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Powermatic 3520A AC Drive Replacement

R

Robert Waddell

Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
4
Likes
1
Location
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
I bought a 3520A Powermatic in 1997 and it was proudly made by good old boys in Tennessee. No problems at all until last week when the Baldor drive went out. The 3520B, made in Taiwan, uses a Delta VFD 015B21B, also made in Taiwan. Tech support at Powermatic also recommends that a Braking Resister,part No.6255733 be added. The problem is that they did not have the drive and it has been a bear trying to find one. I literally stumbled on a distributer who had it and was anxious to see it leave. The basic problem is that this drive is not a core item and is not likely to be stocked by a distributer. It can be ordered but the wait time may be as long a 3 months unless Delta Products Industrial Automation in Raleigh, 919-767-3813,happens to have received a recent order from a distributer.
Bottom line. If you do not use the 015B21B, Powermatic will not support you with wiring or programing. Other drives work but you are on your own to work it out. Also, I have been told that if you buy a used one and it has been locked, you need the password to make it operational. I hope this saves others, who have the same problem, some grief. It seems to me that Powermatic should always keep drives on hand and I will suggest that.

Robert Waddell
 
maybe I'm misunderstanding - but you're saying that PM will not supply any wiring or programming for "other" (non-factory) parts that you want to use on your lathe?

I think I'll have to go with a big "well, duh" on that.

why should they assume any liability for your substitution of aftermarket parts if they have not tested the specific combination of parts?
 
I'm still researching this myself. My good friend also has a dead or at least problem VFD. I'm going over to his house tomorrow to see what I can figure. My understanding from talking with Bob is that Powermatic isn't carrying in stock the replacement drives. They have to be ordered and could take 3 months to get. Apparently they will help you install and program the new drive when you get it. I agree, it would probably be a liability if they helped you install an aftermarket use. I checked and you can get drives from www.dealerselectric.com. I have purchased one before for another machine but since I don't have a lot of electrical skills I don't know how to select the right one. I have done some programming on a few settings but that's all. I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out if they can offer any help in at least picking the right VFD for the powermatic motor.
 
john lucas said:
I'm still researching this myself. My good friend also has a dead or at least problem VFD. I'm going over to his house tomorrow to see what I can figure. My understanding from talking with Bob is that Powermatic isn't carrying in stock the replacement drives. They have to be ordered and could take 3 months to get. Apparently they will help you install and program the new drive when you get it. I agree, it would probably be a liability if they helped you install an aftermarket use. I checked and you can get drives from www.dealerselectric.com. I have purchased one before for another machine but since I don't have a lot of electrical skills I don't know how to select the right one. I have done some programming on a few settings but that's all. I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out if they can offer any help in at least picking the right VFD for the powermatic motor.
Click to expand...

Bob and I spoke after you referred him to me. The current Delta Electronics drive has been EOL'ed -- it is a very old design. There are much better drives available now. Typically, a model only lasts for about five years before it is replaced by a newer version.The Toshiba Tosvert S11 on my lathe is no longer being produced, but some may still be in the supply chain and it is still being serviced until 2016. The replacement recommended by Toshiba is the S15. I recommended the Toshiba to Bob as an excellent inverter. I have several Baldor inverters and had a chance to get five almost new ones for pennies on the dollar, but passed on the deal. Now, I wish that I hadn't.

If I were you, I would get a better inverter than the Delta. Sensorless vector control is better than V/Hz and many models feature auto-tuning. Some models have better auto-tuning than others. Some models do not need a braking resistor if the motor meets inverter duty specifications. Since the Powermatic uses a no-name motor on the newer models and the time that the older model 3520 was produced, motors didn't have the same insulation class rating, so in either case, I would opt for the braking resistor. I know, it's extra money, but you can't take it with you AFAIK.

Dwight, there is no law requiring any support after the sale except in Government contracts. In government contracts, the time period depends on the procuring agency. Often when a manufacturer reports that they will be discontinuing something like old technology semiconductors, the Government will be offered the opportunity for a "lifetime buy". If you go to Harbor Freight, you will find that generally speaking their machine are only supported by replacing the entire machine during the warranty period. You may be thinking of the case where a change in federal law obsoletes some type of equipment then there must be at least seven years grandfathering allowed that the equipmewnt can still be used. The most notable example is the switch from NTSB broadcast equipment and receivers to HD equipment. The changeover actually got stretched out several times. If you buy a television, computer, etc., in most cases, there is no such thing as replacement parts. Everything is becoming throw-away.
 
I went over to Randy's this morning and best as I can tell it's the VFD that's bad. It gives a reading of OCR and shuts the motor down after about 2 seconds. He called me just a while ago and said that he called Southern Tool and they gave him the number of the distributor in Lavergne TN just down the road from me. He called them and they said they have replacement drives for $499 and could ship one out next day. I've looked at aftermarket units and can get one for about $200 to $250. Of course we would have to install it and program it ourselves. I was successful on 2 of my own lathes doing this but I was doing it blind and didn't really know what I was doing so I'm a little unwilling to do it for another person in case it doesn't work. If we install the Powermatic one they will help with any problems. Still waiting to hear from Randy about his decision but it sounds like he's going with the Powermatic replacement.
 
Duane Not sure what your asking. Randy said they told him $499 from Powermatic. The Ebay ones were less but we don't know if they have been programmed properly for the Powermatic or if we can program them ourselves.
 
John, contact Bob Waddell. He said that he located a distributor that still had a new Delta inverter (same P/N as used on Powermatic 3520B) in stock and sold it to him for $250 just because it was sitting there and they wanted to rid of it. The distributor might possibly have more, but I don't recall if Bob mentioned that. As far as programming is concerned, just download the full user manual and the programming instructions are fairly straightforward. Some of the new inverters can self program with little or no user intervention, but the old Delta unit may require you to do certain things like running the motor completely unloaded (i.e., remove the drive belt) and additional programming with maximum inertia and torque loads. It's the second part that could be a challenge because there is no such thing a an absolutely right answer when it comes to woodturning. If you can find an exact replacement for the Delta inverter, then it should not be a problem to call Powermatic tech support and ask them about parameter settings. Most will be default. Some are simply related to how the inverter is configured (external potentiometer speed control, external FWD/REV switch, external START/STOP. Motor parameters: some are on the nameplate and most others can be auto-tuned or obtained from Powermatic tech support. If it is an American made motor like Leeson or Baldor then you may be able to get the information from the manufacturer. Some other things are user preference such as ramp up and ramp down times. Don't ramp down too fast or you may have the chuck/faceplate unscrew. Slow acceleration/deceleration is easier on the equipment, but too slow can be aggravating. Generally linear ramp up and down is used, but "S" curve ramping is smoother. The auto tuning and parameter setting process may take a few hours including time spent reading and getting familiar with everything.

I forgot to mention earlier about password locking. It is really weak protection and is only meant to prevent somebody on the shop floor from diddling with the settings. Most, if not all inverters can be "reset to factory default" programming which also means clearing the password protection. My suggestion is to NOT have the unit locked with a password. It is not necessary in our situation unless you have a nosey friend who likes to fiddle with things.
 
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There is a ton of good videos on youtube about how VFD's work to even on how to diagnose and repair them for anyone that may be interested.
 
john lucas said:
Duane Not sure what your asking. Randy said they told him $499 from Powermatic. The Ebay ones were less but we don't know if they have been programmed properly for the Powermatic or if we can program them ourselves.
Click to expand...

Thanks, John. Yep that's what I asked. I did read that in your post, but when I went back, I was looking in Robert post! Actually for an oem replacement that's not as marked up as some I've seen.

Setup and programming should be fairly straight forward on a 3rd party VFD and many of the suppliers are quite knowledgeable and helpful that way. Ebay, though you would/could probably be pretty much on your own.
 
John,

I have the great depth of experience of having replace one controller.

Be sure you make a record of what the setting should be and know to which terminal the wires connect.
Also check the color codes of the wires. The colors on the wires may have faded.
I took a close up photo of the wires on the old controller where I could read the terminal designates.

A General 260vs. General put me in touch with a technician from RADWELL INTERNATIONAL
they helped me confirm a new controller was needed and they had a new in the box surplus controller at about half price $270???

The controller can even be hooked up to laptop.

To swap it out. I needed the settings on the old controller. General had these settings glued to the door of the controller box.
Also needed to know which wires went to which terminals.
I got a wiring diagram from General.

I took a close up photo of the wires on old controller and put a piece of tape on the "red" wire as it was not a color I would call red.

The terminals on both controllers had the same identifiers.
Once the new controller was in
I plugged in the lathe and stepped through the settings and made them match those that General had pasted on the door.
It worked great.
 
I had to replace my VFD on a PowerMatic 3520A a couple years ago. It took a bit of fact finding and self teaching. In the end I replaced the original Delta VFD with the now current replacement Delta (cost about $250 from a Delta supplier). With help from a great Delta tech and purchasing a computer interface from Delta (cost about $40, and if anyone needs it I'll be happy to lend), I downloaded the parameters from the old VFD to a laptop and uploaded them to the new VFD. Worked like a charm. No problems since.
 
Been too busy this morning to do any research. I've added 2 VFD to lathes I owned and programmed them with what little knowledge I have. Mostly ramp up and electronic braking. I had a guy call me over to his house. He had purchased a VFD for a 3 phase motor he had. I never could get that one to work. I don't know if it was defective or simply wasn't matched to the motor. That's why I'm little leary about helping my friend with an after market unit. If I was batting 3 for 3 I'd do it in a heart beat.
Bill I think he was going to call General INdustrial in Nashville to see if they had any more but I haven't talked to him this morning.
I have to stop playing and paint my bathroom and install the new flooring so no more turning and playing for a day or so.
 
My knees are dying and all I did was remove the commode (had to hacksaw through the bolts), and remove the vanity (had to hacksaw through the pipes and install caps) and remove the trim. That pretty much did my knees in for the evening. I'll patch the drywall and paint the room tomorrow. Probably won't have time to do the flooring until Monday.
Back to the inverter. I called Dealerselectric.com and they have a man who will counsel me on the inverter they sell that will work with the motor when I give him the specs. Unfortunately when he returned my call I was under the house shuting off the water (that's why my knees hurt) Anyway I'll get back with him on Monday.
 
digital photo's and other printouts

hockenbery said:
John,

I have the great depth of experience of having replace one controller.

Be sure you make a record of what the setting should be and know to which terminal the wires connect.
Also check the color codes of the wires. The colors on the wires may have faded.
I took a close up photo of the wires on the old controller where I could read the terminal designates.

A General 260vs. General put me in touch with a technician from RADWELL INTERNATIONAL
they helped me confirm a new controller was needed and they had a new in the box surplus controller at about half price $270???

The controller can even be hooked up to laptop.

To swap it out. I needed the settings on the old controller. General had these settings glued to the door of the controller box.
Also needed to know which wires went to which terminals.
I got a wiring diagram from General.

I took a close up photo of the wires on old controller and put a piece of tape on the "red" wire as it was not a color I would call red.

The terminals on both controllers had the same identifiers.
Once the new controller was in
I plugged in the lathe and stepped through the settings and made them match those that General had pasted on the door.
It worked great.
Click to expand...


Al,

The suggestion of photo's is a great one for this and pretty much any other project that is very involved. Aside from anything else bad replacement parts or other issues sometimes make a few hour job stretch to days or weeks. Some good clear photo's can often bail you out when that happens. Even things that are fairly simple when you take them apart and put them right back together can be confusing when a few weeks pass.

Hu
 
I got with www.dealerselectric.com this morning and talked to their rep. He says the N3-202-CS will work. It's totally enclosed and runs $231.00. My friend is going to order one in about a week or so and we will be trying to install it. Don't know what kind of issues we will run into mounting it but I'm sure we can jury rig something. Hope we don't run into issues programming it.

Taking a photo is a fantastic idea. I used to do that in camera repair. It was amazing how easy it was to remove a spring that looked like it would only go on one way and drive this lever. When you start to put it back together you find that it will fit 3 different ways and all look correct. So I got to the point where i would shoot a photo every so often and if I got into trouble I would develop the film. The negative would usually work to answer my question. Occasionally I would use polaroid but that stuff was expensive. If I didn't have any problems I would simply use up the rest of the roll on my usual photography and just not use those images.
 
I've also photographed things before and during taking something apart. It sure does make life easier. Last winter I disassembled a window air conditioner to clean out all of the gunk (mostly wood dust) and black mold due to the unit not having a drain. It was several months before I put it back together and without the pictures it woulds have been a major challenge.
 
Hal Taylor said:
I had to replace my VFD on a PowerMatic 3520A a couple years ago. It took a bit of fact finding and self teaching. In the end I replaced the original Delta VFD with the now current replacement Delta (cost about $250 from a Delta supplier). With help from a great Delta tech and purchasing a computer interface from Delta (cost about $40, and if anyone needs it I'll be happy to lend), I downloaded the parameters from the old VFD to a laptop and uploaded them to the new VFD. Worked like a charm. No problems since.
Click to expand...

Where does the computer interface plug in. I have a Delta VFD on my Jet lathe but I don't see anywhere to plug in a computer interface.
 
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