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Poof! Rikon 18” 10-340 bandsaw just died.

Alan Weinberg

Alan Weinberg

Joined
Feb 18, 2023
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Orange, CA
Bought it used. Has worked fine until today. Was cutting a piece of Osage orange and it died. Circuit flipped also, 220. Reset that and lathe worked but bandsaw still did not. Opened up motor to see if there was a fuse—just a capacitor—and out of stock with Rikon. Will call tomorrow. Similar problems on a thread on Sawmillcreek.

Thoughts?
 
First step is to determine if the problem is in the saw or the building wiring. If your lathe is working, try plugging it or some other 240v item into the receptacle that normally powers the saw.
 
Isaac Fisher said:
First step is to determine if the problem is in the saw or the building wiring. If your lathe is working, try plugging it or some other 240v item into the receptacle that normally powers the saw.
Click to expand...
Lathe works fine in the same 220 . . . and bandsaw won’t. Smelled nothing—in the other thread, some people did when their bandsaw went “poof.”
 
Does it trip the breaker every time, or just that first time? Any noise when you try to turn it on?
 
There might be a thermal overload reset button on the motor somewhere. Probably small and bright red if it’s there. Heavy work for long periods can trip it, and you’ll have to wait for the motor to cool down. If you can’t find a reset then something in the wiring probably burned up or shorted out. Plug, switch, and motor are all likely locations, probably in that order. If you feel comfortable digging inside you can probably identify and replace the faulty component.
 
No such button. Hadn’t done heavy work—had just started to round a square 3 inch thick piece of wood. I’m an electronics idiot but I think capacitor failure sounds likely.
 
I'm going to guess it's the capacitor. A lathe or grinder will run with a bad capacitor if you switch it on and give it a spin to start, but I would not recommend it with a saw.

Pull it out and take it to your local electronics supply place for a replacement. A heating and cooling shop would be another source.
 
Does it have door interlocks or other interlocking systems. Bandsaw often have a magnetic switch to turn it off if you lose power. I had to replace the main switch because that was the problem.
It could also be the start capacitor. It's easy to fond duplicates online.
 
As someone mentioned, when a capacitor fails there is often a smell (but not always). Also, without a starting capacitor the motor may hum but still run if you turn it by hand. (Dangerous with a bandsaw unless you are extremely careful or the blade is removed first, but I did that often with a couple of lathes that had failed capacitors.) Rikon was real quick to send out a capacitor when one failed a few years ago on my Rikon 18” bandsaw, and their price was reasonable (unlike Jet!) Note you can often find replacement capacitors locally if you have the specs (and the size - they are often inside a metal casing and one with the same electrical specs that’s just a bit tool large won’t work!)

My Rikon bandsaw quit a couple of years ago and a tiny bit of diagnostics identified the power switch had failed. Bought a new one from Amazon, came the next day. If handy with a multimeter you might identify the problem. If NOT familiar with electrical circuits, be very careful, or better, get an experience friend to come for a visit!

Don’t remember the model# of my Rikon so it might not fit, but your switch is bad this is the one I bought:

JKJ
 
It stopped during a cut or when you turned it on?

My experience with a bad start capacitor is usually the motor will try to turn but doesn't get up to speed.

I'd check the power cord and possibly dust in the switch.
 
I’m completely ignorant electrically. Had to babysit today so nothing got done. Will talk with nephew who is an electrician journeyman now—not sure how much he knows either. Maybe blind leading the blind.
 
If it stopped while cutting, then don't bother buying a capacitor, as that is not the problem. The capacitor is only in the circuit for a fraction of a second as the motor comes up to speed.

A simple test that tells you that the capacitor is bad is that the motor will hum when power is applied. If the breaker trips when you turn the bandsaw on, that is an indication that the motor is toast. If you open the motor and can smell ozone, that is confirmation that the motor is toast. If you don't smell anything, then the problem could be a seized bearing, which is a simple fix. If you can't turn the motor shaft, then a bearing has seized.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
I’m completely ignorant electrically. Had to babysit today so nothing got done. Will talk with nephew who is an electrician journeyman now—not sure how much he knows either. Maybe blind leading the blind.
Click to expand...

If I were closer I’d come and debug it.

One option is to locate and contact a local “makers” club. Those I’ve know were full of geeks who lived for electronics, mechanical, things and more. Many were so friendly and enthusiastic I can’t imagine someone not volunteering to come take a look.

JKJ
 
Club member Joe K. read of my plight and volunteered his expertise. We ended up taking off the motor from the bandsaw after checking the switch and wiring. I’ve ordered a new capacitor after talking to a machinist who said that since the motor shaft turns freely, it still could be the capacitor. Before he takes the motor apart to check it, he wanted me to try a new one. Grainger wanted $53 and Amazon is sending me one the correct size and settings for $13.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
Club member Joe K. read of my plight and volunteered his expertise. We ended up taking off the motor from the bandsaw after checking the switch and wiring. I’ve ordered a new capacitor after talking to a machinist who said that since the motor shaft turns freely, it still could be the capacitor. Before he takes the motor apart to check it, he wanted me to try a new one. Grainger wanted $53 and Amazon is sending me one the correct size and settings for $13.
Click to expand...

As I previously mentioned, there is a very simple test that only takes a couple of seconds to tell you if the capacitor is bad.
 
My MiniMax 16 bandsaw quit while running today, didn't trip the breaker, no bad electrical burning smell, no cutting going on. I had been dicing up quite a few green blanks, both ripping and crosscutting. I opened up the starter box to see if I could jump across the magnetic starter. Blew it out, pushed in the contacts and had no joy. Found an overload button, pressed it, and viola! There was a serious buildup of swarf around the lower wheel which may have been enough of a drag to trigger the overload switch. I need to cut a port in the frame to hook up the dust collector to the lower wheel as well as the lower guide area, and watch for buildup that can overload the motor. Crosscutting dust evacuates more easily than the stringy stuff from ripping, just as with a chainsaw. Crossing my fingers that I have identified the problem.

When I have a problem like this I try to figure it out with common sense and a multimeter. Single phase motors often poop out due to capacitor problems, but it usually happens on startup and gives off a stench and/or the capacitor is visibly deformed. Sometimes the starter gives out and that can be identified by connecting the line and motor leads with jumpers- be careful and get a qualified electrician if you are not comfortable with this procedure. I have a good electrical motor shop 1/2 hour away and when flummoxed I will pull the motor and take it to them- they can check capacitors and keep many in stock. I also know a couple of electricians experienced in controls and troubleshooting.

You can throw parts at the problem, but proper diagnosis is the starting point.
 
Last edited:
Kevin Jenness said:
There was a serious buildup of swarf around the lower wheel which may have been enough of a drag to trigger the overload switch. I need to cut a port in the frame to hook up the dust collector to the lower wheel as well as the lower guide area, and watch for buildup that can overload the motor.
Click to expand...

Kevin,
My 18” Rikon came with two dust collection ports, an angled one just below the lower guides and a port in the bottom of the lower cabinet. I often had buildup near and below the guides since the angled port was made with crossbars which caught long strings when ripping wet log sections. And the bottom of the lower cabinet still collected a lot of dust and had to be vacuumed out periodically.

In this thread I described how I fixed it - after cutting out the crossbars in the upper port I added a little box around the guides.
John K Jordan

Post in thread 'Bandsaw dust collection mods'

John Whitley said:
I'd been contemplating this first change for a while, then I think JKJ mentioned actually having done it.….This design isn't an enclosed box like some approaches posted here. I asked the seller about that regarding the pictured dust chute, since they make both open and enclosed box styles, and he replied that in his experience the open style functions at least as well.
Click to expand...

I’m sure that addition will make a big difference!

Besides removing obstructions from one of the ports which helped prevent clogging, I made a little box under under the bandsaw table which directs air past...
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The suction from the angled port pulls air past the guides and helps the upper port to remove it. Since much less dust makes it into the lower cabinet, the lower port is enough to remove all or almost all of the dust. I check it occasionally but there is usually nothing to clean out.

Standing wet log sections vertically and cutting down the grain does create some long strands, more with some species than others. Any buildup below the table is rare, but the clear plexiglas box lets me check at a glance and take care of it.

And as mentioned, the 4” flexible hose with a magnet lets me position a 3rd port on the top of the table and move it around as needed, especially helpful when making “skimming” cuts to clean up the sides of turning blanks. All three ports are connected to a 6” duct from the 5hp Clearvue cyclone.

dust_collection_bandsaw_IMG_7604.jpg

JKJ
 
Kevin Jenness said:
You can throw parts at the problem, but proper diagnosis is the starting point.
Click to expand...
I can safely and seamlessly/elegantly remove a kidney with no wasted motion in 45 minutes, but my electrical knowledge is zilch. So I listen to others and I have received conflicting suggestions in this thread from those with electrical experience. A capacitor is cheap and if that solves the problem, great. Switch seemed fine—no overload button. If capacitor switch out fails, it’s a fried motor.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
I can safely and seamlessly/elegantly remove a kidney with no wasted motion in 45 minutes, but my electrical knowledge is zilch. So I listen to others and I have received conflicting suggestions in this thread from those with electrical experience. A capacitor is cheap and if that solves the problem, great. Switch seemed fine—no overload button. If capacitor switch out fails, it’s a fried motor.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Have you tested the starter and any other switches in the system? (door safety switch for instance)?
 
Alan Weinberg said:
Bought it used. Has worked fine until today. Was cutting a piece of Osage orange and it died. Circuit flipped also, 220. Reset that and lathe worked but bandsaw still did not. Opened up motor to see if there was a fuse—just a capacitor—and out of stock with Rikon. Will call tomorrow. Similar problems on a thread on Sawmillcreek.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
When the motor starts, a centrifugal switch disconnects the starting capacitor. It cannot be a factor in the problem.
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
When the motor starts, a centrifugal switch disconnects the starting capacitor. It cannot be a factor in the problem.
Click to expand...

If the motor is Asian-made, then often the centrifugal switch is held in place with a soft metal setscrew digging into soft metal. These setscrews can loosen over time and use allowing the centrifugal switch assembly to slide away from holding the contacts open. This results in both the starting windings and the run windings both being under power. The result is a burned out motor.

With all electrical problems, the cause can be little more than a loose wire to a burned out motor.

tpos motor - 1.jpg
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Well Bob, it looks like things have been degrading since I took my electrical engineering courses on motors 70 years ago!
Click to expand...

Be glad you've not had to delve into Asian-made motors. "Degrading" is a very tactful and generous descriptor.
A Grizzly motor is the worst I'd seen. Balancing screws were driven into the rotor with a hammer.
I could go on and on.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
No hum. No anything.
Click to expand...
That is interesting about the centrifugal switch on Asian motors. About thirty years ago, I bought a bandsaw and a drill press made in Taiwan. The motors on those two machines are very well built. However, regardless of the centrifugal switch failing to open, the capacitor is not a factor once the motor is running.

However, if the centrifugal switch fails to open, that could be the cause of the motor failing. The start winding on this type of induction motor is a lighter gauge than the run winding. Under normal conditions, the lighter gauge start winding isn't an issue since it is in the circuit for less than one second. Even several seconds shouldn't be a problem, but not continuously.

If the start winding fails, you can still get the motor running by "hand propping" it. If hand propping doesn't work, it could mean that the run winding is burned out. That could happen if the motor is stalled for over a few seconds. When the motor is stalled, it draws the locked rotor current, which is much greater than the full load current. Sometimes, the locked rotor current is shown on the nameplate. It might be listed as LRC.
 
Very often when the motor stops while running, the switch contacts have given up the ghost. I've seen this a lot with Asian-made motor starters.
The below contacts came from a starter that was "rated" for 3 HP @ 240 volts. They were from a table saw that simply stopped running in the middle of a light cut. To me it looks like something from the Dollar Store. At the bottom of the photo is a contact from a NEMA rated starter that is rated for 3 HP.

There's a good probability that Alan's band saw problem may come from corroded contacts in the switch (aka: motor starter).


tpos switch - 1.jpg
 
Bob Vaughan said:
Very often when the motor stops while running, the switch contacts have given up the ghost. I've seen this a lot with Asian-made motor starters.
The below contacts came from a starter that was "rated" for 3 HP @ 240 volts. They were from a table saw that simply stopped running in the middle of a light cut. To me it looks like something from the Dollar Store. At the bottom of the photo is a contact from a NEMA rated starter that is rated for 3 HP.

There's a good probability that Alan's band saw problem may come from corroded contacts in the switch (aka: motor starter).


View attachment 74524
Click to expand...

I’ve seen that many times in several lathes, a drill press, my own 5hp air compressor, and even wall switches, and I’ve fixed or replace a number. With high amperage sometimes the problem can start with a bit of resistance and arcing from oxidation which can snowball, especially in a moderately humid environment. I use dielectric grease on switch contacts and connectors, etc, to help protect from oxidation - it’s “sticky” so have to make sure the switch is protected from dust contamination!.

But as you imply, it’s a shame when contacts are not rated properly. One example was a wall I ordered for 5hp air compressor - was advertised as rated for 5hp but when it came the box stated “not for motor use”. Really?!

But, Alan said in an earlier post that the switch seemed fine, and he had a person experienced in electrical things come and check out the saw. I assume he tested thoroughly.

JKJ
 
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