

Oak

Shoulda looked at www.acronymfinder.com , eh?

Sadly, I have to go south a few degrees to get into country which will support white oak. The northern red doesn't like to be too cold either, but it grows some places within a hundred miles where it can find shelter.

MM, Too bad you are not closer to me. Could happily supply you with some Post Oak. Not worth the cost of shipping, however.

 

[paulhurm]

Thanks for the info

Thanks to all for the suggestions and info. I have been away due to computer problems. I am probably a week or so away from actually having to set any kind of price so this will give me time to try to check some of the resources mentioned and otherwise think things through.

I am by no means trying for a different job with this! - just a helpful way to buy a few more toys! Interestingly though, there was mention of getting to the point where you are considered an artist. The town where I live, Hamilton, OH, has just gotten results from a study they had done by a group that helps develop artist communities. Typical of many areas, our downtown had some blighted buildings which have been renovated within recent years and our downtown area would probably serve this purpose well. This is something that I am going to keep an eye on as a possible space to build a proper shop instead of the very small corner of my garage now devoted to this hobby.

Now as to oak, I just happened to pick up an oak board scrap from a friend of ours who has a kitchen etc building business. Although I found it a little tricky to turn, the slimline pen I make came out quite interesting. I have two sets of opposing grain, one point up the pen, the other down. This was just an experiment so I did not go to my normal detail in finishing and did not seal the grain but it is still pretty nice looking and the graininess actually feels fine and gives a better feel to the grip. I have no idea which species of oak it is but it is definately an interesting pattern.

Thanks again for the discussion.