Platter form and proportion

[Douglas Ladendorf]

I've turned exactly one plate before, but I'm now preparing to turn platters for my brother and sister to commemorate and celebrate our dad who passed away last year. I'm doing a bit of research to solidify my design ideas and I thought I would ping the hundreds of years of collective experience here. I'm thinking a wide brim platter, but what proportion is the brim and foot? I'd appreciate any input, examples, links etc. My dad's favorite color was red so maybe padauk or bloodwood (possibly cherry).

Thanks, Doug

 

[Odie]

I've turned exactly one plate before, but I'm now preparing to turn platters for my brother and sister to commemorate and celebrate our dad who passed away last year. I'm doing a bit of research to solidify my design ideas and I thought I would ping the hundreds of years of collective experience here. I'm thinking a wide brim platter, but what proportion is the brim and foot? I'd appreciate any input, examples, links etc. My dad's favorite color was red so maybe padauk or bloodwood (possibly cherry).

Thanks, Doug

Doug......

I've had very bad experience with bloodwood fading quickly to a muddy brown. I don't intend to buy any more bloodwood at all. Padauk will also fade, but not nearly as much as bloodwood. Padauk is a good red colored wood that will keep much of the red-ish coloring.......but, I've heard others say it will also fade to a brown color. Maybe I've just been lucky with Paduk.

Cherry is stable, but not much redness there.......

Here are a couple of examples of Padauk, and Burmese rosewood. The first one on the left was completed recently, so it could end up fading. The one in the middle was completed about 6 months ago......from a board that was in my storage pile for at least 20 years. I don't think it's likely to fade very much. The one in the middle is more like a platter.....made from a board that was only 3/4" thick. The one on the right is Burma Rosewood......and, I have no idea if it's redness is stable, being this is the only one I've ever done in this species. It was completed within the last several months.

ko

 

[Odie]

Here is a bloodwood bowl that I sold last year. I was shocked when I took it out of storage and saw that the redness was almost completely gone. It was only a few months since I made it, and it was kept wrapped in a plastic bag in a dark storage closet. I explained this to my customer, and she declined to proceed with the sale. I ended up giving it away to a lady friend where I was working at the time. I've done several more bloodwood bowls in the past, and can't remember where they went, off hand. They likely became a muddy brown, too......

It's a very nice pleasing red color.......but, it won't last.

ko

 

[John K Jordan]

I've turned exactly one plate before, but I'm now preparing to turn platters for my brother and sister to commemorate and celebrate our dad who passed away last year. I'm doing a bit of research to solidify my design ideas and I thought I would ping the hundreds of years of collective experience here. I'm thinking a wide brim platter, but what proportion is the brim and foot?

The real answer is "whatever proportions you like" but is sure is easier to get some ideas before you decide! Some people insist on "rules" for various proportions but IMO that's hogwash - I ignore those and make things so they look right to me.

I've done a few platters, here is a pair made of sapele (sometimes called sapele mahogany):



The larger one is 18.5" with an 8" wide foot.
The smaller one is 14" with the foot about 6".
Since I made them as a pair for my wife, I decided to make the brims the same - they are about 2-1/4" wide.
The tops are about 1-3/4" from the table - made from 2" slabs.

I think this platter is about 19", also made of sapele.
I don't know the foot or rim size since someone else has it but it would be easy to measure from the picture.



For something completely different, I've made a number of these for gifts and they are always well liked. Some are flatter on top and a little shorter and might be called platters and some are more deeply dished and might be called shallow bowls. I make them about 10" at the widest points, the foot is just over 4" wide, and the top is about 1.5" from the table. (made from 2" stock)



JKJ

 

[John K Jordan]

I've had very bad experience with bloodwood fading quickly to a muddy brown.

From the experts: if you want a wood to keep it's color, use dye!

JKJ

 

[Odie]

From the experts: if you want a wood to keep it's color, use dye!

JKJ

Hi John.......

The problem with dye, is it looks artificial. Regardless, I've seen some dyes that do look pretty good. I guess it all depends on what any individual finds appealing.

ko

 

[hockenbery]

I've turned exactly one plate before, but I'm now preparing to turn platters for my brother and sister to commemorate and celebrate our dad who passed away last year. I'm doing a bit of research to solidify my design ideas and I thought I would ping the hundreds of years of collective experience here. I'm thinking a wide brim platter, but what proportion is the brim and foot? I'd appreciate any input, examples, links etc. My dad's favorite color was red so maybe padauk or bloodwood (possibly cherry). Thanks, Doug

Cherry would be my first choice, especially if the platter might be used for food.
Also available in platter sized boards 14" + and 6/4 thick.
Generally cherry's color improves with with age to a reddish brown.
First turned it I often a lighter color almost sandy brown but darken in a favorable way.

The padauk I've turned gets darker with exposure to light.
To me padauk looks great through all its color changes.
When first turned it is bright orange/red. Then become a dark red and eventually almost black.
I have used paduk for lots of ornament finials and the color changes look great to me.
The photo below was taken about 3 years after the ornament with padauk finials and a box elder ball was turned.
Ball was bleached. On display about a month each year the red in the box elder has faded a bit and the padauk became quite dark.

You can use poplar or maple and a red dye...
Al

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Wow, if mine comes out half as good as the beautiful work above I will be thrilled! I appreciate hearing your experiences with these woods as well.

You can use poplar or maple and a red dye...

I hadn't considered that but it's a good option, thanks.

Doug

 

[Justin Stephen]

Platters with embellished rims is pretty much all I have been turning for the past several months. I have settled on rim widths that are about 1/3" of the radius of the total piece as the ideal ratio for me, but I could see going a little bit less if you didn't need the real estate to fit whatever embellishment you are adding. For my "beadweaving illusion" pieces, real estate is kind of critical. That said, I have done some pieces that exceeded the 1/3 ratio and have ultimately decided that this is too much for a platter that you still want people to have the option to actually use as a platter as supposed to only "using" it for display. It is worth noting that my embellishment also pretty much eliminates the look of the wood itself through beading and coloring so I want a sizable bowl portion of the platter to be present since the wood itself is supposed to be a "co-star" in the piece. If you are not embellishing the rim or are using something that doesn't detract as much from the look of the wood (such as a dye that still allows the grain to show through), you might also be more comfortable with a wider rim.

If you look on my website, my two recent pieces have rims that are wider than the 1/3 ratio and, honestly, I don't like the look nearly as much as some of the pieces before that where I kept it at or just under 1/3. They don't exceed 1/3 by a lot, but it is just enough that it detracts from how much I enjoy looking at them. I am being more diligent about maintaining the ratio on future pieces.

The larger one is 18.5" with an 8" wide foot.
The smaller one is 14" with the foot about 6".

When it comes to the size of the foot, I use John's "whatever proportions you like" method, but I think the numbers he quoted above sound about right. I am finishing up one 14" cherry platter right now and have another one that just came off the lathe and both have a foot that is right around 6", perhaps just slightly more. I used Oneway #3 jaws on both at about minimum expansion (~5 1/2") inside what eventually became the foot and left about 1/2" or so on either side, so about 6 1/2" total. There is a delicate line between a platter that is too wobbly and one where the foot is visually too chunky. Somewhere in the middle ground between 1/3 the diameter and 1/2 the diameter seems to be my happy place.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

color red

Probably the best way to get the color is dye. As Al said cherry is very good for platters. The color in cherry is all over the map from white (sapwood ) to bright red to dark chocolate. The problem with all colored woods is they do not stay that way "forever". You can aid the process in cherry by using a seal coat of garnet (red) shellac. This still does not totaly stop the change but will considerably slow it. I have a side table I made 14 years ago and is still a fairly bright red. This pierce is finished in shellac so there are several coats on it and I do not know what the relationship to color is from amount of finish.

 

[john lucas]

Padauk starts out almost orange but turns @ pretty dark brown. You might look at Red Heart. It stays fairly red. I like dyeing maple but dont use straight red. Mix a tiny bit of brown with it to knock the brightnes down.
My favorite red wood is Mahagony that i color with my special blend. I dye it with straight red dye and then i rub it down completely with Brown shoe polish. It leaves it a beautiful burgundy color. If its too burgundy rub it lightly with a rag and mjneral spirits.

 

[chrisdaniels]

I have been wanting to do some platters lately and here's a question on the subject. I know you normally turn them from dry stock, but do you rough turn them and let them sit for a couple days before finishing them or just go all the way? There is going to be some movement no matter what even with dried stock but i'm just wondering what to expect trying it.

 

[robo hippy]

The only real design criteria I use for plats and platters is that I like an almost vertical rim near the edge. This is so I don't chase food off the plate trying to scoop up that last little bit. You need an edge. Generally I use a bigger base, 1/2 the diameter or more, on them than I do on bowls. I try to design to the piece of wood, rather than cutting a piece of wood to make a design.

robo hippy

 

[John K Jordan]

...do you rough turn them and let them sit for a couple days before finishing them or just go all the way? There is going to be some movement no matter what even with dried stock but i'm just wondering what to expect trying it.

Most of the wood I use is air dried. I have never had a platter warp, at least not enough to notice when set on a flat surface. I usually turn in one "sitting" and apply finish right away. Perhaps the finish helps to minimize movement. Or maybe I've been lucky.

One thing - platter stock us usually from a wide slab and often cut close to the center of the tree and therefore could be considered quartersawn. That might make it warp less, at least in a noticeable way.

All this talk about platters makes me want to make some more! I've been saving some very wide slabs of eastern red cedar, walnut, cherry, and sapele just for platters.

JKJ

 

[Justin Stephen]

I have been wanting to do some platters lately and here's a question on the subject. I know you normally turn them from dry stock, but do you rough turn them and let them sit for a couple days before finishing them or just go all the way? There is going to be some movement no matter what even with dried stock but i'm just wondering what to expect trying it.

I turn from kiln-dried 8/4 normally and turn them all the way. I do a lot of off-lathe work so a fair amount of time goes by before I put finish on and I do sometimes find that the piece may have moved very, very slightly after a few days, but not enough for your typical person to notice. You should generally be able to turn it all in one session. Kind of depends on where I buy the wood from also. There is one guy I sometimes buy from who runs his own sawmill and claims that his wood is kiln-dried, but he also stores it outside so I always let his boards sit in my shop for a couple of months before I touch them.

 

[Joe Greiner]

Plus 1 for Cherry

Cherry generally becomes redder with exposure to sunlight, even indirect. You can accelerate the transition, almost immediate, by coating with a weak lye solution or Easy-Off oven cleaner - both alkaline. Then neutralize with vinegar (acidic) and wash with water.

Joe

 

[Charlie Knighton]

i have a piece of cherry moulding on a mantle...the cherry is mostly one color but has two sections of lighter wood.....the lighter wood is not like sapwood, but could be from the very edge of the sapwood?????????.....it has darken from the initial oiling....will the color every merge so it is not noticeable???????????

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

i have a piece of cherry moulding on a mantle...the cherry is mostly one color but has two sections of lighter wood.....the lighter wood is not like sapwood, but could be from the very edge of the sapwood?????????.....it has darken from the initial oiling....will the color every merge so it is not noticeable???????????

It will darken some. There is no garuntee that the color will be even. For this reason I use garnet shellac as a base to even out this color difference. Even though you pick boards that look the same in color or cut 2 pieces from the same length of board there still may be a mismatch when the piece darkens.

 

[hockenbery]

i have a piece of cherry moulding on a mantle...the cherry is mostly one color but has two sections of lighter wood.....the lighter wood is not like sapwood, but could be from the very edge of the sapwood?????????.....it has darken from the initial oiling....will the color every merge so it is not noticeable???????????

I would say no to the merging color but it may be less noticeable.
What you whack is likely part of the sapwood if the two light spots are toward the outside of the tree.
If it is crotch figure there can be sapwood in all sorts of places.
The transition from heartwood to sapwood is usually fairly thin but a turning can expose it as a wide area.
Sapwood in cherry is white for a few days to week or so after the tree is cut. Freezing keeps it white a long time for wood stored outside in the north.
So any blank left for a while will have darker sapwood. Often sort of a gray. The sapwood can also get stained a bit from the heartwood water when turning.

You light spots could be from some sort of damage to the tree.

Got a picture?

Al

 

[Steve Worcester]

I haven't found any of the aforementioned woods to retain their color, redheart, Paduak, bloodwood, eventually they will all turn generally brown. I have had better luck with Bloodwood than the others, but generally there are far more than one species and you never know what you are going to get.

Personally, die it. If he liked red, no one said it had to be naturally that color. In fact you can get it whatever color you want at that point. But understand, whatever color you start with is part of the mix too on the color wheel.

Rim proportion, I would say 1/3 or less of the overall. Being at the outside, 1/3 can be too much real estate sometimes.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

You light spots could be from some sort of damage to the tree.

Got a picture?

I took a class through local cc, instructor Burr Fox.......he has been messing with stuff all his life....I was very happy to make it but Burr should get all of the credit ....I did know how to sand it...being cherry sanding was fairly simple

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Update, I decided to go with Paduk. Got time yesterday and turned one of them. I'm mostly pleased with how it turned out. Blank was about 11-5/8" square by 2".



My daughter took an action shot...



I'm afraid this is the extent of my photo capabilities.





Since this is in memory of our dad I added a coin in the bottom. He flew B-17s in WWII.



Doug

 

[Hy Tran]

Ooh, that's nice! Love the touch with the B17 coin; love the subtle ogee across the bottom and top shape.

Padauk is a lovely wood.