Photo booth

[Charles Brooks]

At 2015 SWAT Waco, TX, a national demonstrator had dual box light boxes set up for photos. I did not have time for his demo. Is there anyone that may know who I'm referring to?

 

[Paul Millo]

Doug Baldwin......http://photolightboxes.com/

 

[john lucas]

They are often called soft boxes and you can find them at a lot of photo supply houses. Prices vary widely so do some research. I buy a lot of things from http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ Also do a search on Amazon. Quite a few there.

 

[Bill Boehme]

There were two demonstrators presenting photography topics. After reading Doug Baldwin's notes in the handout, I wasn't impressed with either his lighting techniques nor his Photoshopping. His lighting result in a flat image because of the lack of shadows and then in Photoshop, he creates some really silly looking fake shadows. He is a good photographer, but I just didn't care for his techniques for woodturning photography. The lighting technique might be good for some other types of product photography, but the Photoshopping was definitely not professional. The other demonstrator, Ed Kelle, had a lot of good ideas to present, but the problem with his program was that he tried to cram way too much information into the allotted time. It also meant that he didn't allow enough time to convey enough important information on any of the topics. The bottom line was that there wasn't much useful information. People glazed over and bailed early. I stayed until it was time to go to lunch and he kept on going past his time slot. Doing a demo isn't easy and I would hate to try it myself. I imagine that I would be a lot worse than that.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Thanks, Bill, for the run-down. Here's something I was just looking at: the AAW's recommendations on photography for the American Woodturner.

Scroll down a little in the link above, and look for the heading Photography. There's a pdf by Ed Keele and Bob Hawkes.

There sure are a lot of inspirational photos in the American Woodturner, and in the member galleries here in the forum.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks, Bill, for the run-down. Here's something I was just looking at: the AAW's recommendations on photography for the American Woodturner.

Scroll down a little in the link above, and look for the heading Photography. There's a pdf by Ed Keele and Bob Hawkes.

There sure are a lot of inspirational photos in the American Woodturner, and in the member galleries here in the forum.

Ed Kelle shows basically the photography set up that Jamie Donaldson demonstrated at SWAT a number of years ago. He called it "the Phrugal Photographer". Ed and Bob definitely present excellent photography techniques in the article. In his SWAT program he should have narrowed the scope so that he wasn't overwhelming the audience with a fire hose when all they wanted was a sip.

 

[john lucas]

I love Jamie he's a good friend and good photographer. However disagree on his photo booth. With his booth there isn't any way to really adjust the light for problem pieces. I Photographed art work professionally for 26 years. What I suggest is to do away with the photo booth idea. One soft box and a large reflector will do most of what you need to do. I've done at least one if not more articles for American Woodturner. Do a search of the magazine if your member and you will probably find it. Most people make shooting work too difficult and as Bil said too flat. Using 2 lights that are identical from both sides not only gives you a flat look it also produces 2 shadows. So then everyone went to photo booths or light tents which completely cover the piece. Then they add 2 o 3 or 4 lights to make the light really even which makes the piece look even flatter. Let me make something perfectly clear. To show 3 dimensionality in a photograph which reduces it to 2 dimensions you must have shadows and highlights. The trick is controlling both so the piece looks natural.
What I suggest is buy one soft box about 2x3 feet in size. Set it on a stand so it's easily adjustable. You have to be able to move it up and down and side to side. Adjust this light until your piece has good shape and the hightlight isn't too objectionable. then add a large white reflector to the other side. Adjust this to fill in the shadows. Most of the time that's all you need. Positioning the lights can be critical to a good photo. What I offer and only a few take me up on it, is to shoot the piece of work. If your having trouble getting a good shot back off and take a photo of your whole set up so I can see the type of lights and their position. Then send me that photo and the photo of the piece showing the problem. I can usually solve the problem. Just send it to johnclucas45@gmail.com
Just another tip for those that are more serious about their photography. Small lights produce hard shadows and small highlights. Large lights produce soft shadows and a softer larger highlight. If your work has lots of fine texture then a smaller light may be in order. Try something about a foot in diameter for your main light. same is true for really glossy work where the large light produces a very large obnoxious highlight.
I know a lot of people praise photoshop and most of the questions I get when I teach are about how to do this or that in photo shop. If you light the piece properly photoshop is only used to size, do minor retouching, and maybe some minor contrast improvement. Spend your time learning to shoot instead of wasting it trying figure out ways to solve the lighting problems in photoshop.

 

[Justin Stephen]

They are often called soft boxes and you can find them at a lot of photo supply houses. Prices vary widely so do some research. I buy a lot of things from http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ Also do a search on Amazon. Quite a few there.

You ever been to the actual store in NYC? It's kind of amazing. 🙂 It is just down the street from Penn Station so the wife and I stop in sometimes when we are taking Amtrak into the city. They even have a luggage check, which is convenient. Alas, they are closed Saturdays (Orthodox Jewish business), which is sometimes inconvenient.

 

[John Torchick]

I frequent a forum where some have made their own photo tents from cheesecloth, PVC pipe, and two or three clip on lights to control shadows. I'll see if I can find a link for you. However, Mr. Lucas is a professional and I would trust his recommendations.

http://www.wikihow.com/Create-an-Inexpensive-Photography-Lightbox

 

[Dave Fritz]

John,

What do you recommend for a background sweep?

Excellent information.

Dave Fritz

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Taking Pictures

I'm a hands on type of guy. I really would like to see what you are describing John Lucas, in a short you tube video. I guarantee it will have thousands of views and likes...
I made my own fishing charter website www.waiopai.com and now I'm starting to work on my new woodturning web site, hence my interest in good quality photos...
Are there any videos that you know of describing a simple solution, close to what you recommend. I was just going to build something, your advice came with perfect timing... Why reinvent the wheel right? I will check the AAW articles too, thank you for the advice.
Not sure why, but the forum replies emails notices go to my junk folder, even after I rescued them from there... Aloha everyone..

 

[john lucas]

Well I'm not a video person. I have done a few but it's always a hassle to figure out how to download and edit them. I'm a still photographer and my specialty was lighting. I may do one some day but it's a low priority right now. It would take me the better part of a day with lots of cursing at the computer and I don't have time for that now.
John I have made photo booths out of white nylon and PVC. I still have a bunch from when I was teaching how to photograph art work. Photo booths are really handy for jewelry and some other items. They aren't terrible for wood. If you put 3 panels together 2 on the sides and one on top and then light it with one light hitting the top and one side then you don't have a terrible light set up. Where most people screw up is using those 2 little point source lights on both sides with stands that are too short. It creates a terrible light for wood turnings. If that's all you have move one of the lights further away and mount the other light on a box or something to get it up higher. This creates a more natural look.
For backgrounds for artwork I prefer something plain. You want all the focus to be on the artwork, not on the background. I use either white or gray seamless paper backgrounds you buy from photo stores. I do have a roll of white paper I bought from Lowes. Not sure what it's used for. It's too thin and will show colors through it but if you put 2 layers it works well. I will also use what we call a Graduated background that you can also get from photo stores. They fade from white to gray or gray to black or white to black. They do look nice but they scratch really easily. If you put a piece on there and then rotate it to get a better angle you just scratched the background. After a few pieces you have all sorts of scratches and unless you pretty good with Photoshop they look terrible in the photo. You can easily get a fade look with lighting by simply holding a piece of cardboard between the light and background and casting a shadow on the background. This usually requires having the background further away from the object which is another reason I don't use the fully enclosed light tents. Mine have 3 panels, one on top and 2 on the sides.

 

[Justin Stephen]

Photo booths are really handy for jewelry and some other items. They aren't terrible for wood. If you put 3 panels together 2 on the sides and one on top and then light it with one light hitting the top and one side then you don't have a terrible light set up. Where most people screw up is using those 2 little point source lights on both sides with stands that are too short. It creates a terrible light for wood turnings. If that's all you have move one of the lights further away and mount the other light on a box or something to get it up higher. This creates a more natural look.

If you look at the photos in my gallery, they were taken with exactly the technique that John describes here. They are a substantial improvement over the casual "put it on the kitchen counter and take a picture of it with my phone" technique, but they aren't wonderful either. Alas, I don't have room for the setup I'd really like, which would be 2-3 large softboxes on tall, adjustable stands. Right now, my tent is sitting on the bed in our spare bedroom, and you can see the resulting unevenness pretty clearly in the most recent photo especially. The background is a graduated dark grey to white Flutone background like what John described.

 

[Bill Boehme]

What to leave in, What to leave out . . .

John,

Excellent information. I've never used a light tent because I didn't care for the uniform lighting. There's too much fiddling around involved to try to give the piece depth. During the demo that Jamie did at SWAT a number of years ago, I mentioned some of my concerns about the Phrugal Photographer set up such as reduced contrast, but he dismissed my questions and said that all that can be taken care of by using light modifiers (white cards, black cards, and foil covered cards) placed judiciously. I agree that helped a lot, but overall i could still see the effect which I would describe as a massive softbox being reflected by the turning. I think that light tents might be better for certain other types of product photography such as jewelry where the goal is lots of bright sparkle and no significant shadows.

I have been using Photoshop since the mid 1990's so I have been immersed in it long before it was a significant photography tool. I lump its use into four main categories: Graphics Art, Photography, Scientific (using Photoshop Extended interfaced with MATLAB), and fumbling around. From what I have seen the last category seems to be the predominant use of Photoshop and likely the reason that is often disparaged as a photo editing tool. Most of the "creative" tools are there for the graphics artists, but many can also be used in photo post processing ... if used with great discretion. The trouble is that these tools are usually used like a sledgehammer where a tack hammer would be the right tool. As a photo editing tool, I agree with John. Tonal adjustments, slight color correction, a bit of sharpening, noise filtering, color profile conversion, resizing, and printing should be the limit of most photo editing. It is far too easy to get carried away and allow the photo to become a showcase for how untastefully one can use Photoshop. As John said, get it right in the camera! There is no substitute for good photography. Fixing a photo after the fact is like using training wheels or carbide scrapers ... they can be used, but skill works better.

I really like John's one light suggestion. Before that I was using two lights shooting into umbrellas ... one higher and close and the other lower and further away with a graduated dark gray background (Flotone Thunder Gray from B&H). I still don't have a softbox so I substituted shooting through a translucent umbrella and using a piece of foamboard as a reflector on the other side. It gave me a lot more control over giving depth to the pieces. Of course I can see the ugly umbrella in a shiny turning. A rectangular softbox would look much better. The one-light idea also cut my cost in 500 watt hot lights which have a life of only six hours and cost around $15 ... it's still a lot cheaper than high powered studio type strobes ... and tungsten lights are WYSIWYG.

John, I found some 300 watt equivalent CFLs at the hardware store. I wonder how they might work in a softbox. Any thoughts?

 

[john lucas]

Not sure about the 300 watt cfl. I am using pretty large one in my soft box. Can't remember the wattage right now. It only produces enough heat to be uncomfortable to the touch after being on for quite a while. Way below catching anything on fire. My biggest concern with most CFL's is simply being some sort of color correct. I find many don't have a full spectrum and put considerable color casts on things. I bought my CFL's from Alzo.com. their lights were the closest to 5500K and a color index of 92 or higher. Still they are slightly green but it's close enough to use as is for most things and only takes about 7 magenta to correct it.
For those interested here is the photo tent that I use occasionally for some things. Notice the grid on the light. It's made from toilet paper tubes. This narrows the light enough to give me some control so I can get more contrast (read that as shadows and highlights) with the light tent.

 

[john lucas]

I found a couple of photos from the article I wrote on simple photo techniques. The first is just using a window and a reflector. this is what I used to use before I got any kind of lighting for my home shooting. The second is the same thing using a panel and one light. This simulates using a soft box but is much less expensive. The difference between this and the softbox is that you have light spilling all over around the panel so it's harder to control the light. The soft box contains most of the light.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Thanks, John! Much appreciated on all the advice.

For those who want to find the article John mentioned: it's Issue 17.2 pages 38–39

You can log-in (assuming you're an AAW member) to view the archived article here: http://www.woodturner.org/Login.aspx

 

[Bill Boehme]

Here is a picture showing how I use an XRite Passport to create a custom profile for the specific lighting conditions for a shooting session. The lighting is different for each lighting set up so I create a custom profile every time. It's all automated so the only work is setting the color patch cards in the shot.



And, here is a shot using the custom color profile for color correction. This shot uses only a single light shooting through an umbrella instead of a softbox. Notice that you can see the umbrella in this very high gloss piece. The reflection of the foamboard that I'm using as a bounce card on the other side can barely be seen unless you know what to look for. The Flotone graduated background is placed to create a "sweep" ... it starts level and at the top it is swept back about 45°. The top edge of the background is almost 3 feet behind the piece.




I wish that I had a dedicated place where I could leave all of this lighting paraphernalia set up.

And, finally a shot from several years ago showing how an image looked with my old two hot lights shooting into umbrellas. The bowl looks two-dimensional and lifeless although it's not the worst that I've done.



The jar and the bowl are both mesquite.

 

[Gretch Flo]

Here is a picture showing how I use an XRite Passport to create a custom profile for the specific lighting conditions for a shooting session. The lighting is different for each lighting set up so I create a custom profile every time. It's all automated so the only work is setting the color patch cards in the shot.

View attachment 9203

And, here is a shot using the custom color profile for color correction. This shot uses only a single light shooting through an umbrella instead of a softbox. Notice that you can see the umbrella in this very high gloss piece. The reflection of the foamboard that I'm using as a bounce card on the other side can barely be seen unless you know what to look for. The Flotone graduated background is placed to create a "sweep" ... it starts level and at the top it is swept back about 45°. The top edge of the background is almost 3 feet behind the piece.

View attachment 9204


I wish that I had a dedicated place where I could leave all of this lighting paraphernalia set up.

And, finally a shot from several years ago showing how an image looked with my old two hot lights shooting into umbrellas. The bowl looks two-dimensional and lifeless although it's not the worst that I've done.

View attachment 9205

The jar and the bowl are both mesquite.

So Bill, what are the white lines that are on shoulders and go into the interior some going down the magnificent jar????? Gretch

 

[Bill Boehme]

So Bill, what are the white lines that are on shoulders and go into the interior some going down the magnificent jar????? Gretch

I didn't notice that until I was post processing the images and I didn't have enough to time to re-do them before the exhibit. I puzzled over that for quite a while. I remembered one thing that John Lucas mentioned a while back is that photographing a shiny turning is, in one respect, a lot like photographing a curved mirror which means that you will see a reflection of everything in the room in the turning. In this case the background paper (it's actually a sheet of plastic) has a white border about 3/4" wide all the away around. And that is what we see reflected from the shiny surface.

I haven't done it yet, but I need to take a pair of scissors to the background paper and get rid if that border. This is a good example to show why the room needs to be dark and not have any light colored objects that will be reflected by the "mirror". This also explains why all photography equipment is matte black. I also think that using John's snoot (light fixture, not his nose) with a TP grid might be a good idea for lighting a shiny object like this. I think that John has mentioned many times that you do not want to eliminate reflections in shiny objects, but at the same time you want to clearly see the object without also seeing everything else in the room.

 

[john lucas]

Bill You are exactly right. I was going to say either a white boarder or possibly white supports to the background. When I shoot dark object on a dark background I have often put a piece of gray paper outside the image area but close enough that you see the reflection on the outed edges of the piece. Gives it separation from the background without looking too obnoxious.
What I've done when forced to use umbrellas is to go in photoshop and clone over the umbrella support bars with pieces of the white fabric. Then it looks more like a large softbox. When we had to do portraits on location we would sometimes take the umbrellas instead of the softboxes to cut down on the size of the equipment we had to carry. I never liked the umbrella spars to show up in the models eyes so I just retouched it out. I know I talk about not using photo shop but sometimes it's either necessary or it's faster to do it in photoshop that it is to spend another 30 minutes fiddling with the lighting. A good example is lighting some glass with a big softbox. Sometimes that's just the light that is needed to make most of the curved surfaces look right. However it often leaves a very big specular highlight somewhere you don't want. Well you can spend a good while masking off the softbox to make it smaller and then shifting it a zillion times to get the reflections where you want them, or you can go in photoshop and use various techniques such as cloning or patch tool etc to simply make that reflection smaller in the final image. It's a time constraint thing that I used to use. Since we billed customers by the hour for the shoot and not for the retouching I had to decide whether it was worth my time.

 

[john lucas]

I just remembered I have a PDF of the article on simple lighting techniques. If anyone wants it write me at johnclucas45@gmail.com Also like I mentioned above if your having trouble send me a photo of your set up and a close up showing the piece and the problem and I can probably figure out how to help.

 

[Justin Stephen]

John, as I mentioned earlier, I shoot with a large photo tent kit that comes with the two stubby lights that do not allow much lighting flexibility. I was thinking about ditching the tent and shooting with some inexpensive fluorescent softboxes (including a boom) instead, something affordable like this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A2ZZIT1M65460C

Thoughts? I do not own external flashes and do shoot some videos now and again, which is why I would prefer just to use continuous light instead of strobes/umbrellas, etc.

 

[Ed Sandle]

This subject, and responses has been of real interest to me as I was a commercial photographer for one of the leading corporations for 35 years, and now thankfully am retired. There is some really good advice being given to all of you by John Lucas. I'm not sure that I could would be able give a better explanation. The only thing I could add, would be if you want to do it on the cheap, would be to just use window light for the light source, apiece of foam core or mat board for a reflector, and some roll paper for the background. Very little money involved. With out some extensive work with, or luck at lighting, you are probably going to have some reflections that should be easily handled in photoshop. For most subjects, a light tent has a tendency to create a somewhat lifeless photo.

 

[john lucas]

Musky The window source is the first thing I discuss in the PDF handout. Followed by a larger panel with a light to resemble the big window.
The soft boxes mentioned above are a good choice but you really don't need 3 of them unless your going to use them for your video production. Most of the time I either use just the soft box and fill card, or a 12" reflector light as the main light and softbox for fill if the panel won't bounce enough back. For videos I tend to use the 12" light to light the work on the lathe and the soft box to sort of fill in and/or light me. Sometimes a 3rd light is needed to light the back ground either behind me when I speak or behind the piece to make it separate from the back ground.

 

[Justin Stephen]

The soft boxes mentioned above are a good choice but you really don't need 3 of them unless your going to use them for your video production. Most of the time I either use just the soft box and fill card, or a 12" reflector light as the main light and softbox for fill if the panel won't bounce enough back. For videos I tend to use the 12" light to light the work on the lathe and the soft box to sort of fill in and/or light me. Sometimes a 3rd light is needed to light the back ground either behind me when I speak or behind the piece to make it separate from the back ground.

Thanks much!