poplar tearout

[Gary Chapman]

I have tried it all. I keep sharpening my tools, speed up and slow down lathe, used 3/8 gouge and small skew tipped up as to cut rather than scrape and still nothing but tearout. I tried wetting it with thinned lacquer, thin varnish and thinner mixture, even sanding sealer but the yearout in the end grain is terrible. I have power sanded through all grits, reversed the lathe, reversed the power sander but just can't get rid of the tearout.
HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Can someone hit me up the side of my head and tell me what I can do????????

 

[Mark Warden]

Hi Gary do you have any way of posting a picture so we can see what is happening.Also you might want to get Bill Grumbine's videos he shows some techniques for dealing with tearout that really helped me. http://www.wonderfulwood.com/

 

[john lucas]

Is the wood Punky. I've had wood that will tearout no matter what technique I use but it usually pretty rotten or punky in those areas.
You didn't say if you were cutting with or against the grain.

 

[Gary Chapman]

It is tearing out when I cut against the grain. My bowls have two rough spots, where I am cutting against the grain especially inside the bowl.

 

[john lucas]

Gary try cutting in the opposite direction. When you are cutting inside a side grain bowl you will be cutting opposite the grain direction at 2 points during each revolution of the bowl. I find on some wood if I reverse the direction of the cut it will make these areas clean while giving some tearout in the 2 opposite corners of the bowl. Usually one direction or the other will give less tearout over all.
This is hard to explain but assume you are looking at a flat board with the grain horizontal. If you spin this board you will get tearout at 10 oclock and 4 oclock. This is where you are cutting against the grain. If you reverse the spin youwill get tearout at 2 oclock and 8 oclock. The same thing applies on the bowl but instead of reversing the direction cut from the bottom of the bowl out instead of lip toward the bottom. Do this very delicately in the area where you are having tearout problems.

 

[Barbara Gill]

When you say Poplar are you speaking of Tulip Poplar (not really a Poplar) or a true Poplar? There was a pretty good discussion on turning Cottonwood in the Newbie Forum.

I have found Tulip Poplar to be a very nice wood to turn.

 

[Gary Chapman]

When you say Poplar are you speaking of Tulip Poplar (not really a Poplar) or a true Poplar? There was a pretty good discussion on turning Cottonwood in the Newbie Forum.

I have found Tulip Poplar to be a very nice wood to turn.

I am pretty sure it is tulip poplar, tall, straight, hint of green and purple coloring, long grain, construction lumber,light weight but strong ,bweautiful except for my tearout.

 

[Gary Chapman]

Gary try cutting in the opposite direction. When you are cutting inside a side grain bowl you will be cutting opposite the grain direction at 2 points during each revolution of the bowl. I find on some wood if I reverse the direction of the cut it will make these areas clean while giving some tearout in the 2 opposite corners of the bowl. Usually one direction or the other will give less tearout over all.
This is hard to explain but assume you are looking at a flat board with the grain horizontal. If you spin this board you will get tearout at 10 oclock and 4 oclock. This is where you are cutting against the grain. If you reverse the spin youwill get tearout at 2 oclock and 8 oclock. The same thing applies on the bowl but instead of reversing the direction cut from the bottom of the bowl out instead of lip toward the bottom. Do this very delicately in the area where you are having tearout problems.

I will try going the opposite direction, I am sure my tools are sharp also. Thanks

 

[JRutten]

Two things

I want to reiterate what someone else said about Bill Grumbine's bowl turning video. The other thing and this may be the most difficult thing for you to do is to give up on that chunk of wood. I had a piece of sycamore that I tried everything on. I finally gave up and went back and turned a cherry bowl and it turned out wonderfully. As Kenny Rogers said "You've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

 

[john lucas]

If you decide not to give up on that piece, just give up on turning and sanding. Use a round cabinet scraper with the lathe shut off. You can scrape away the offending area and then blend the divot into the rest of the piece. You can feel it with your hands but you probably won't be able to see it when finished and nobody but a turner will ever know and I'll bet you'll fool most of them.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I will try going the opposite direction, I am sure my tools are sharp also. Thanks

Then, if your tool is still held as it was when you made the originals, you will create two new tearout areas in the opposite corners.

Think sideways slide. If you have the nose of the gouge up into the rotation, if your shavings are not shavings, but chips, and if they fly upward rather than collect on the tool and rest or drop, your technique will produce tearout. The wood will tell you how it prefers to be cut, just pay attention to it rather than chasing someone else's advice on regrinding or purchasing new tools.

This is partially punky birch, with all the twisted grain that the species is famous for, and a lot of hard/soft transitions. Look at the shavings. It's the wood saying "yes." http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Forged-Use-Shavings.jpg

Here's a look at the angle which produces a good shaving. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Forged-in-Use.jpg

The shavings don't lift, they flow.

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.flv

 

[Gary Chapman]

tearout

Then, if your tool is still held as it was when you made the originals, you will create two new tearout areas in the opposite corners.

Think sideways slide. If you have the nose of the gouge up into the rotation, if your shavings are not shavings, but chips, and if they fly upward rather than collect on the tool and rest or drop, your technique will produce tearout. The wood will tell you how it prefers to be cut, just pay attention to it rather than chasing someone else's advice on regrinding or purchasing new tools.

This is partially punky birch, with all the twisted grain that the species is famous for, and a lot of hard/soft transitions. Look at the shavings. It's the wood saying "yes." http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Forged-Use-Shavings.jpg

Here's a look at the angle which produces a good shaving. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Forged-in-Use.jpg

The shavings don't lift, they flow.

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.flv

Mike, thanks again for your help, just what I needed, a picture is worth a thousand words, I am going out to practice now. Thanks again

 

[Jay Coulson]

wow!

Watched a few of youy videos Michael. Very nice and informative. But!!!, It looked to me like, in one of the videos you were roughing a bowl profile with a spindle roughing gouge...maybe 3/4" or even an inch. I must admit that, I don't have that kind of courage. I use my roughing gouge for the obvious turning square spindles to round. NEVER, on bowls...never, never. Honestly, I've never even seen anyone do it. But, if it works for you, which it appears to do, great. I'm just not that brave.
J

Then, if your tool is still held as it was when you made the originals, you will create two new tearout areas in the opposite corners.

Think sideways slide. If you have the nose of the gouge up into the rotation, if your shavings are not shavings, but chips, and if they fly upward rather than collect on the tool and rest or drop, your technique will produce tearout. The wood will tell you how it prefers to be cut, just pay attention to it rather than chasing someone else's advice on regrinding or purchasing new tools.

This is partially punky birch, with all the twisted grain that the species is famous for, and a lot of hard/soft transitions. Look at the shavings. It's the wood saying "yes." http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Forged-Use-Shavings.jpg

Here's a look at the angle which produces a good shaving. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Forged-in-Use.jpg

The shavings don't lift, they flow.

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.flv

 

[MichaelMouse]

No challenge using a gouge in that manner. It was used that way for hundreds/thousands of years before the advent of cylindrical gouges, so all the mystery of how to do it should be gone. But only if you pay attention! The guy who badmouthed the gouge in print - it's an 1 1/4, BTW - has a video on the internet that shows him roughing a spindle with one. When you watch it, there's no mystery why he has trouble with the tool. He's not using it properly!

You work as you see fit to get the results which satisfy you. Be aware that there are alternatives if you haven't gotten where you want to be, and try them.

 

[Jay Coulson]

tearout

Gary, I'll say something that is surely a bit of heresy among turners but, it can solve the problem on a case by case only basis. First off, I am a firm believer that, every so often we are going to fix a piece of wood to the lathe that just will not behave! With sharp tools and good technique, you'll avoid a large percentage of the tear out problems. Good finishing cuts will leave you with very few problems. But, there exist patches of end-grain which you've described (they oppose each other on either the inside or the outside of your bowl--in this example) and, they just won't lay-down. The Bill Grumbine advice is definitely worthwhile to check out. But, even Bill admits that sometimes, you need to whip out the "80 grit gouge". I never go to 80 but, I will infrequently go to 100. Just stop the lathe, locate the trouble spots and, apply the 100 grit with elbow grease, only on the troublesome 2 spots. Some would argue that this will create a "dip or depression" at that location. Actually, the tear-out is usually pretty superficial and, doesn't take long to sand away. Then, turn on the lathe and sand as usual with the next grit...perhaps 120 to blend out the cross grain sanding you've done. Follow thru with your grits to maybe 400 and, you should be fine.
J