Pentacryl stabilizer info anyone?

[Raul McCai]

For those who want to cut to the chase:
Does the stuff ever dry out?


Bought some and I read the blurb that came with it.
a copy can be found here: http://www.preservation-solutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Pentacryl_Directions_11_4_12.pdf

Says it can be brushed on in several applications.
OK that's what I did. I'm turning a crotch of semi green spalted maple. It's a wood pile salvage that's been out in the weather for a couple years so it's sort of dry but not dry enough to call seasoned.

So I applied the Pentacryl, wrapped it in some kraft paper and stuffed it in a carboard box.
Meanwhile I tossed the brush in a bucket.
This was a few weeks ago.

Today I picked up the brush and there does not appear to be much by way of any cure or drying .
The instructions ( see PDF) on the second sheet near the bottom says:
"Gluing and Finishing: Once completely dry, the wood can be sanded, glued, stained and/or finished. Both oil based or water based products can be used. If needed, wipe down the surface of the wood with mineral spirits or Solvitol to remove any residue and prepare the wood for gluing or finishing. Allow the surface dry overnight before applying glue or finish."

So it claims that the stuff dries and then says there may some glop remaining to remove with solvent.
Does it dry out?
Or - as I suspect - is it merely a chemical sponge that sucks moisture from the wood and never really penetrates anything beyond the first few thousandths so that final finishing or maybe even sanding removes it leaving pretty much none behind?

 

[Raul McCai]

Not a lot pf pentacryl fans it seems

 

[Mark Mandell]

Expensive. Sold to beginners as the Magic Elixir capable of saving every precious turning. Bought it. Used it once. No Magic. Let it sit on the shelf until the bottle deformed. Included it in a toxic waste drop-off.

Save your money. Wood grows on trees. If something cracks and you don't like it, turn another one. 😀

 

[Raul McCai]

you mean it is NOT a magic elixir? But it says so right on the bottle~!!

Well I qualify as a beginner at turning fer sure.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I did the same beginner trick about 11 years ago. Used it once. Money down the toilet. I think that I still have the partially used container somewhere in a dark corner of the shop.

 

[Bob Howell]

Last spring I went with a friend to buy some box elder. The guy was a tree cutter from a large family of tree cutters and turners, and also had a 24-28" popular platter he was working on with lots of purple. He used the out board end of a Oneway.

He was soaking it for several days/weeks in tub of Pentacryl. He said he used it all the time. I got no more details but have looked for more information because I had not heard of that.

His 5 uncles supplied Ed and Phillip Moltrip with wood for years and got into turning through that friendship.

Perhaps he has found a way to use it successfully.

 

[Raul McCai]

Ron Kent uses a dish soap from costco and soaks pretty much everything in it.

http://www.ronkent.com/techniques.php

He says it doesn't interfere with his finishes. It's what led me to suspect that nothing penetrates very much but rather the various stabilizers draw the moisture out.
Which ( if true) tells me not one thing about how or why such a thing helps prevent cracking.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Ron Kent uses a dish soap from costco and soaks pretty much everything in it.

http://www.ronkent.com/techniques.php

He says it doesn't interfere with his finishes. It's what led me to suspect that nothing penetrates very much but rather the various stabilizers draw the moisture out.
Which ( if true) tells me not one thing about how or why such a thing helps prevent cracking.

Well Raul, a little story:

I bought into the Costco soap-soaking routine. I had 25 gals of the stuff that I would plop those fresh-turned bowls into. Turns out I should have done more research in the area of organic chemistry. Turns out that the detergents and surfactants in the soap did a fine job of extracting and combining with the sugars and proteins in the wet wood. They then formed long-chain organic molecules. Didn't take more than 5 months before 25 gallons of Costco dish soap, fragrant with a lemon-orange scent though it may have been, effectively gelled into what resembled something from a 50's horror movie.

I then got to take the stuff to my county haz-mat day. When the guy came over to my truck only to be confronted by the 30 gal can of giggling goop, he beat feet for a supervisor. Several minutes later they returned in full respirator rigs to figure out what to do. After a couple of questions that had the supervisor laughing, they unloaded the Blob and several minutes later returned my container.

To this day, I still believe that the entire mass went straight down the nearest storm drain.

Made little difference in the bowls cracking, but evaporative finishes (shellac and lacquer) did have a tendency to release.

YMMV

 

[Raul McCai]

Well Raul, a little story:

That's an interesting tale. Did you cut the soap with water at all?
I read Kent's whole write-up - - as it turns out he uses no finishes other than wax and oils so when he claims it doesn't interfere with his finish, the unspoken fact is that his sample population of finishes is pretty slender.

I wondered reading his write up about mold. If I were keeping a tank of soap around I'd put plenty of EDTA in it to bind specifically to all the minerals and metals so that molds couldn't get a toe hold. Soap is, after all, a very good growth medium for molds.
Problem is the more wood one adds the more minerals and what not ends up in the tank and the more EDTA you'd need to add in order to chelate the minerals.
Sooner or later the mounting quantum of EDTA should become an issue in the chemistry of the mix.

 

[Mark Mandell]

That's an interesting tale. Did you cut the soap with water at all?
I read Kent's whole write-up - - as it turns out he uses no finishes other than wax and oils so when he claims it doesn't interfere with his finish, the unspoken fact is that his sample population of finishes is pretty slender.

I wondered reading his write up about mold. If I were keeping a tank of soap around I'd put plenty of EDTA in it to bind specifically to all the minerals and metals so that molds couldn't get a toe hold. Soap is, after all, a very good growth medium for molds.
Problem is the more wood one adds the more minerals and what not ends up in the tank and the more EDTA you'd need to add in order to chelate the minerals.
Sooner or later the mounting quantum of EDTA should become an issue in the chemistry of the mix.

Nope, Straight stuff. Check-out girl commented that I must wash a lot of dishes.

Don't remember any mold issues. Oil finishes did fine, but hard resin evaporative films had adhesion issues. Not surprised at that as I used to use soap as a mold release agent in plaster and concrete casting.

Chemistry? Oh yeah, I remember a chem teacher in high school caught me napping and demanded I explain a reaction he'd just put on the board. I replied "Black Magic?"

I didn't do well in chemistry. Couldn't figure out how part of window dressing applied to chemistry

 

[Raul McCai]

Nope, Straight stuff.

I believe Kent cuts it fifty/fifty

Don't remember any mold issues.

I'm surprised. I get mold in my Hide glue unless I either refrigerate it or use EDTA. It's surprising how little makes all the difference. Soap is mostly food for molds. But then mold can grow on nearly anything. Hell, I use a very strong solution of Ascorbic Acid for stripping rust from old tools and such and if I leave a tub of it around it gets moldy.

Chemistry? - - - "Black Magic?"

LOL
Well I ain't a chemist, but the long and short of my use for EDTA is that it is a cheating agent that binds specifically to minerals and metals. Adding it in very modest amounts to things like hide glue and soaps mayonnaise ( yes it's in mayo' look on the label) and cosmetics prevents molds because once those minerals and metals are all locked up with the EDTA they are no longer available to the molds and bacteria as nutrients.