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Paduk

Joined
May 10, 2004
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Location
minnesota
I am not sure of the spelling for that wood; Paduk. Anyhow. today a friend come to me to solve a problem and I had no answer. The red-orange of the paduk run into the basswood, glued to it, when he applied a finish.
How do you prevent this? What finish should he have used? :confused:
 
I love Paduk! The biggest problem with this wood is the dust. I have not found it to have an oil in the pieces I have used but when sanding it produces a fine dust that will cover everything. When putting a friction finish on Paduk pens that I have sanded to 1000 grit, my hands will turn red from the dust mixing with the finish.

I would suggest your freind pick up some "Tack Cloths" from a good hardware store, paint store or a Auto Parts store that sells paint. Use a tack cloth heavily to remove the Paduk dust that is too fine to see before applying a finish. I would continue wiping with fresh areas of tack cloth till you see no Paduk color being picked up. If he is brushing or rubbing on a finish, work from the basswood end towards the paduk.

Wilford
 
I had the same problem with some padauk/yellowheart Christmas ornaments. I didn't solve the problem but I will certianly try the tack cloth when/if I go down this road again.
 
Padauk leaching

I have used a lot of padauk over the years and I never solved the problem of the pigment from the padauk leaching over onto other woods that abut it. I have always ASSUMED that the solvent in the finish I was using released the pigment from the padauk.

Obviously dust from different species of wood that abut can cross over and cause finish problems. I have always been amazed at the clarity of the finishes that some segmented turners seem to achieve. Since this must be a constant concern to them I hope that one of that distinguished group will enlighten us. :D For example, the work of Eli Avisera as seen on the cover of The Woodturners Catalog 2004/2005 from Craft Supplies USA shows NO leaching from the ebony or purpleheart. Sharp and crisp.

Realize also that the grain structure of the contrasting wood can either help eliminate the problem or contribute to it. Ash is more open, while hard maple or beech is much tighter. I would expect more of a problem with the ash than the other two.
 
Padauk

I have had Padauk oils leach into surrounding woods, especially when applying solvent based finishes. There are two ways to help prevent it that i know of:
1. Use a water based finish.
2. Apply very light (misting) coats of finish until you have sealed the Padauk.

As mentioned above the dust will also show up if it is not removed before finishing.

Dave
 
not just padauk

same problem but with Holly and dark dust, either wenge in the detail ring or mahogany in the main parts, since this is edge wood shouldn't expect tear out to be the problem, but maybe there is a little. More sanding?? Any help appreciated.
 

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Dr. Dewey,

One of the worst messes I ever made in my shop was when I planed some Mahogany before I had a dust collector to hook up to my planer. Took me 2 evenings of hard work to get that dust out of the shop. The wenge pen blanks I have worked with are also bad dusty. Based on your picture if this has already had a finish applied I would try sanding the finish off and see if a light sanding would remove the stain. Then heavy on the tack cloths and see if some of the finish advice above would help.

Good luck.

Wilford
 
good advice

Thanx for the info, its unfinished. Took a rag soaked with thinners and got some of the mess off but there is still more and can feel some roughness so will try more sanding to that area.

Use a shop vac right at the lathe and most of the dust gets captured there. Overhead filter takes some more, but it does accumulate. Find i get a little sensitive to this particular piece of mahogany (sneezes etc) , so the triton respirator gets a work out, even when using tools on the piece.
 
Padauk leaches

I have made many pens with a combination of Padauk and light colored woods.

I have taken Padauk shavings and dust, and put them in alcohol. In a little while the alcohol has extracted a lot of the color. So I know it is highly soluble. So I don't use my usual shellac as a sanding sealer when there is Padauk present. Water borne poly, such as MinWax PolyCrylic has worked better for me.

All the usual precautions when sanding have to be taken, of course.

Color from the Padauk can leach into adjacent wood long after the pen has been finished. I think it goes right through the glue. For this reason I use epoxy, which seems to act as a barrier.

Laminations made with Titbond have leached badly on me. It seems to be gradual as it gets worse with time.

One of my friends has a Padauk/Maple pen I gave her over a year ago. I used epoxy for the glueup. There is no bleeding whatsoever.

Just my experience.
 
follow up to dust problems

a creppe block does not work, to remove dust in pores, it makes a mess.

A friend suggested a cabinet scraper, sure enough it was just right to take fine shavings down to clean wood and just fine sading starting at #360. Also fresh CLEAN paper helps, and up-down motion to expose new grit, sideways brings in the coloured dusts.
 
Anyone tried CA? It hardens into an acrylic so maybe it would make a good barrier. Might have to give a light coat and sand down before regluing. Haven't tried it but would be interested to hear.

Dietrich
 
more info on CA

Would you coat everything, as in a segmented bowl with many seperate padauk and other species (which is my interest)? we have not heard from any of the people that do segmented work with lots of interspersed species. Fred mentioned the oil from padauk can migrate through some glues.

I have not been a fan of CA since i heard that museums have stoped using it for restorations - it breaks down in time - although the time span has ranged from 5 to over 20 years, the jury is still out.

here is some fascinating info - this was from a modelling site of the US Navy, as they restore model ships.

"CA was formulated by accident in 1951 by two scientists working for the Eastman Kodak Company. They were trying to come up with a stronger, clearer, and more heat resistant acrylic plastic for jet plane canopies. By 1958, Kodak, which called it Kodak 910 Adhesive, developed a way to manufacture this material commercially, outside the laboratory and in quantity. It may have been instant "glue," but it was far from an instant hit in the marketplace. Apparently, 910 was not widely marketed for domestic use at first; rather, the first applications were in the manufacture of cameras, electronic instruments, automobiles, and atom bombs. In 1966 during the Vietnam War, a surgical grade of CA was used by some combat medical teams. It worked well, but the product was not approved by the Federal Drug Administration for general medical use because it appeared to cause tumors when implanted in rats. Public interest in CA products for general use began to grow when the inventors suspended Gary Moore on live national television with a single drop. That feat is still used in some TV commercials.

Early on, CA was prized highly for its optical clarity. Because it remains largely invisible when used to repair broken glass objects, museum conservators regularly used CA for glass repairs. But then they found that some types of glass deteriorated the adhesive. So, while CA is still used in museums for temporary repairs, conservators now use epoxy or clear polyvinyl acrylic adhesives, which are rated class A, for permanent repairs.

There are a lot of different CA permutations now being formulated that have particular viscosities and cure rates for specialized applications. Cyanoacrylates can be divided into two main types‹methyl and ethyl‹plus, there are also propyl, butyl, and methoxyethyl types. They vary in consistency from watery to gel-like. Gap filling depends on the type of CA used. Certainly, viscous CAs can fill gaps well. Regardless of the type, CA is nearly a class A substance whose magic lies in its ability to form superior long-lasting acrylic bonds between small surfaces.

CA does have some limitations. It is brittle and has little strength in shear, being especially sensitive to impact. Some types of CA are not waterproof, and, like all acrylics, CA generally has a small tendency to absorb water, though this has not been shown to be detrimental. We also know that CA is gas permeable, and therefore does not prevent airborne acetic acid from attacking lead, or ferrous metals from rusting.

Commercial-grade CAs, repackaged in smaller quantities, are no doubt the type sold by hobby suppliers. We have used industrial grade methyl and ethyl CAs on navy models for small jobs and quick repairs since 1983. Our uses have included coating bare brass and Britannia fittings and securing rigging line, and we have not seen any evidence of its giving way. Although there has been some concern that accelerants weaken the bond, we frequently use accelerants, or "kickers," to speed up the cure, and have not noticed any difference. However, CAs should not be used exclusively in modelbuilding, however tempting that might be. For larger surface bonds, like between the lifts of bread-and-butter hulls, or between block superstructures and decks, I recommend using another adhesive. "

Regards
Ray
 
I do segmented turnings, although not at the expert level others have achieved. I ran into a similar problem with light colored dust getting trapped in the pores of darker wood and vice versa on some of my turnings. Wiping the workpiece with a tack cloth worked to a certain degree, but the suggestion of another turner to vaccum and then blow the piece off with an air nozzle just before finishing has given me my best results thus far.

I spray most of my pieces with light coats of either lacquer or water based polyurethane, so I'm afraid I can't help much with the bleeding that occurs with a piece finished while spinning. I have seen suggestions of wiping it with lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol to remove some of the surface oils in the wood before finishing. I guess this removes some of the oils that would tend to bleed, but it's not a technique I've tried yet, so I can't say for sure how well it works. I've got a bowl with a padauk and maple feature ring and I'll give it shot.

Bob W.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
I have been forwarding this info to friend. Another person brought paduk to the shop today. I will give him a copy of this also.
Myself; I will just avoid paduk.
 
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