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Normy's foibles

DeanGThomas

DeanGThomas

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Just watching Norm create a cherry folding table. What a guy and what a job to have. Great ideas and execution (for the most part), but his lathe skills are pretty sucky! He does, however, make great use of the 80 grit gouge. Some really good shop tips, too, though, in his defense. Does Normy need defending?? Well, I think that his lathe tools (for a national audience) are indefensible. Obviously one man's opinion. :cool2: I still love the show, though.

Project can be seen at TiltTopTable

First on his task list was to create the center post. Nicely shaped piece with a sufficiency of beads, shoulders, and other fun details. Almost said "nicely turned", but I can't say that. Nicely completed, nicely conceived, nicely finished, but the techniques used to get there??? He used his table saw to remove corners from his 3"+ blank. That was good. Then he used his roughing gouge as a scraper to get to cylinder status. OY! Not a true cut to be seen. He got the cylinder marked from his fully drawn pattern and used a diamond parting tool (straight in with no side-wise relief) and caliper to size his major reference points. He then proceeded to use his roughing gouge uphill to create the tapered portion of the center post. Watching it jerk and squirt as he moved it uphill made me cringe. And that was all the turning they showed. It was enough. Sigh

The other good things shown were:
  • Chunk of plywood with drilled hole to use as size guide for tenon on the post. Since the 10/4 platform/hinge was to be drilled with a forstner bit, the plywood was also drilled so that overall fit and consistency could be quickly assessed.
  • Nifty router box with a couple of template/lids to cut the shoulders and dovetails for the cabriole legs, utilizing the indexing feature of the lathe to achieve the 120º spacing for the legs, and the nice flat joint necessary to make those dovetail joints on the legs work to the max.
  • Nifty home-made panel or tenoning jig for the table saw made out of MDF
On the whole, a nice project, but one that would make most turners quiver. 😱
 
I've watched norm for a long time. He's fun to watch. In his defense He is getting better. I used to cringe when I watched him turn. Now he turnes like many of people who visit my shop. I always marvel at his jigs. Being a jig making person I know Norm and I would hit it off.
Roy Underhill cuts most of the time instead of scraping. Scott Phillips has obviously had a few good instructions but could still use some help. Both those guys are great to watch and I enjoy thier shows when I have time to watch.
That used to be my Saturday afternoon nap time. I never make it through all the shows. I've been too busy lately to take a nap.
 
Rumor has it that Norm was seen in the Delta booth at the IWF this week. I cannot confirm it, although I was there the last four days.

And a little off topic....

I was delighted to meet Ernie Conover however. He was demoing the Jet sharpening system...

And I met Linda M... uh... Linda VanGehuchten, (sorry Linda, I never learned how to pronounce that last name, and can't seem to remember it either.. 😱 ) who was turning for Jet Tools. She does some really nice flat work too... I looked at her portfolio of furniture pieces.

Of course I always enjoy talking to Nick Cook who was turning some period exercise equipment (Indian clubs and dumbells) for some museum in the Powermatic booth...

Great week at the IWF. If you've never been, you should go if you can. It's a major event in the woodworking industry...
 
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In Norm's defense, I think his goal with turning is just to get the piece done. I read his book Measure Twice, Cut Once, and in many parts he advocated the KISS principle implicitly. That's not to say that he can't be a fantastic turner, but Norm probably has just not gotten around to improving his technique or getting some tips from a master woodturner, since his present techniques get him where he needs to go. Now on the other hand, I have seen him make some pretty elaborate jigs or setups for the power tools, that I think he could have done with a simpler setup or handtool.
 
If you are going to demo turning on national TV, at least get the basics correct!

Some years ago, I cringed when I heard that a NYW program was going to be done on introductory turning. I deliberately tell newcomers to woodturning to NOT watch Norm, due to his nearly complete lack of proper turning technique, even in the broadest sense. Let me say that I have been a devout fan of the New Yankee Workshop since the first day it was broadcast, but in all those years there certainly have been ample opportunities for Mr. Abrams to get some proper turning lessons, and it is clear that he has likely never availed himself of those opportunities. He has such influence in the woodworking community in the thousands of woodworkers emulating him throughout the country that this show likely provides one of the most (...if not THE most) important conduits for woodworking education. This is the de facto role of the New Yankee Workshop, and as such there is somewhat of an inherent responsibility in teaching - if you are going to teach someone to turn (....or use a biscuit joiner, scroll saw, jointer, table saw, whatever....) you had better know how to do it properly yourself! I disagree with Martin's read on the situation - just "getting the job done" is an unacceptable excuse for demonstrating turning (or anything else) improperly; demonstrating techniques correctly is what should be happening on the show - even a KISS mentality does not absolve the educator of his role in teaching things properly, particularly with such a large audience and the inherent influence NYW has on beginning woodworkers. If the point of the show is to demonstrate how turned items are done, he should either follow the Scott Phillips approach, and get a master turner to do the demo, or have Norm spend some time getting taught how to PROPERLY do woodturning (without the 80 grit gouge) BEFORE producing another program so beginners (who will emulate technique at the drop of a wood chip) have at least some chance of doing it right. As much as I enjoy and appreciate Norm's role in promoting all aspects of woodworking, I think that Mr. Morash or WGBH should spring for him to have some lessons in basic turning before producing future projects that aren't purely flat work. I am sure there are many turning instructors, including myself, who would welcome the chance to help him with his technique. Perhaps this is wishful thinking?!?

Rob Wallace
 
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Rob, your point is well taken. Maybe if you write him a letter explaining what you just mentioned and emphasize the safety aspects, Norm will follow-up. From what I have heard he is a pretty reasonable guy. Though maybe he has a thing against turners? 🙄
 
Disagree. If there were only one method of removing wood from a rotating object there wouldn't be so many tools or differences in turning technique. What works without being unsafe is turning. Beyond that, it's up to the turner. That's where innovation comes from, differences and discovery.

Or, if you agree with the contention that only big names know how to turn, and should be considered qualified to demonstrate, please unplug your unisaw and wait for Norm or his authorized representative to visit. Or your lathe if you haven't been favored with instruction by the turner Rob considers qualified.
 
Might as well join in the fray...

I tend to agree that folks can learn on their own, and that there are many different ways to turn...

HOWEVER...

I found it a breath of fresh air when someone made the basics clear to me. When you don't know the difference between scraping and cutting, then you really don't know much. When I chanced on Keith Rowley's book, I stumbled into a good thing. He made the basic principles understandable, so that when something went wrong, I could retrace the steps, and figure it out. Of course once you understand the principles involved you can then "break" the rules, knowing that you are doing so, and knowing why you do so.

If someone is going to be such an influence, then one can't really afford to be a source of mis-information, or incomplete information. It's not that hard to avail oneself of the basics...
 
There are certain basic rules everyone has to follow like safety glasses, clear the tool rest and tool make contact with tool rest first. If you made exceptions; there should be a reason for doing so.

I see no reason why cutting up hill on a spindle (from smaller diameter to larger diameter).

Not everyone has the opportunity to join a local AAW chapter, take a mentoring program. Watching on PBS may be their source of learning.

How many of you have take on a home improvement project after watching how it was done on H&G, DIY or PBS?

How many of you have tried a new dish after watching a cooking show on TV and assumed what you saw was the correct way to cook?

When PBS raises money claiming their programs are educational; we expect more than entertainment.

If they have a "turner" to help the editing; they could have chosen another 2 seconds of videos.

Gordon
 
MichaelMouse wrote:

Disagree. If there were only one method of removing wood from a rotating object there wouldn't be so many tools or differences in turning technique. What works without being unsafe is turning. Beyond that, it's up to the turner. That's where innovation comes from, differences and discovery.

In general, I agree that innovation and discovery result from variation in appraoches, HOWEVER it is necessary to become exposed to basic skills FIRST, before departing into new areas. If you weren't taught how to position the tool rest, or safely mount a blank, the likelihood of having success in turning would be quite low, even if you elect to take a spindle roughing gouge and use it as a scraper on national television. Michael, would you like your surgeon using his or her scalpel "in their own way" departing from methods based on best practice and collective experience of the discipline (....simply because there are many ways to remove human tissue by wielding one of many sharp instruments)?? I suppose you could still call it surgery, since the act of removing bodily tissue was taking place, whether or not it is the most effective or relevant procedure to the task at hand. There are fundamentals in most areas of technique that need to be presented when teaching beginners, and hopefully practiced, if not mastered, by the instructor, before departing into new areas. Experience is the best teacher - without the basic skills, you can't get experience. You need the basics, and these should be emphasized and presented correctly. In my opinion, this is not happening on the New Yankee Workshop when turning is being presented.

MichaelMouse continues:
Or, if you agree with the contention that only big names know how to turn, and should be considered qualified to demonstrate, please unplug your unisaw and wait for Norm or his authorized representative to visit. Or your lathe if you haven't been favored with instruction by the turner Rob considers qualified.

I take umbrage with your misinterpretation of my comments - it is not a matter of me or anyone else determining who is qualified. It is most certainly a matter that if you choose to perform the role of educator, which Norm has done for many years, that you should be at least aware of and competent in presenting the basic skills involved with what you are teaching. Period. I merely gave an example of how Scott Phillips invites recognized experts to demonstrate on The American Woodshop, (...and by the way, Scott has never asked me who he should have on his television program...!!) - OR that Norm should become more proficient in turning if he is to continue teaching these techniques on his show. In no way did I agree (or even mention) that "only big names know how to turn" - many thousands of people know how to turn...... Apparently Mr. Abrams can't fairly be counted among them, and THAT is my opinion. You certainly have the right to differ with it.
The take home message is that if you accept the role of educator, you should be at least minimally competent to explain and demonstrate the basic skills needed to perform the techniques safely and using best practice principles. A test of this concept might be that if one were to poll AAW members whether they would like to have Norm teach a beginners class in woodturning in their chapter, how many affirmative votes could be tallied? (I suspect not many.)

Rob Wallace
 
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