Odd collet explains loosening handle

[Roger Wiegand]

I made tool handles with the Robust collet system several years ago and was frustrated that my gouge loosened up in the collet whenever I turned anything with much vibration. Since I'd recently gone down the collet rabbit hole with my new CNC router I paid more attention to what was going on and found the fit to be looser than expected in the collet. On inspection the ER25 collet turned out to be 21/32" rather than 5/8 to match the tool. Replacing the collet with the right size resulted in a miracle cure. Hurrah! So, if you have this problem check your collet size.

There was recently a thread on the CNC forum I frequent about using slightly large collets on bits in a spindle (someone with English collets for his spindle and a metric shaft bit IIRC) and the consensus was "sure, if it tightens down it'll be fine". No way I'm chucking up a router bit or expensive end mill in anything other than a high precision collet of the correct size after this experience!

 

[John Whitley]

Of course, there's also the flip side when using the Robust system with turning tools: when the tool is listed at some nominal size (1/2" or whatever), but when measured it's actually off by a bit .... enough to cause a problem for the same nominal-size collet. Both situations require a collet change, just for different reasons.

Another user note on the Robust system: a collet is designed to clamp down on a consistent-dimension tool tang – not a tapered tang. This came up when I tried to use a new Robust 1" skew, which wouldn't clamp down reliably due to the slight taper. Brent @ Robust said that they'd designed that for users who made their own fixed handles, but it had turned into a problem since so many users were switching to their collet system! (And A+ customer service: they swapped my tapered-tang skew out for the even-newer skew design revision with a straight tang. Works like a charm.)

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Call me funny, but I do not care for metal handles for turning tools, interchangeable blades or fixed. They don't feel good in my hand, they can be cold to hold on to, and they can be heavy. Profiled, shot-filled aluminum, rubber hose-wrapped steel, whatever. I prefer permanent wood handles. I've made a few wood handles but overall the classic wood handle designs have served me well. I've had several Crown Pro-PM tools for 20 years (I'm a casual turner), and I've never had to think about the handles. I know metal handle systems are the cat's pajamas for many folks, but for me, long live wood handles!

 

[Roger Wiegand]

The attraction of this system is that you can have interchangeable tools with wood handles made to fit your hands and needs. I'd need to double my tool storage area if every odd-purpose tool I used had its own handle. Plus I like longer handles on my big bowl gouges and they can make them a pain to sharpen vs popping just the tool out to take to the grinder.

 

[John K Jordan]

Call me funny, but I do not care for metal handles for turning tools, interchangeable blades or fixed. ...

I'm mostly with you on that. I have a couple of Thompson handles and a several old SS handles with foam grips (long for bigger turnings) but almost all I use are made from wood. (The metal can feel cold! However, I like the profile of the Thompson handles)

However, I have too many tools and a dedicated wood handle for each tool would require adding a room on the shop. (just kidding, but barely). I do like wood handles with inserts to hold tools. For example, I keep a 1/2 dozen 3/8" spindle gouges without handles in very little space a shallow drawer and put one in a handle - when it gets a bit dull I set it aside, and swap for a sharp one and don't have to stop and sharpen.

However, I don't like the ER and similar collets and some of the quick-release connectors for one reason - they are bulky. I often like to choke up on the tool and with my hand near the tool rest, especially when turning one-handed, and a large collet gets in the way.

Years ago I started making inserts for wooden handles, tools held by a couple of set screws. At the time, several were available to buy but all I found were made from 1" dia aluminum stock which far bigger than needed for a 1/4" tool, harder to hold close for detailed work!
Also, as noted, some tool shafts are made a little over-sized and need slightly oversized holes in the inserts - with two set screws this is not a problem since the shafts that are NOT oversized are still held securely and can't loosen from vibration.

Here are a few inserts I made, along with one I bought - the #3 is an example of a 1" insert made to fit a 1/4" tool. I think #2 is the most comfortable - I can shape the end of the handle to better fit my hand. The shorter handles are better to hold with one hand.


I make most of these from aluminum, some from steel, and one from brass. This one will hold a 5/8" diameter shaft, such as this 1" Thompson spindle roughing gouge.


Some for 3/8" tools, show here with some Hunter tools.


One advantage of making inserts is I can drill a deep hole in the handle and only expose a short length of the working end. This gives more control on some detailed turnings but also allows keeping the exposed tool length the same even when shortened by sharpening. (This pic is before epoxying the insert into the handle.)


I use the metal-turning lathe for those made from steel and the larger inserts, but no metal lathe? - the aluminum and inserts can be made on the wood lathe with standard woodturning tools, gouges, skews, etc. It's not real fast but not difficult.

If anyone is interested and hasn't see it, for a demo handout I wrote a doc about how to make them:

Turning metal on a wood lathe

I wrote this PFD document for a demo I did on turning metals, primarily aluminum and brass, on a wood lathe with woodturning tools. Relativity easy to do! For an example I show how I make inserts for lathe tools. The one I show is fairly small but the method is the same for any size. JKJ

www.aawforum.org

JKJ