Pepper mill advice requested

[Mark Hepburn]

Hi everyone:

I'm planning on making about 16-18 pepper mills as gifts this year and, never having made one thought I would get started now. I've seen a number of tutorials all over the web and such but before I start watching a bunch I'm hoping to get pointed in the right direction here. So....

To begin with, what type of mechanism do those of you with experience suggest? Stainless steel? Ceramic? Shaft or no shaft mechanism? Any really good brand I might look for? I know Craft Supplies sells quite a few types including the CrushGrind, but it seems that those require a bunch of metric forstner bits and mine are all Imperial (yes, I've been following Bob Chapman's thread 😀).

On the other hand, if they're really superior, then I'll by some metric bits and enter the 21st century.

Having that information in hand, I'd know what kind of assembly I'm going to have to plan for, and if someone can point me towards a good tutorial as well I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, and Merry Christmas in July!

Mark

 

[hockenbery]

Mark,

First you should consider a design. Search the journal index for pepper mills and you will find 4-5 articles

Read the all in one article by Ron Browning. American Woodturner
Page 41 July 2014.
Also Bill bowers page 58 fall 2007

Designs are wide open with the crush mechanisms and more restrictive with the traditional mechanism.

Once you have basic design in mind you can then decide on the mechanism.

I attached two photos.
The ball on a ball is the one we use every day has a crush mechanism and has been in service for 10 years
The second is a Dale Larson salt and pepper both are threaded hollow balls no mechanisms just ingenuity.

Have fun
Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have a bunch of kits and have actually made one (1) 🙄 using the SS Chef Specialties mechanism, therefore, I offer my limited "expertise" -- I think I got the Mechanism at WoodWorld of Texas, but I believe that Craft Supplies also has that brand. I feel like it is better materials and quality than some of the imported kits that I have. I used the AW article from many years ago as a guide. After making one following a "recipe", I feel like it is easy to create your own variations. You don't need exact size drills if you have turning tools to slightly enlarge holes. If you are doing a mass production, then an exact size drill speeds things up slightly.

I have one of the ceramic crush grind mechanisms and I think that they are excellent, especially for salt. If you follow the recommended procedure for making that type of mill, you will probably wind up buying some specialized tools or making something similar. I have been working on a different approach where I make a wooden cylindrical insert to fit around the body of the mechanism and then turn a recess in the body. The mechanism and wooden cylinder are assembled and then glued into the body.

i know nothing about the kind with crank handles.

 

[John King]

Get a copy of Turning Salt & Pepper Shakers And Mills by Chris West. The book has all you will ever need to know about turning salt and pepper mills and shakers.

I prefer CrushGrind mechanism. It's infinitely better than the steel mechanisms. Superior course to fine grind adjustment. Works with salt, peppercorns and spices. Metric bits not required. See chapter "Drilling and Fitting a CrushGrind Mechanism" in West's book. It's all you need to know.

Photo of mills sold at craft show attached. Mills without chrome grind adjustment knob on top are CrushGrind.

Mills are a great project. Loads of fun. - John

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Mark,

First you should consider a design. Search the journal index for pepper mills and you will find 4-5 articles

Read the all in one article by Ron Browning. American Woodturner
Page 41 July 2014.
Also Bill bowers page 58 fall 2007

Designs are wide open with the crush mechanisms and more restrictive with the traditional mechanism.

Once you have basic design in mind you can then decide on the mechanism.

I attached two photos.
The ball on a ball is the one we use every day has a crush mechanism and has been in service for 10 years
The second is a Dale Larson salt and pepper both are threaded hollow balls no mechanisms just ingenuity.

Have fun
Al

Hi Al. Thanks for the advice. I do have some designs in mind. It happens that I collect pepper mills (yes, wierd hobby I know) and have several that I want to modify the designs from, mostly contemporary. I really like your ball on a ball and that's also a great practice for turning spheres (which I haven't at all yet).

Which reminds me, I wanted to say that I enjoyed your ball in a ball demo at the symposium. And thanks for signing my Symposium Program (I was volunteering in your string puzzle youth session). You're a good teacher for sure and patient with the kids.

Hope to see you in Pittsburgh.

Mark

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I have a bunch of kits and have actually made one (1) 🙄 using the SS Chef Specialties mechanism, therefore, I offer my limited "expertise" -- I think I got the Mechanism at WoodWorld of Texas, but I believe that Craft Supplies also has that brand. I feel like it is better materials and quality than some of the imported kits that I have. I used the AW article from many years ago as a guide. After making one following a "recipe", I feel like it is easy to create your own variations. You don't need exact size drills if you have turning tools to slightly enlarge holes. If you are doing a mass production, then an exact size drill speeds things up slightly.

I have one of the ceramic crush grind mechanisms and I think that they are excellent, especially for salt. If you follow the recommended procedure for making that type of mill, you will probably wind up buying some specialized tools or making something similar. I have been working on a different approach where I make a wooden cylindrical insert to fit around the body of the mechanism and then turn a recess in the body. The mechanism and wooden cylinder are assembled and then glued into the body.

i know nothing about the kind with crank handles.

Hi Bill. I read about the Chef Specialties stuff and I don't want to skimp on quality. A

s you point out, if I'm going to do mass production then I might as well spend on the bits. A decent assortment costs less than a good turning tool, right?

Have you worked out the details on your approach to the point of having photos you might share? It sounds intriguing, since one could essentially separate the mechanical aspect from the design aspect. That might offer some freedom in design. I say that as a person who has never made a pepper mill yet. 🙂

I'd like to take a good luck at the crushgrind stuff and if it would be workable.

 

[hockenbery]

Hi Al. Thanks for the advice. I do have some designs in mind. It happens that I collect pepper mills (yes, wierd hobby I know) and have several that I want to modify the designs from, mostly contemporary. I really like your ball on a ball and that's also a great practice for turning spheres (which I haven't at all yet). Which reminds me, I wanted to say that I enjoyed your ball in a ball demo at the symposium. And thanks for signing my Symposium Program (I was volunteering in your string puzzle youth session). You're a good teacher for sure and patient with the kids. Hope to see you in Pittsburgh. Mark

Mark, Working with the kids is great fun!
The youth classes are only possible through the generous contribution of time by the assistant instructors.
So thanks to you and all the kind folks who give up seeing a rotation to work with the kids.

The kids appreciate it!



Al

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Get a copy of Turning Salt & Pepper Shakers And Mills by Chris West. The book has all you will ever need to know about turning salt and pepper mills and shakers.

I prefer CrushGrind mechanism. It's infinitely better than the steel mechanisms. Superior course to fine grind adjustment. Works with salt, peppercorns and spices. Metric bits not required. See chapter "Drilling and Fitting a CrushGrind Mechanism" in West's book. It's all you need to know.

Photo of mills sold at craft show attached. Mills without chrome grind adjustment knob on top are CrushGrind.

Mills are a great project. Loads of fun. - John

John,

If I had to guess I'd say you've made a couple of pepper mills 🙂

I just ordered the book at Amazon. Thanks for recommending it.

I like your mills quite a bit, and realize looking at the variety that I prefer the mills without the chrome adjustment knob. Do you have any specific issues I should consider with the CrushGrind?

I'm know that Craft Supplies has them, and if I need any special bits then I'll just get those too. I did open their .pdf file and to be honest, it didn't seem too helpful to me. Since you use them, what bits would you recommend if any?

It occurs to me that the pepper mills are something I'll probably be making more of over time and so a modest investment in equipment isn't too big of a deal I guess.

Thanks very much for your help!

Mark

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Mark,
Working with the kids is great fun!
The youth classes are only possible through the generous contribution of time by the assistant instructors.
So thanks to you and all the there kind folks who give up seeing a rotation to work with the kids.
The kids appreciate it!

Al

Al, it was indeed fun. That was my first symposium and I thought it would be helpful to me (since I have a 5 year old grandson I'll be teaching one day). I also did a Nick Cook and Joe Ruminski session along with yours and plan to do the same this coming year.

I got as much out of it as the kids did. One little girl said I reminded her of her "pop" and I met her parents; all in all a great experience.

 

[russ stanton]

I have turned about 10 pepper mills, all of them using the crush grind mechanism.

Two tips:
1) Use Maxi-Cut forstner bits they do seem to cut cleaner than my el-cheapos.
2 Use the Crown CrushGrind Mill cutting tool.

The second tip will save much time and grief. The crushgrind seats into the mill with spring loaded tangs that expand into a groove you must cut on the interior of the mill body. The dimensions of this groove are somewhat critical and this type of cutting tools will get the groove cut easily and to the correct size.

Also spend some time getting good measurements off the mechanism and the drilling of the interior will be much easier.

Russ

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I have turned about 10 pepper mills, all of them using the crush grind mechanism.

Two tips:
1) Use Maxi-Cut forstner bits they do seem to cut cleaner than my el-cheapos.
2 Use the Crown CrushGrind Mill cutting tool.

The second tip will save much time and grief. The crushgrind seats into the mill with spring loaded tangs that expand into a groove you must cut on the interior of the mill body. The dimensions of this groove are somewhat critical and this type of cutting tools will get the groove cut easily and to the correct size.

Also spend some time getting good measurements off the mechanism and the drilling of the interior will be much easier.

Russ

Thanks Russ. That sounds like really good advice and coupled with John's insight on the CrushGrind, that's the direction I'm going. I've read that the crushgrind uses metric dimensions and so let me ask you also: did you find that to be true and did you purchase some metric forstner bits or do you use the standard inch measurements? I ask because I've seen on some other forums that even though the instructions use US measure for the bits, the mills are actually metric and there may bey some fit issues?

I have a nice set of Freud bits that do a good job. Still, I won't hesitate to get the correct tools for the job.

And the mill cutting tool I see is available at Craft Supplies (but they're out of the crushgrind mechanisms at the moment). I just looked at Rockler and they're almost twice the price per mill ($19.99 as opposed to 10.95).

I'll definitely take some measurements off the mill beforehand. Thanks, I honestly wouldn't have thought of that at all.

Mark

 

[Bill Boehme]

?.. Have you worked out the details on your approach to the point of having photos you might share? It sounds intriguing, since one could essentially separate the mechanical aspect from the design aspect. That might offer some freedom in design. I say that as a person who has never made a pepper mill yet. 🙂 ....

I made some sketches and notes on a piece of paper ... and, I'm sure that it is somewhere waiting for me. As Russ says, the dimensions need to be done carefully. My design idea does what the specialized tools do for making a recess for the spring loaded fingers. The difference is that the wooden cylinder would have notches at the top for the fingers. My rationale is that it would prevent pepper particles from collecting in a recess between the mechanism and mill body.

?.. Two tips:
1) Use Maxi-Cut forstner bits they do seem to cut cleaner than my el-cheapos.
2 Use the Crown CrushGrind Mill cutting tool.

The second tip will save much time and grief. The crushgrind seats into the mill with spring loaded tangs that expand into a groove you must cut on the interior of the mill body. The dimensions of this groove are somewhat critical and this type of cutting tools will get the groove cut easily and to the correct size....

The Colt Maxi-Cut Forstner bits are the best. I also like their pen drills. Using the tools would be easier and faster than my work-in-progress.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I made some sketches and notes on a piece of paper ... and, I'm sure that it is somewhere waiting for me. As Russ says, the dimensions need to be done carefully. My design idea does what the specialized tools do for making a recess for the spring loaded fingers. The difference is that the wooden cylinder would have notches at the top for the fingers. My rationale is that it would prevent pepper particles from collecting in a recess between the mechanism and mill body.



The Colt Maxi-Cut Forstner bits are the best. I also like their pen drills. Using the tools would be easier and faster than my work-in-progress.

Thanks Bill. That's two votes for the Colt bits. Thanks for the link too.

Mark

 

[russ stanton]

I use the following Maxi-Cuts 1 3/4, 1 1/2, 1 1/16, and 7/8.

This has worked just fine. Depending on the height of the mill you design you will also need a extension shaft. The colt extensions work great with the colt bits and run true.

Another source for mechanisms, bits and cutting tools is Packard Woodturning tools.

Also note that in addition to the Crown tool Sorby makes a tool that will work but the groove is a bit too short so you have to work at it a bit to get the right length. The Sorby tool is the relief cutter tool in their threat chasing set. Packard carries it.

Russ

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I use the following Maxi-Cuts 1 3/4, 1 1/2, 1 1/16, and 7/8.

This has worked just fine. Depending on the height of the mill you design you will also need a extension shaft. The colt extensions work great with the colt bits and run true.

Another source for mechanisms, bits and cutting tools is Packard Woodturning tools.

Also note that in addition to the Crown tool Sorby makes a tool that will work but the groove is a bit too short so you have to work at it a bit to get the right length. The Sorby tool is the relief cutter tool in their threat chasing set. Packard carries it.

Russ

Russ,

I saw that Sorby tool but would prefer the correct tool. I saw Packard has the mechanisms a minute ago and since they have the bits too... And Brad Packard is a good guy to deal with too.

 

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

www.chefwarekits.com also carries the CrushGrind and associated tools.

You don't have to cut the relief - you can use a utility knife, trim the tabs off the mechanism, then epoxy the mechanism into the peppermill body.

inch sized forstner bits work fine, but unless you have a very large set - you'll be buying individual bits because they are odd sizes.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I haven't made any pepper grinders, but I do use them often and did a bit of boring in my time.
the best bits I have found are the German Bormax bits from Woodcraft, stay sharp a long time and are true, it you pay for that. My experience with them is making hundreds of oil lamps.
As far as mechanisms, I would want one that grinds the pepper consistently and thouroughly. This comes from a cooks perspective. The overall shape is based on artists choice. If you make an ugly one, you'll know and if it's ugly, don't feel afraid to pitch it and start over.
It has to feel good in the chefs hands and comfortable to twist, outside of that, have at it. Length is subjective. Larger may be prized by collectors, it home chefs wul get a lot of use out of 12" vs the trophy of a 36" grinder.

crap, maybe I need to make one for me now. With polka dots

 

[Bill Boehme]

?... crap, maybe I need to make one for me now. With polka dots

... and a little sight-glass window to check the peppercorn level. 🙄

 

[John King]

CrushGrind Pepper/Salt/Spice Mills

Mark - Pass on the metric forstner bits and go with imperial carbide forstner bits. Don't waste your money on high speed steel forstner bits. They simply are not up to the challenge of repeated drilling in end grain. I use Freud carbide forstner bits. They are clean cutting and long lasting.

See the attached pdf files for mill body and mill cap boring measurements. Red lines are for a CrushGrind@ mechanism. The mill body is flat on the top. There is no tenon as shown in the CrushGrind Body.pdf file. The mill cap is flat on the bottom. The mill cap sits on top of the mill body and is centered on the mill body by the CrushGrind@ stopper in the mill cap. Only metric bit I use is a 26mm for the CrushGrind@ stopper recess in the top of the mill body. It's important that the CrushGrind@ stopper fit snugly in the mill body so that the cap stays centered on the mill body.

When properly installed, the CrushGrind@ mechanism requires no epoxy or similar adhesive. Here’s the deal.

Most, but not all, instructions for making CrushGrind@ mills provided by US suppliers specify 1) a 1 9/16†diameter hole in the mill body for the grinding mechanism, 2) removal of the spring clips from the grinding mechanism and 3) use of epoxy (or similar) to secure the grinding mechanism in the mill body. These same instructions specify 1) a 15/16†diameter hole in the mill cap for the stopper, 2) removal of the spring clips from the stopper and 3) use of epoxy (or similar) to secure the stopper in the mill cap. One can make a very nice pepper/salt/spice mill using these instructions. But there is a better way! It’s the no epoxy required way.

The manufacturer’s recommendation for the diameter of the hole in the mill body for the CrushGrind@ mechanism is 38mm (1.496â€). I am good with calling that 1½†(1.500â€). The manufacturer’s recommendation for the diameter of the hole in the mill cap for the stopper is 22mm (0.866â€). I am good with calling that 7/8†(0.875â€).

No epoxy (or similar) is required to secure the grinding mechanism in the mill body and the stopper in the mill cap if 1) the CrushGrind@ manufacture’s recommendations for mill body and mill cap hole diameters are used and 2) a groove is cut in the mill body and the mill cap to accept the spring clips on the grinding mechanism and stopper.

Sorby makes a groove cutting tool for CrushGrind@ mechanisms. It's available from Packard Woodworks. The part number is 108870. It’s a must have tool if one is going to install the CrushGrind@ mechanism in pepper/salt/spice mills using the spring clips and no epoxy. It's cleverly designed and marked so that cutting the groove in the mill body for the grinding mechanism and cutting the groove in the mill cap for the stopper can be near hassle free.

With the grinding mechanism and stopper press fit into the mill body and the mill cap, respectively, and the spring clips locked into the mill body and the mill cap grooves, epoxy is not required for a secure fit.

An excellent set of instructions for making a pepper/salt/spice mill using the CrushGrind@ mechanism can be found in Turning Salt & Pepper Shakers and Mills by Chris West, “Drilling and Fitting a CrushGrind@ Mechanism,†p 132.

In my opinion, the CrushGrind@ mechanism is far superior to the stainless steel grinding mechanisms. It can be used to grind pepper, salt and spices. The grind can be adjusted from course to very fine. It’s made of non-corrosive ceramic. There is a 25 year guarantee on the ceramic parts inside the CrushGrind@ mechanism.

Best video that I have seen is "Making a Peppermill, Focus on Design," by Ted Sokolowski. He does not use the CrushGriind@ mechanism, but his process for design and turning of the peppermill is excellent.

I have a couple of mills in process. Will post some photos here at later date.

Hope above helps. Enjoy! – John

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Mark - Pass on the metric forstner bits and go with imperial carbide forstner bits. Don't waste your money on high speed steel forstner bits. They simply are not up to the challenge of repeated drilling in end grain. I use Freud carbide forstner bits. They are clean cutting and long lasting.

See the attached pdf files for mill body and mill cap boring measurements. Red lines are for a CrushGrind@ mechanism. The mill body is flat on the top. There is no tenon as shown in the CrushGrind Body.pdf file. The mill cap is flat on the bottom. The mill cap sits on top of the mill body and is centered on the mill body by the CrushGrind@ stopper in the mill cap. Only metric bit I use is a 26mm for the CrushGrind@ stopper recess in the top of the mill body. It's important that the CrushGrind@ stopper fit snugly in the mill body so that the cap stays centered on the mill body.

When properly installed, the CrushGrind@ mechanism requires no epoxy or similar adhesive. Here’s the deal.

Most, but not all, instructions for making CrushGrind@ mills provided by US suppliers specify 1) a 1 9/16†diameter hole in the mill body for the grinding mechanism, 2) removal of the spring clips from the grinding mechanism and 3) use of epoxy (or similar) to secure the grinding mechanism in the mill body. These same instructions specify 1) a 15/16†diameter hole in the mill cap for the stopper, 2) removal of the spring clips from the stopper and 3) use of epoxy (or similar) to secure the stopper in the mill cap. One can make a very nice pepper/salt/spice mill using these instructions. But there is a better way! It’s the no epoxy required way.

The manufacturer’s recommendation for the diameter of the hole in the mill body for the CrushGrind@ mechanism is 38mm (1.496â€). I am good with calling that 1½†(1.500â€). The manufacturer’s recommendation for the diameter of the hole in the mill cap for the stopper is 22mm (0.866â€). I am good with calling that 7/8†(0.875â€).

No epoxy (or similar) is required to secure the grinding mechanism in the mill body and the stopper in the mill cap if 1) the CrushGrind@ manufacture’s recommendations for mill body and mill cap hole diameters are used and 2) a groove is cut in the mill body and the mill cap to accept the spring clips on the grinding mechanism and stopper.

Sorby makes a groove cutting tool for CrushGrind@ mechanisms. It's available from Packard Woodworks. The part number is 108870. It’s a must have tool if one is going to install the CrushGrind@ mechanism in pepper/salt/spice mills using the spring clips and no epoxy. It's cleverly designed and marked so that cutting the groove in the mill body for the grinding mechanism and cutting the groove in the mill cap for the stopper can be near hassle free.

With the grinding mechanism and stopper press fit into the mill body and the mill cap, respectively, and the spring clips locked into the mill body and the mill cap grooves, epoxy is not required for a secure fit.

An excellent set of instructions for making a pepper/salt/spice mill using the CrushGrind@ mechanism can be found in Turning Salt & Pepper Shakers and Mills by Chris West, “Drilling and Fitting a CrushGrind@ Mechanism,†p 132.

In my opinion, the CrushGrind@ mechanism is far superior to the stainless steel grinding mechanisms. It can be used to grind pepper, salt and spices. The grind can be adjusted from course to very fine. It’s made of non-corrosive ceramic. There is a 25 year guarantee on the ceramic parts inside the CrushGrind@ mechanism.

Best video that I have seen is "Making a Peppermill, Focus on Design," by Ted Sokolowski. He does not use the CrushGriind@ mechanism, but his process for design and turning of the peppermill is excellent.

I have a couple of mills in process. Will post some photos here at later date.

Hope above helps. Enjoy! – John

John, if this doesn't help then I just can't be helped. 😀

Book is on the way and, with all due respect to the Colt recommendations, I'm going to go with the carbide Freud bits. Are those drawings copies of your working plans? Many thanks. I'll post when I've finished the first couple.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

 

[John King]

More Info

John, if this doesn't help then I just can't be helped. 😀

Book is on the way and, with all due respect to the Colt recommendations, I'm going to go with the carbide Freud bits. Are those drawings copies of your working plans? Many thanks. I'll post when I've finished the first couple.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Mark - The drawings are essentially working drawings. I mounted the mill body and mill cap drawings on ¼" MDF to create a mill storyboard. See attached Mill Storyboard.pdf (NOTE: Mill Storyboard.pdf is not actual size.) The process of creating the mill storyboard is clearly explained in the Sokolowski DVD. Short Version: The profile of the mill blank (yellow), the mill cap, the mill body, the boring diagram and all dimensions are on a single storyboard.

Another good resource is the DVD "Perfect Peppermill" by Paul Chilton. You can get it from Utah Association of Woodturners (http://www.utahwoodturners.org/). Click on Utah Woodchips. Select a newsletter (any month will do). Scroll down to Club Demo DVDs for Sale at the end of the newsletter. See April 08, Paul Chilton - Perfect Peppermill.

My work process is a blend of information from Sokolowski DVD, Chilton DVD, Chris West book, Brian Fitzsimmons (http://constablewoodcrafts.co.uk/) tutoring via e-mail and my own experience. You will have to go about developing your work process.

Glad to answer questions as you proceed with developing your work process. - John

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Mark - The drawings are essentially working drawings. I mounted the mill body and mill cap drawings on ¼" MDF to create a mill storyboard. See attached Mill Storyboard.pdf (NOTE: Mill Storyboard.pdf is not actual size.) The process of creating the mill storyboard is clearly explained in the Sokolowski DVD. Short Version: The profile of the mill blank (yellow), the mill cap, the mill body, the boring diagram and all dimensions are on a single storyboard.

Another good resource is the DVD "Perfect Peppermill" by Paul Chilton. You can get it from Utah Association of Woodturners (http://www.utahwoodturners.org/). Click on Utah Woodchips. Select a newsletter (any month will do). Scroll down to Club Demo DVDs for Sale at the end of the newsletter. See April 08, Paul Chilton - Perfect Peppermill.

My work process is a blend of information from Sokolowski DVD, Chilton DVD, Chris West book, Brian Fitzsimmons (http://constablewoodcrafts.co.uk/) tutoring via e-mail and my own experience. You will have to go about developing your work process.

Glad to answer questions as you proceed with developing your work process. - John

John,

Thanks again. I went to the website and located the DVD and sent an email off to inquire about purchasing. Meanwhile the book came in yesterday and I have the 26mm bit arriving tomorrow. Sounds like I'll be trying one this weekend. 🙂

Mark